Tennis: US Open 2018

[me2]

You're entitled to your preference, but I will say this: It's inherent to the sport, not the players. Different forms of athletic performance require different types of mental focus and therefore different environments. The same atmosphere may be energezing when playing American football but destructive while doing e.g. high level gymnastics.
Many Pro-Tennis players are European or South-American and among those quite a few have been playing football (soccer), sometimes at a relatively high level, like e.g. Thiem or Nadal. Now, an American football crowd in the NFL for example, as loud as they may be, are simply a piece of cake in terms of hostility compared to a European football crowd, where there's things like constant chants, hooliganism and people throwing stuff on the field.
So those players know much worse than what they experience at any tennis tournament, yet they are still distracted when it happens during tennis matches. Tennis with a football atmosphere simply wouldn't be the same sport.

It was best summer up (and this was years ago too) the other 3 majors draw tennis fans, the US Open draws sports fan.

 

[darko]

That Judge is just a stuck up snob. He is hard on the rules to an absurd degree. Has nothing to do with "sexism" He gave Djokovic a warning last Wimbeldon for simply dropping his racket. Not even breaking it (While Nishikori did the same and got nothing)

Difference is, Djokovic didn't keep going and arguing with the ref past the commercial break.

I also saw people saying that when McEnroe does his antics he was loved......WHAT?? That's some huge revisionist history. He was hated during his playing time...players tried beating him up in game lol. He only become loveable after he retired.

Hahaha yeah lol @ people loving McEnroe.

 

[sfvega]

Yeesh, that was ugly. I felt absolutely terrible for Osaka. She played an incredible tournament, showed zero sign of nerves in her first major final, and most likely would have won anyway, only to have what should have been one of the best moments of her life stolen from her. Judging by her age and ability I don't think this is going to be her last win, so I really hope the next one ends better for her.

Regarding Serena, everyone seems to want to turn this into a hero or villain situation, but I dunno, is it possible to admit that she has very legitimate grievances with regard to how she's been treated by tennis establishment (and that most likely affects her perception of incidents like last night) AND that she also has a history of not reacting to losing all that well? Like, there's zero question that she's had to deal with a LOT of crap that no white and/or male player of her stature would have had to, and that there have been times when she's been genuinely treated unfairly (didn't the challenge system literally become a thing due to a match where she was repeatedly screwed over on line calls?). But also, I don't think it's a coincidence that these meltdowns always seem to happen in similar situations -- when she runs into a player who's white hot and she can't find an answer for their play, whether it be Clijsters, Stosur, or now Osaka. She's an icon and is rightfully lauded for many things, but she's also a person with flaws. Two things can be true.

When it comes to the chair umpire, I agree with a comment I saw that tennis officials desperately need to have some sort of get together to iron out just what is expected of them. Because while there's always some degree of interpretation involved in these things, right now there seems to be way to much that depends on the umpire's discretion. Yes, according to the rulebook all three of Serena's violations last night were justified, but I can understand why people would get upset when the whole situation unfolded in the same tournament where a different chair umpire literally climbed out of his chair to give a pep talk to a player. I do think some of the accusations being thrown at Carlos Ramos are unfair though, since people who follow tennis closely all seem to agree that he's known to be a stickler for the rules, and will basically call any infraction he sees regardless of who, when, or where. It was actually interesting that Serena's coach brought up Nadal in his interview, because I don't know about coaching violations but I'm almost certain that Ramos is one of the few umpires I've seen call Rafa on his (often egregious) time violations. Personally I'd prefer an strict, but consistently strict official to one who picks and chooses when to penalize infractions, which only leads to situations where players get used to getting away with things and feel like they're being treated unfairly when they actually get called on them (I've also never agreed with the idea of officials "playing to the score/situation" -- their job should be to enforce the rules, not decide when and where the rules apply). That being said, I also saw Michael Farber point out that the best officials tend to be the ones who are able to de-escalate tense situations rather than escalating them, and I don't think it would have hurt Ramos to have given Serena a soft warning before the third violation, even if it was just a reminder that the next one would cost her a game.

