Discussion in 'Toronto Maple Leafs' started by The Nemesis, May 8, 2017.
I have no idea where the Raps go from here. And ultimately, does it even really matter? We're headed for a third consecutive Warriors vs. Cavaliers final. That is ridiculous. It illustrates just how lacking in anything resembling parity the NBA product currently produces. This league needs a hard cap. Each of the other three major sports leagues have one or both of the following: a hard cap, or enough game-specific mitigating factors that allow less-skilled teams to compete with more skilled teams. With NBA basketball having been reduced to a ticky-tack, "refs decide what's a foul based on the name on the back of the jersey" game, it simply does not allow for parity. A hard cap would, at least in theory, force players to take pay cuts to ring chase, or else go somewhere that can fit them in under the cap if they wish to maximize their earnings.
Like I said in the other Raptors thread: unless you're a Cavs or Warriors fan, it sucks being a fan, period. Every single year, if you're a Jazz fan, or a Bucks fan, or any of the other 26 or 27 other franchises, you know from day one of the season that your playoff aspirations only last as long as it takes for you to meet Cleveland or Golden State.
As far as the Raps go, Casey needs to be let go. That much is obvious to me. As for the roster itself, I have little love for any of them save Valanciunas. Let Lowry walk, get rid of Carroll, Patterson and Ibaka. Sooner or later they're going to have to address the fact that DeRozan is in a similar situation to the one Phil Kessel found himself on when he was a Leaf: if he's your best player, you're not going anywhere.
I agree with your last paragraph 100%.
IMHO, its rebuild time and the whole team basically should be moved.
I admire Raps diehards. I try, I really do but its such a frustrating sport at the pro level. The rules are nearly impossible to understand.
Agree 100%. Fouls are called on reputation and status. Teams go into series wondering if they'll even challenge teams. It's sad.
As for the raptors, would not be the least bit upset if DD is no longer a member of the team. I can think of a long long list of guys i'd rather to surround a team with.
I get that everyone is upset, and that this is a relatively young fanbase (not in terms of age, but in terms of experience). This is nothing new. Any fanbase that wasn't the Lakers or Celtics in the 80's; Suns fans, Jazz fans, Sonics fans, and Knicks fans in the 90's; anyone who wasn't a Lakers fan in the early 00's experienced the same thing.
The NBA is a superstar driven league, and the eras are dictated as such (Magic\Bird era, Jordan era, Kobe\Shaq era, Miami big three era\LeBron era). Always has been, and always will be. Suck it up.
As for the roster as currently constructed; I love Kyle, he's meant a lot to the franchise. He's also a former tubby dude who's going to be 32 next year. Fare thee well.
I let Serge walk as well. He has been a rapidly depreciating asset since he peaked in 13/14.
You have to make a decision on the coach, and the mix of personnel to determine how you are going to play going forward. You're going to have a tough time not shooting threes in the League as it is now. I believe you can win with Demar, but you need to insulate him with people who can a) play defense b) shoot threes c) are not zombified husks of their former selves (i.e. Carroll, Ibaka).
The nice thing is its a young man's league and father time remains undefeated. Scout your butt off, draft well, and continue building.
Fine, if you enjoy getting spanked by those super teams every year, you find that exciting, then that's good for you. I don't find that exciting. There is a reason why NBA is 3rd on my list of leagues I follow by far.
Emotions aside, the Raptors flaws are glaring and not that complicated. Shooting, shooting, and more shooting. Their offence generates an abundance of open looks for guys not Lowry or Derozan and there isn't anybody on the roster who can drain an open look from outside with any consistency. Fix that huge weakness and the series looks very different. The amount of open looks bricked was insane and when that happens it allows the defences to just swarm our stars.
I try and bring back Lowry if its 3yrs, anymore than that, I walk. I try and bring back Ibaka too. Beginning of the season I though PP was a lock to resign but I've totally flipped on him. CoJo (If Lowry stays), Val and Carroll are all on the block. If you keep the big 3 and surround them with outside threats then there is something here.
In regards to parity, its a tired discussion really. I get it frustrates some but the reason the NBA is so big and so popular is because of how star driven the league is. It isn't going to change so we might as well discuss the Raptors in the context of NBA realities rather than with wishful thinking.
I am just trying to understand something: you're saying that you would be ok with the Raptors always making the playoffs but getting spanked by a super team every year? How is that enjoyable? And why should I keep following? Just asking. I am genuinely trying to find reason why I shouldn't abandon all hope especially with the Leafs possibly going onto big things. Are you saying that we should just accept it and just enjoy the Raptors making the playoffs?
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. I say we load up with perimeter shooters this off season.
