Raptors Discussion: v70| It's off-season time (pre-season vs LAC from Hawaii: Sun Oct 1 @ 10pm ET/7pm PT | SN

[trellaine201]

Wow lucky Celtics. 1st pick in the draft. Yikes

 

[donghabs98]

Wow lucky Celtics. 1st pick in the draft. Yikes

Thanks Brooklyn

 

[Woodman19]

Thanks Brooklyn

**** Brooklyn!

 

[Bluelines]

Thoughts on DeRozen?

I'll admit I don't know the difference between a point guard and a center but I think I know personality types.

Would it be safe to say that DeRozen is more like a Scottie Pippen than a Michael Jordan, by that I mean DeRozen is a very good player, maybe even elite player, but he's is not the type that can carry a team on his back. Will the Raps ever get by the Cavs without a superstar leader besides DeRozen?

Watching the Raps this playoffs, the team looked like it already knew it was going to get beat by the Cavs, it felt like they were missing a leader.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Thoughts on DeRozen?

I'll admit I don't know the difference between a point guard and a center but I think I know personality types.

Would it be safe to say that DeRozen is more like a Scottie Pippen than a Michael Jordan, by that I mean DeRozen is a very good player, maybe even elite player, but he's is not the type that can carry a team on his back. Will the Raps ever get by the Cavs without a superstar leader besides DeRozen?

Watching the Raps this playoffs, the team looked like it already knew it was going to get beat by the Cavs, it felt like they were missing a leader.

Getting that leader will be virtually impossible. The Raptors will need to acquire a higher-end PF and resign Lowry if they want to look like contenders.

 

[trellaine201]

Euroleague?

Question: for some reason I'm watching the euro league final four. Are these players allowed to be drafted? And who makes up these teams? Where do they come from?

Thanks

 

[Bluelines]

Getting that leader will be virtually impossible. The Raptors will need to acquire a higher-end PF and resign Lowry if they want to look like contenders.

What position is DeRozen?

 

[one77]

Would signing Griffin make any sense? This team needs a player of Derozan's calibre if not higher to compete with the top teams in this league.

 

[FreeBird]

Would signing Griffin make any sense? This team needs a player of Derozan's calibre if not higher to compete with the top teams in this league.

Derozan's calibre is the problem, he just isn't that Guy, when you pay the Guy the Max and his abilities don't measure up your in Denial.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

What position is DeRozen?

Shooting guard and often SF in small ball lines. He can be a core guy as he's an elite mid-range scorer and can still develop a passable three-point shot.

I say acquire Blake Griffin to augment that. He will be an elite presence, complement JV and be a solid long-range threat.

 

[AllDay28]

0% chance we get Blake tho

 

[The Nemesis]

Derozan's calibre is the problem, he just isn't that Guy, when you pay the Guy the Max and his abilities don't measure up your in Denial.

Because the "maximum" part of a max contract is an artificially suppressed value based on the cap rather than real free-market-enacted value for relative player talents, lots of players get a max contract without necessarily being in the top tier of player talent. Mike Conley and Al Horford make in the same neighborhood as DeMar and other max deals and they're not ultra-elite players either.

In a capless world LeBron would probably be making like $80m a season and everything else would calibrate from there. But we live in a world where every contract handed out before this off-season is scaled down to top out into the mid $20m range because of cap restrictions. So every conceivable contract that would fit between this hypothetical $80m LeBron deal and $26.5m that everyone but LeBron has plateaued at are squished down to a nice, even playing field.

Nobody's in denial (or randomly capitalizing words for little reason), it's just the mechanics of the system.

To the other points that are here, DeMar doesn't need to be in a small-ball lineup to be a SF. He's perfectly fine at 6'7 to play that role even in the 80s/90s NBA with its stricter, striated C/PF/SF/SG/PG lineups. Hell, he's even more suitable in the modern NBA because in broad strokes the evolution of offensive systems has basically merged the SG and SF positions into a sort of semi-redundant "wing" player profile.

