USACHL: New Junior League?

[Barclay Donaldson]

Two more articles, hot off the press. It seems like Heisler and the Death Pool are agreeing on something. That's gotta be one heck of a gongshow to get them to agree on anything. It would have to be one heck of a gongshow to get Heisler to turn 180 on it after padding his wallet with their marketing dollars.

DAILY DISH: MONDAY (S)MASH

The Death Pool – The USACHL Devestation Spreading

 

[Rgvhockeyfan]

Two more articles, hot off the press. It seems like Heisler and the Death Pool are agreeing on something. That's gotta be one heck of a gongshow to get them to agree on anything. It would have to be one heck of a gongshow to get Heisler to turn 180 on it after padding his wallet with their marketing dollars.

DAILY DISH: MONDAY (S)MASH

The Death Pool – The USACHL Devestation Spreading

Heh heh... Look out Bill you've given Stephen a massive hard-on...

 

[Rgvhockeyfan]

Truth be known Fridays 3 on 3 was a turn off combined with a $13 ticket (no senior citizen vet student) discounts were allowed vs an $11 ticket (I know it's only 2 bucks but for what I received it should have been $9 or less) plus 3/4 of the arena was roped off...

My Saturday's 74-72 aggies 7 overtime victory was the better choice anyways...

I'll prolly go to the Dec 11 and 12th bees game if its still alive and full arena is open...and if its 5 on 5 but yea that 3 on 3 was a turn off...

But honestly I don't think it was a planned 3 on 3 thing but when they realized how many players they had it was too late to cancel the game..

But yea this thing is crashing and burning.

One more comment...I don't think Bill is taking the money and running with it as said because its going through the State farm box office and they are grabbing their fees first which is prolly at least 100% of what's showing up...

There's a lot of turd bombs coming from both sides and the truth is prolly never going to be known...

 

[GoalieEd]

It’s been a real back and forth on the USACHL fan Facebook page. Heisler is on there talking about what he knows and boosters/billets are getting mad and saying him and other advisors are the problem by pulling their players.

Worth a read as there was a lot that has come out I didn’t have a clue about.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

It’s been a real back and forth on the USACHL fan Facebook page. Heisler is on there talking about what he knows and boosters/billets are getting mad and saying him and other advisors are the problem by pulling their players.

Worth a read as there was a lot that has come out I didn’t have a clue about.

Can you post some photos, Ed? I can’t seem to find it. I’ve never known Heisler to back down from anybody and if the people on the page are half as crazy as our friendly neighborhood USACHL Mouthpiece, then it sounds like a good scrap.

 

[GoalieEd]

They just kicked him out of their “group”. A few snapshots got saved....but it is hard to string them on a cell phone. Let me see what I can do with a PC.

 

[GoalieEd]

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[JMCx4]

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Only for those with Facebook accounts.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

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That works great, thanks Ed! You're local and said you've been to some games? Have you heard anything about some of things mentioned, like Wichita Falls being open to another team and league, once this one fails? I'm fairly certain the Wildcats of the NAHL were owned by a guy with telecommunications company and were operated at a loss for a while, but the owner just used it as a tax write-off. I think the team was $30 million in the hole before he closed shop.

Heisler also said that Laredo and RGV would both be good for the NAHL. I don't think the NAHL is expanding any time soon, they've made a big point about how having 4 divisions of 6 teams is perfect for scheduling and about how the number of stable teams has increased. Your thoughts on any of this?

 

[VikingAv]

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Holy smokes, what a gongshow

All that crap was actually very well summed up in one post;
"It's the sunken cost fallacy in action. That means doing anything and villifying anyone possible to justify continued support for this league."

Just like I mentioned my worries were earlier in this thread; This gongshow of a league is going to deter those communities from venturing into hockey leagues down the road and with that hinder the expansion of this great sport. All because a f***ing con man gets to roam the streets and do his thing

 

[Rgvhockeyfan]

Holy smokes, what a gongshow

All that crap was actually very well summed up in one post;
"It's the sunken cost fallacy in action. That means doing anything and villifying anyone possible to justify continued support for this league."