I don't think anyone is taking away from Serena's accomplishments. I think saying that "both things can be true" is stating the overly obvious. In taking up for Serena, people have consistently mentioned that she is an all time great, involved in a lot of causes, clean record off the court. That's all true, and fine. But it isn't the issue being discussed. The issue is, while you could argue that others may not have called all 3 violations, that this referee has a reputation for being a by the book guy. And these 3 violations aren't really pulled out of thin air, they're all easy to see. It doesn't feel like Serena was getting screwed here, it seemed like she came a bit unhinged (albeit less unhinged than she did in 2009, when her only excuse was again that she didn't act egregiously but that others act more egregiously.) I don't think that she should be getting the benefit of the doubt here after the way she continued to talk down to the umpire. You can't be the perpetrator AND the victim of your own long-winded tirade. It just doesn't make sense. Serena is the best women's player ever, she is a player and personality that transcends tennis. She's stunningly successful in everything she does. But here, she wasn't just in the wrong, she didn't just fail to take accounability for it, but she doubled down on painting herself as the victim any myriad of ways after the benefit of time to cool off. I think it is embarrassing that she would conduct herself like that, but it is just a blip on a long, mostly overly-positive career.

 

[Dr Pepper]

It was made doubly worse by the fact that Serena nearly spoiled Osaka's shining moment as a young star, winning her first major only to feel the need to apologize to a sea of booing fans.

Apologizing for beating Serena. How messed up is that?

To her credit, I think Serena tried her best during the ceremony to dissuade the crowd and get them to shut up, but she started that whole mess to begin with.

 

[Jack Straw]

Doesn't change the fact that it's considered disrespectful, very bad form and breach of etiquette. You just don't do those things.

I don't like it myself, but the tournament has encouraged this for many years now. They want the US Open to be "different". I think it's stupid but the players all know what to expect.

 

[jj cale]

It was made doubly worse by the fact that Serena nearly spoiled Osaka's shining moment as a young star, winning her first major only to feel the need to apologize to a sea of booing fans.

Apologizing for beating Serena. How messed up is that?

To her credit, I think Serena tried her best during the ceremony to dissuade the crowd and get them to shut up, but she started that whole mess to begin with.

Watching Osakas interview with a tsn reporter after the match and she was almost crying and spoke with a soft dull monotone that didn't even hint at happiness, just dissapointment really. It looked like her spirit was crushed

It was weird, have never seen anything like it, Serenas antics basically robbed her of the accolades and joy she should have had in that moment.

The ump needs too apologize to you Serena? no Serena, you need to apologize to your opponent.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Watching Osakas interview with a tsn reporter after the match and she was almost crying and spoke with a soft dull monotone that didn't even hint at happiness, just dissapointment really. It looked like her spirit was crushed

It was weird, have never seen anything like it, Serenas antics basically robbed her of the accolades and joy she should have had in that moment.

The ump needs too apologize to you Serena? no Serena, you need to apologize to your opponent.

I'd like to think she did, when they were embracing before and during the ceremony. Serena must've been aware that her antics would have had that effect, unfortunately coming at the worst possible time for Osaka and staining what should've been a great moment.

There's a photo running around that I can't track down at the moment, showing Osaka lifting the winner's trophy but the pain in her face is blatant.

 

[jj cale]

I'd like to think she did, when they were embracing before and during the ceremony. Serena must've been aware that her antics would have had that effect, unfortunately coming at the worst possible time for Osaka and staining what should've been a great moment.

There's a photo running around that I can't track down at the moment, showing Osaka lifting the winner's trophy but the pain in her face is blatant.

It's too bad that had to all go down in such an important match,especially a persons first grand slam win.

I'll look at this tournament with a bad vibe attached to it as the years go by.

 

[Better Call Sal]

I feel so bad for her, you can tell she's clearly shy and not used to the exposure. To apologize for winning as she did and admitting she felt kind of sad based on the crowd reaction, it's very unfair for how she would experience her first major win.

I'm sure it'll all set in eventually for her and she'll get to enjoy it, though. Seems like a good natured kid.

 

[Marmoset]

I'm still quite upset by this a couple of days later, now that my friends are sharing stories and tweets about it all over social media. Most of whom have probably never watched a tennis match.

Someone who behaved in a completely selfish and irresponsible way on a massive public stage is being made out as a hero and a role model, and a champion of women's rights. The umpire probably won't be fired, but he will likely have his career significantly impacted by this as the WTA will not want to put him in the chair for major matches.