I also wouldn't hold my breath over him developing a 3-point shot. He actually took a big step back this year in his shooting beyond the arc, posting the lowest 3p% since 2011-12 while still settling into the middle of his career rate of launching 3s. He's been in the league 8 years and will be 28 before next season starts. I don't see a 3-point revolution in his future. No matter how hard of a worker he is, he pretty much is what he is at this point: A slashing, attacking, foul-drawing volume-ish scorer who probably would've fit better into the Kobe/Iversion early 00s NBA better than he does now.

 

[The Nemesis]

Shooting guard and often SF in small ball lines. He can be a core guy as he's an elite mid-range scorer and can still develop a passable three-point shot.

I say acquire Blake Griffin to augment that. He will be an elite presence, complement JV and be a solid long-range threat.

I like JV a lot and I had huge hopes for him when he was drafted, but I'm beginning to wonder if the league has just rendered players of his ilk to be dinosaurs. There are almost no true 5s anymore, and unfortunately for the Raptors they rarely seem to be able to get by through playing some sort of counterculture throwback ball with an old-school inside-out lineup. I don't want to see him traded, but I just don't know if there's a place for him on a team that wants to succeed given that almost nobody else in the league with contending dreams employs significant players in his mold.

Question: for some reason I'm watching the euro league final four. Are these players allowed to be drafted? And who makes up these teams? Where do they come from?

Thanks

Yes, players from those teams can be drafted. As I understand it, the Euroleague is sort of like soccer's UEFA Champions League in that it's a collection of top tier teams from various domestic basketball leagues across Europe. Those teams are staffed and run just like any other sports team. Think of it maybe like if the NHL partnered with teh KHL, Swedish SHL, Finnish Liiga, Swiss National League A, German DEL, etc and had a giant super-league where the best teams from all the various domestic hockey leagues got together and played out a season/tournament to crown a grand champion.

European, non-collegiate basketball players are eligible for the draft at 18 and have the advantage that their rights can be held onto while the players continue to play in Europe for a few years, allowing a sort of draft and develop route before signing the player to come to the NBA, kind of more like what we're used to with hockey where most drafted prospects aren't looking to jump into the league immediately.

Valanciunas, for example, was drafted from a Lithuanian club that played in the Euroleague during his tenure.

 

[likeabosski]

Because the "maximum" part of a max contract is an artificially suppressed value based on the cap rather than real free-market-enacted value for relative player talents, lots of players get a max contract without necessarily being in the top tier of player talent. Mike Conley and Al Horford make in the same neighborhood as DeMar and other max deals and they're not ultra-elite players either.

In a capless world LeBron would probably be making like $80m a season and everything else would calibrate from there. But we live in a world where every contract handed out before this off-season is scaled down to top out into the mid $20m range because of cap restrictions. So every conceivable contract that would fit between this hypothetical $80m LeBron deal and $26.5m that everyone but LeBron has plateaued at are squished down to a nice, even playing field.

Nobody's in denial (or randomly capitalizing words for little reason), it's just the mechanics of the system.

To the other points that are here, DeMar doesn't need to be in a small-ball lineup to be a SF. He's perfectly fine at 6'7 to play that role even in the 80s/90s NBA with its stricter, striated C/PF/SF/SG/PG lineups. Hell, he's even more suitable in the modern NBA because in broad strokes the evolution of offensive systems has basically merged the SG and SF positions into a sort of semi-redundant "wing" player profile.

I also wouldn't hold my breath over him developing a 3-point shot. He actually took a big step back this year in his shooting beyond the arc, posting the lowest 3p% since 2011-12 while still settling into the middle of his career rate of launching 3s. He's been in the league 8 years and will be 28 before next season starts. I don't see a 3-point revolution in his future. No matter how hard of a worker he is, he pretty much is what he is at this point: A slashing, attacking, foul-drawing volume-ish scorer who probably would've fit better into the Kobe/Iversion early 00s NBA better than he does now.

Yeah DeRozan is tall enough to play SF full-time. It's just that when the Raptors have three taller guys in the lineup (ie. Valaciunas, Ibaka and Carroll), DeRozan is the SG by default. With Powell as starting SG or Joseph coming off the bench as SG, DeRozan is the SF because he's tall. When DeRozan and Tucker are on the wings, it's practically the same thing since Tucker is 6'6" I believe. The SF is basically just a taller SG. Someone like Cory Joseph who can play SG is too short to be a SF.