Just like I mentioned my worries were earlier in this thread; This gongshow of a league is going to deter those communities from venturing into hockey leagues down the road and with that hinder the expansion of this great sport. All because a ****ing con man gets to roam the streets and do his thing

A part I don't get is I'm sure these arenas should run a credit check before they sign the contract with Billy D's, there's no way 3 arenas could pass on that step...prolly that's why the 5th and 6th teams pulled out...again there's a lot of guessing going on...

 

[Rgvhockeyfan]

That works great, thanks Ed! You're local and said you've been to some games? Have you heard anything about some of things mentioned, like Wichita Falls being open to another team and league, once this one fails? I'm fairly certain the Wildcats of the NAHL were owned by a guy with telecommunications company and were operated at a loss for a while, but the owner just used it as a tax write-off. I think the team was $30 million in the hole before he closed shop.

Heisler also said that Laredo and RGV would both be good for the NAHL. I don't think the NAHL is expanding any time soon, they've made a big point about how having 4 divisions of 6 teams is perfect for scheduling and about how the number of stable teams has increased. Your thoughts on any of this?

We're too far away and dwendling interest..these Jr. Leagues really aren't as exciting as the original CHL. They are kids, not as talented or sized as the CHL and fighting is discouraged in the NAHL. It went from a five guys burger to a plain McDonald's kids burger with no fries drink or suprise toy.

I knew it wouldn't work. Time to turn st farm arena into the finest flea market in Texas...

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

A part I don't get is I'm sure these arenas should run a credit check before they sign the contract with Billy D's, there's no way 3 arenas could pass on that step...prolly that's why the 5th and 6th teams pulled out...again there's a lot of guessing going on...

As I've said before, since the only news about the league is released through HFboards or Facebook, all we can do is guess. If the league made a release other than "the boat isn't sinking, the water level is just rising" or just generally had their act together then we wouldn't have to. As for the arenas not doing their due diligence, consider this.

Kozuback, who is part owner of the USACHL along with Bill, went to city councils to build brand new arenas and to let his company run them during the mid-2000s. He managed to get about 10 places to accept, more or less depending on who you count as accepting all of his propositions. His idea was the arenas would house a main tenant in the old CHL that he owned and his management company books the rest of the dates. Good in theory, but even a little research it would take to figure out it was a bust. Any of a demographic, logistic, or even a quick think-about-it study would've shown the arenas would be too big to rent out for small-time acts and too small for big name acts. They were poorly located too and sat empty for the 300 some nights hockey wasn't in the building. In a few years, most of the CHL teams folded and the city council was left with a brand new, mid-size arena without a main tenant that now functioned as massive bird poop collectors and Kozuback's company fleeing from the scene. Lawsuits followed.

What does this mean? I hate to use the word "con" because if people are that level of stupid they deserve to be punished. They should've done their research rather than blindly saying yes and unfortunately that's the only way people learn. I'll use "convinced." If there were ~10 cities that were convinced by Kozuback do something as major and foolhardy as what I stated above, than I wouldn't put it past 3 arenas to not do their fair research this time. I'm not sure if it's the desperation that comes with needing a major tenant, of which I don't think any of WF, RVG, or Laredo have, it being a non-traditional hockey area and not knowing how successful hockey is generally done, were sold on the "get past year 1 and we're set," or if they were just stupid.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

We're too far away and dwendling interest..these Jr. Leagues really aren't as exciting as the original CHL. They are kids, not as talented or sized as the CHL and fighting is discouraged in the NAHL. It went from a five guys burger to a plain McDonald's kids burger with no fries drink or suprise toy.

I knew it wouldn't work. Time to turn st farm arena into the finest flea market in Texas...