Do you like basketball or not? I think the Raptors have super team quality players but the support around them is woeful. Look at the Cavs. Sure LBJ is a beast and Kyrie is excellent but in the end its the work of Korver, Frye, Shumpert, Tristan on the glass and others that completely bury teams and who completely buried us. That team has shooters at every position (same as the Warriors) and that makes it impossible to key in defensively on star players.
But if your interest is completely determined on whether your team is going to win a champion next season then I don't know what to tell you. Its not a cap problem. The Raptors are one of the biggest spenders in the league. After Clev, it goes LAC, Portland, Toronto and Memphis round out the top 5. All I'm saying is that the NBA as it is draws in far far more people than the NHL's parity and that gap began to grow between the two leagues when the NHL moved away from the same model in the 90's.
If it's not for you then I can't convince you otherwise but my original point generally was that the Raptors aren't anywhere near a 'blow it all up' point in the context of today's NBA.
I like the Raptors. I hate seeing them getting beat soundly in the playoffs by Cleveland. It hurts. I am just saying it would be nice to have a chance to win a championship. It gets tiring being an also ran. That's all.
I agree with you 100% on that.
And yet, its #2 (among professional leagues) with a bullet only behind the NFL in a country of 330+ million.
Okay. I will totally admit my virginity when it comes to this sport, but this is something that kind of bugs me and I've said this in regards to hockey a lot.
While I respect the fact that you want to go get a championship (and you know. get paid) - are you seriously going to just leave a team that pretty much treats you like a star.. and come playoff time you turn into a complete ghost - Kyle Lowry? (I was reading in the paper this morning he might opt out, and go to the West. and i am going to assume by West he means San Antonio, Golden State, or somewhere else). but why not be here and help this team be great. Especially when (turned ankle aside) - 9x10 you're barely anywhere to be seen.
i do like what Diamond Joe said. So if they can try to rectify this - I hope they can, but it seems that Masai (and the new GM guy) really needs to crap or get off the pot. Decide to go for it and spend the money to do so - or to start selling assets and get some talent in the draft.
Seems like Lowry is gone but if we also move Carroll that leaves us with nearly $65M in cap space if we are rolling with 110M next year. that is essentially room to max two players or add a lot of depth. Exciting summer, main goal is to add a PG though. Jrue and Hill are the two FA PGs I would look at but they're both Injury prone, however they would come at half the price Lowry Paul etc would come at and are younger
We showed that we can win without Lowry in the regular season, and we showed that we can lose with him in the playoffs. He's been a warrior, but it's time to move on.
We won't be able to move Carroll without giving up something good as an enticement - he's basically a cap dump at this point.
Lowry should go to Utah. i think he can really solidify that group, though I'm not sure if they can sign him and keep Hayward.
I'd actually be interested to see Lowry in Milwaukee but I don't think they would ever spend the cash.
Lowry to San Antonio would make them a legitimate threat to Golden State. He's obviously a top player, but his 3 point shooting would also help their offence a ton and possibly help LMA's game as well. He and Kawhi would be a deadly 1-2 punch. I'm not sure about their cap situation.
It would suck to lose an asset like Lowry (and even Serge) for nothing.
They could just keep Patty Mills, who is an equal 3-point shooter and will be much cheaper. Wouldn't surprise me if they brought back George Hill as well. They run their offense through Kawhi now, and don't really play in the half-court with a traditional ball dominating PG like they used to.
As for Kyle and Serge, I'll be upset if they saddle themselves with those contracts. If I'm spending that kind of money, I'd rather go underwhelming at the point, and go in for Hayward and run the offense through him and Demar, surrounding them with shooters (Redick, Ingles, Miles, Snell) as role players. And before anyone mentions defense; this team was putrid defensively for about two calendar months, and couldn't stop the Cavs to save their lives.
You guys already know where he's going. That's got "Colangelo-Uh-oh" written all over it.
For Lowry to go to San Antonio they need to let Mills walk, stretch waive Parker and trade Danny Green. Or trade LMA (which wouldn't be a terrible option that guy is soft).
Either way, wouldn't make much sense to me. Denver, post-CP3 Clippers or Philly are the three non-Toronto favourites.
I mean, with the way the Cavs shot the three, I do wonder if its worth just keeping two wings who can kind of try to make LeBron work (PJ + one more), and then just absolutely load up on shooters and make it a three point contest.
If DeMar keeps improving as a distributor (a likely scenario to me considering how he keeps improving every year), I think it could be a really effective offense considering he's one of the elite drivers in the league. Just need someone who doesn't immediately freeze the ball when he gets DeMar's pass out of the trap *COUGHSERGECOUGH*
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