Serena not only needed to know better in terms of her behaviour that lead to the penalties in the first place, but she needed to know better in terms of understanding the firestorm she could start by crying sexism.

And now, millions hold her up as a role model and a fighter for women's rights. No, Serena is legendary tennis player, but one who showed herself (again) to be selfish and unable to control herself when she is losing a tennis match. A real role model and champion for women should be someone like her sister Venus who acts with so much class and has overcome a serious disease to be able to continue her career, or Victoria Azarenka who is trying to keep playing pro tennis despite being in a nasty custody battle that restricts her ability to travel. Those are the types of women in tennis that should be held up as example, not someone who is a sore loser and makes everything about herself.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

23 Slams gives you the right to speak your mind. Take Serena out of the Final and most casual fans don't show up or even watch the Final on TV. It's fine for men to be rude, but not for a black woman. Then all the non-tennis fans come in here and attack her character, although they've nevet come in here and done the same to a white man. It was sexist. Nuff said.

The umpire did not see the big picture, used poor judgement, and I hope this impacts his career, because it should.

 

[Dr Pepper]

23 Slams gives you the right to speak your mind. Take Serena out of the Final and most casual fans don't show up or even watch the Final on TV. Nuff said.

It's one thing to speak your mind, and quite another to throw a temper tantrum when things aren't going your way.

Serena still needs to learn the difference, apparently.

Also, I don't think her past accomplishments earn her the "right" to scream bloody murder at an umpire when she's solely to blame.

If she had played out the match without incident - a match that the younger and faster Osaka won in straight sets - and then simply aired her grievances afterwards, this story wouldn't be nearly as overblown as it is.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

Coaching during a match happens all the time. The umpire is supposed to defuse the situation. He put his ego first and tarnished the match. Osaka didn't want to win this way.

White men have done the same or worse many times in many sports since this board opened and have not been treated this way on the board. I hope the Judges will not reply to this post. I hope instead they will look inward and ask themselves why they think and behave the way they do.

 

[Dr Pepper]

White men have done the same or worse many times in many sports since this board opened and have not been treated this way on the board. I hope the Judges will not reply to this post. I hope instead they will look inward and ask themselves why they think and behave the way they do.

I'm fairly certain that if Novak Djokovic had a lengthy meltdown during his final similar to Serena's, he'd be just as ridiculed on here. Rightfully so, too.

Probably wouldn't have the same groundswell of support in social media, though, seeing as how he's white, male, and European.

Plus he's definitely not a mom, so there's that.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

23 Slams gives you the right to speak your mind. Take Serena out of the Final and most casual fans don't show up or even watch the Final on TV. It's fine for men to be rude, but not for a black woman. Then all the non-tennis fans come in here and attack her character, although they've nevet come in here and done the same to a white man. It was sexist. Nuff said.

The umpire did not see the big picture, used poor judgement, and I hope this impacts his career, because it should.

What a crock of shit.

Serena acted like an entitled brat. It has nothing to do with her race or gender. This same ump has penalized Murray and Kyrgios previously for similar things.

Serena is maybe the greatest athlete of all time in terms of dominance, but she is a sore loser and always has been.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

Federer said F you to the umpire in 2009 and didn't lose a point. DOUBLE STANDARD!

Serena is women's tennis and no one cares about it when she's gone. The ratings prove it.

 

[Marmoset]

Coaching during a match happens all the time. The umpire is supposed to defuse the situation. He put his ego first and tarnished the match. Osaka didn't want to win this way.

White men have done the same or worse many times in many sports since this board opened and have not been treated this way on the board. I hope the Judges will not reply to this post. I hope instead they will look inward and ask themselves why they think and behave the way they do.

There are all kinds of videos on Youtube of various players getting called for violations - men and women, black and white. Serena is just one of many, she is not unique in this. Some of those cases were the exact same umpire. As mentioned, Novak Djokovic, a white man who just won the men's title, got similar treatment.

It is completely unfair to call this an instance of sexism and just ignore all of the past cases out there that contradict the viewpoint. The only differences are that most of those other cases occurred on much smaller stages than a US Open final, and many of them involved players the average person has never heard of. Hardly anyone cares if player X ranked 55 in the world gets penalized by an umpire at a tournament in Zagreb or Mumbai or wherever.