The CHL was low-low minor pro hockey. Any team in the current USHL would smoke them. I'd say the top half of the NAHL would still probably beat them, and the other half would give them a run for their money. Yes, they're kids. But, hockey is getting younger, faster, more skilled, a look at any level of hockey would prove that, especially the NHL. And if you think it's becoming softer, the NHL still has a fight every other game (.6 per game) and increased number of hits, becoming more concentrated along the boards and fewer open ice hits.

The NAHL cleaned up its act in recent years, it was known as the Non Advancement Hockey League for a while and it's where big, chippy kids went to fight until they aged out. You would've liked it.

But, if it takes big, unskilled, older players who aren't going anywhere with their careers to sell hockey to these markets, then give them a division in the Federal Hockey League. They'll get to watch staged fights, players on $50 per game chucking nucks, and all of the glorified beer league that comes with "ole time hockey" that we love to glorify so much, although few people want once they see it. And if those teams last as long as these USACHL teams, they'll have a longer life span than most Fed teams.

 

[Rovitz707]

Not sure if anyone else saw this, but the Lawmen are done. How long can this last? Just three teams left.

 

[GoalieEd]

That works great, thanks Ed! You're local and said you've been to some games? Have you heard anything about some of things mentioned, like Wichita Falls being open to another team and league, once this one fails? I'm fairly certain the Wildcats of the NAHL were owned by a guy with telecommunications company and were operated at a loss for a while, but the owner just used it as a tax write-off. I think the team was $30 million in the hole before he closed shop.

Heisler also said that Laredo and RGV would both be good for the NAHL. I don't think the NAHL is expanding any time soon, they've made a big point about how having 4 divisions of 6 teams is perfect for scheduling and about how the number of stable teams has increased. Your thoughts on any of this?

For the first part, the guy who owned the Wichita Falls wildcats, which was a NAHL team, was indeed owned cells-u-more and a bunch of other businesses and had a kid that was interested in hockey at one point. He got divorced and eventually cut his losses.

There was indeed interest in the USACHL by other areas if the promise of reduced travel costs could be realized - but wisely no one wanted to be part of the 1st year experiment.

The fact is the venue was vacant quite a bit In Wichita Falls. Prior to this they had an arena football team (that failed), and now advertising has just started for an indoor soccer team. Spectra which I think is related to the Flyers Spectracore runs the arena and has been under pressure by the city to turn it profitable. The die-Hards will come to the “next” hockey team but without ice for hours in any direction, the children growing up will have limited exposure to any ice events. There is no local rink here other then the 6,000 seat arena (the beer drop in is done the minute the ice melts).

 

[Rgvhockeyfan]

The CHL was low-low minor pro hockey. Any team in the current USHL would smoke them. I'd say the top half of the NAHL would still probably beat them, and the other half would give them a run for their money. Yes, they're kids. But, hockey is getting younger, faster, more skilled, a look at any level of hockey would prove that, especially the NHL. And if you think it's becoming softer, the NHL still has a fight every other game (.6 per game) and increased number of hits, becoming more concentrated along the boards and fewer open ice hits.

The NAHL cleaned up its act in recent years, it was known as the Non Advancement Hockey League for a while and it's where big, chippy kids went to fight until they aged out. You would've liked it.

But, if it takes big, unskilled, older players who aren't going anywhere with their careers to sell hockey to these markets, then give them a division in the Federal Hockey League. They'll get to watch staged fights, players on $50 per game chucking nucks, and all of the glorified beer league that comes with "ole time hockey" that we love to glorify so much, although few people want once they see it. And if those teams last as long as these USACHL teams, they'll have a longer life span than most Fed teams.

All I'm saying is it ain't gonna work here anymore...

oh hell wait....what was I thinking...

Jr hockeys owners purpose is to lose money for tax write offs....

Hell then this is a
GREAT LOCATION!!!

 

[sbkbghockey]

...The die-Hards will come to the “next” hockey team but without ice for hours in any direction, the children growing up will have limited exposure to any ice events. There is no local rink here other then the 6,000 seat arena (the beer drop in is done the minute the ice melts).