PG <-> SG and SF <-> PF are tougher transitions. Because the PG is expected to be more of a playmaker and the SG more of a shooter (this is why Magic Johnson is a PG even though he's 6'9". While he's a great shooter in his own right and has the height to be a PF even, he's an elite playmaker and it's a waste to not have him as the 1). And the PF has to be able to get rebounds, blocks and physically intimidate opponents while the SF has to be skilled (the stretch-4, is the hyrbid of this). PF and C are practically interchangeable from the looks of it.

Players like Giannis Antetokounmpo really blur the lines. He's considered a small forward. But the Bucks don't have a real power forward in their startling line up because Giannis is tall and so it's not necessary to have one. Having a tall skilled SF or guard is an asset in the NBA because it allows you to save a precious roster spot for a small skilled player. In the old NBA, it was enough for a big man to just get boards, block and learn defense (Andrea Bargnani sadly couldn't get that right). But now they want big men with skill.

 

[Vexed]

I find the traditional idea of positions on the floor is shattered what with versatile players and line ups. Sometimes its just impossible to say a guy is a 3 or a 4 or what specific guard spot he holds since your sg's on a lot of teams are so ball dominate like DD or Harden compared to traditional catch and shoot 2's like Klay. Then there is LBJ.. point forward? Point is we sometimes spend a lot of time trying to fit square pegs into round holes

 

[Keato]

I don't really follow basketball, but I do see the highlights at the gym, so I was wondering if people consider the current situation a problem? It looks like Cleveland and GS will make the finals without losing a game, and parity has been an issue for a while it seems. Or is the idea of a finals between two undefeated teams exciting?

 

[Radiohead]

I don't really follow basketball, but I do see the highlights at the gym, so I was wondering if people consider the current situation a problem? It looks like Cleveland and GS will make the finals without losing a game, and parity has been an issue for a while it seems. Or is the idea of a finals between two undefeated teams exciting?

It's been an issue since the league began. Yet ratings are higher than ever.

My guess is that NBA fans are attracted to dominance and legacy. It will never attract the casual viewer though.

 

[trellaine201]

Ya I would put myself in the casual category and as each year passes the less I watch or care. What's the point. The salaries are outrageous and the so called salary cap has more holes in it than most of my socks.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Let's pretend for a moment that Cleveland was promoted to some other superior league for the "immortals", which one of the "mortal" teams would be the best? Toronto, Boston, or Washington. Same rosters they finished the season with. I wish we could see a series between Toronto and Boston to see who would win.

 

[trellaine201]

I'm picking Boston only because I've seen way too many sub par Raps playoff games.

 

[Eyedea]

Bet you never saw a 130-86 loss though

 

[Mitchy]

Bet you never saw a 130-86 loss though

W.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I kinda like seeing Boston getting their ***** whooped. You know that Cleveland is going to win so may as well embarrass Boston.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Our GM Weltman just left to take the big job in Orlando. Is this the culture change Masai spoke of?

 

[hockeywiz542]

our gm weltman just left to take the big job in orlando. Is this the culture change masai spoke of?

the orlando magic have hired toronto raptors general manager jeff weltman as the franchise’s president of basketball operations, league sources told the vertical.

Weltman met with orlando ceo alex martins and ownership on monday, finalizing a five-year deal, league sources said.

orlando officials had been intrigued with cleveland gm david griffin, but moved steadily toward weltman as they became further engaged with his candidacy in recent weeks, league sources said. Weltman has been deeply involved in every aspect of the raptors’ front office under president masai ujiri as toronto became a perennial eastern conference contender.

Weltman will have the ability to hire a general manager who’ll report to him. Matt lloyd, an orlando assistant gm, has been serving as interim gm and could remain with the organization.

weltman has had high-ranking executive jobs with milwaukee and denver and started his career with the los angeles clippers. Weltman joined ujiri in the toronto front office in 2013 after spending five seasons as the assistant gm under general manager john hammond in milwaukee. Weltman has been considered a candidate on the president/gm track for several years now.