That's actually another big flaw for Billy D and his original CHL. The work to build the league and it's venues back in the 1990s should have also focused on grass roots local hockey orgs. Building a rec rink either in each city or attached to the arenas would have added a few million to each arena project but would have "paid off" long-term by continued growing the fan bases with every new season and a new crop of youth players. Giving the communities a regular, year-round or mostly year-round rec ice sports venue could have established longstanding orgs that would be paying back with fans now. If the CHL still failed like it did, the rec orgs and rec facilities could have continued growing the markets for juniors and leagues like the NAHL, USHL.

 

[GoalieEd]

When I went to my adult drop in at the WF venue, both the off-ice officials and the players themselves were there waiting for the WF coach Jessie Davis. I didn’t hear anything directly but to the off-ice officials it was a “stay the course” type message.

Oh, it is confirmed there is now the ability to sharpen skates for the team.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

oh hell wait....what was I thinking...

Jr hockeys owners purpose is to lose money for tax write offs....

USHL makes money. Nice arenas in medium-sized midwestern cities where they’re the premier source of hockey as well as entertainment means they make a good living. NAHL is a mixed bag because travel costs a pretty penny and the towns are a lot smaller and spread out. The goal for the team is to break even, genius. But, like Ed said for the WF owner, his kid played and he could eat the losses because he had the money and could write it off until it became too much. It wasn’t his financial goal to put the franchise $30 million in the hole. Look at the links I sent in a previous post. Dozens of teams have relocated or folded. People don’t realize how hard it could be to run the team and have it not work out for reasons beyond their control. Philly Rebels spent tens of thousands on advertising for 2-3 years but couldn’t draw flies despite being one of the top teams in the division. The market just didn’t care about junior hockey.

Oh, it is confirmed there is now the ability to sharpen skates for the team.

Any word on how many WF players remain to have their skates sharpened on it, or the Warrior stick shipment that should’ve been in months ago?

 

[salibandy2581]

Wichita Falls cancelled their game tonight against RGV. No word on tomorrow. The excuse is a "bus scheduling conflict." Right.

Color me shocked. I had predicted to a few friends in the WF hockey community that this jokeshow of a league wouldn't play a game after November.

As for the previous franchise, it was in the hole when it folded, though I would believe $30 mil to be a gross overestimate. Owner's kid only played in the youth hockey levels, never with the Wildcats. Highest he ever got to was five games in the NA3EHL with Jersey Shore back in 2014-15.

 

[GoalieEd]

“Wichita Falls Mayor Stephen Santellana said Friday aside from bus trouble, the city and Multi-Purpose Events Center has had trouble getting payment from the team's owner.
He said typically the MPEC - owned by the city and managed by Spectra - expects payment from the team two or three days after they play a game.
Recently, Santellana said, there has been a number of late payments and Spectra decided to put their foot down and enforce the lockout.”
Cancellation of Wichita Falls Force hockey game comes amid payment concerns

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Texas Lawmen fold, USACHL still ‘full steam ahead’

This joins it from the Laredo Morning Times. Heisler is mentioned, albeit not by name, in the article. Sounds like the people in the league were counting on him to get it off the ground and are placing its plummet squarely on his shoulders.

 

[GoalieEd]

MPEC manager: Weekend hockey games cancelled, money owed didn't arrive in time
All weekend games canceled by Spectra:
“Whether the Killer Bees arrive in Wichita Falls, the Force won't be playing in the coliseum, said Michael Tipton, general manager of Spectra, at least not this weekend.
"We needed to have payment by 5 p.m. today," Tipton said, "and that didn't happen. I do have a wire transfer that is pending, but I can't accept a pending payment. Things can happen to a pending payment."
The owner may not like that decision, Tipton said, "but that's where we are right now. As of right now, the weekend games are also cancelled."”

 

[GoalieEd]

From the news station that actually streams the force games....... WF Force at odds with MPEC over pay