I agree that the umpire could have done some things better, but that is no excuse. Bad officiating happens in all sports. In hockey sometimes the referees let everything go, sometimes they call every hook. The player needs to adapt to that. In the NBA, if you get a technical foul, even if it's for something ridiculous, you need to be careful not to get another one. Serena lost control, simple as that, and that has nothing to do with sexism and everything to do with her.

When people cry out about sexism over something like this, it cheapens and demeans that term for the millions of other cases in the world where women are truly fighting against it.

 

[NJDevs26]

What a crock of ****.

Serena acted like an entitled brat. It has nothing to do with her race or gender. This same ump has penalized Murray and Kyrgios previously for similar things.

Serena is maybe the greatest athlete of all time in terms of dominance, but she is a sore loser and always has been.

Both things can be true...the umpire can be a Cowboy Joe West or Angel Hernandez type umpire unneccesarily inserting himself into the match (which he seems to be judging by the fact he seems to like to call out the big boys and girls on campus - he also called Nadal for a delay of game on a serve in the same US Open) but that doesn't give Serena license to throw a five-year old fit, refuse to play for several minutes and accuse everyone of sexism.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Both things can be true...the umpire can be a Cowboy Joe West or Angel Hernandez type umpire unneccesarily inserting himself into the match (which he seems to be judging by the fact he seems to like to call out the big boys and girls on campus - he also called Nadal for a delay of game on a serve in the same US Open) but that doesn't give Serena license to throw a five-year old fit, refuse to play for several minutes and accuse everyone of sexism.

I agree.

The thing about rules in sports is they are very often enforced differently from game to game, and ump to ump (or ref to ref), there is very rarely any consistency. This is certainly an issue. I don't think the ump in this case made any wrong calls by the letter of the rules, it's just that other umps in this situation would have been more lenient. This is a fair criticism.

The accusations of sexism and the mother stuff are just way out of wack though. This umpire has a reputation of being a stickler for the rules. Serena lost her cool and it cost her, there is no grand conspiracy or sexism or anything else. If you want to argue that the ump called things to strictly that's fine, but by the letter of the law he was not wrong to make the calls that he did.

 

[Kurtz]

Federer said F you to the umpire in 2009 and didn't lose a point. DOUBLE STANDARD!

Serena is women's tennis and no one cares about it when she's gone. The ratings prove it.

You need to know how tennis rules work if you want to make that argument.

First violation = warning, Second violation = point penalty, Third violation = game penalty.

Serena became abusive after she already had 2 violations. That's why she got the third violation. Federer and co were abusive prior to their 2nd violation, they got called for it, and they stopped.

Serena is 100% in the wrong here, and the fact that she's trying to capitalize on that as some sort of a rally cry is disturbing.

 

[Fantomas]

I'm still quite upset by this a couple of days later

lmao

 

[Daisy Jane]

23 Slams gives you the right to speak your mind. Take Serena out of the Final and most casual fans don't show up or even watch the Final on TV. It's fine for men to be rude, but not for a black woman. Then all the non-tennis fans come in here and attack her character, although they've nevet come in here and done the same to a white man. It was sexist. Nuff said.

The umpire did not see the big picture, used poor judgement, and I hope this impacts his career, because it should.

as a person of colour and a woman please stop making this about

A: being sexist
B: being racist.

because it's not

when athletes act stupid, or choke, they get their pound of flesh, regardless of colour or gender.
it doesn't matter that "Serena is Women's Tennis." (which is a bunch of bull in itself).. she's not above the rules. the fact that people want the rules the bend for her simply because she's popular or has 23 grand slams, or that she's a woman, or that she's a black woman or that she's a black woman who is a mother is insulting to all 3 groups.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

My last word on this. White men say f u to officials all the time. A black woman calls one a thief, she is demonized, and it's the end of the world. Black people are held to a higher standard, because they are viewed as less than human. It's obviously racist.

 

[Dr Pepper]

My last word on this. White men say f u to officials all the time. A black woman calls one a thief, she is demonized, and it's the end of the world. Black people are held to a higher standard, because they are viewed as less than human. It's obviously racist.

Yikes.

Yep, you're right, the fix was in to have Serena lose to Osaka, since Osaka isn't bl-........oh, wait.

(Also fairly certain the umpire was Hispanic, so there's that)

Anyone turning this into a issue of race or racism, has an agenda to push.

I don't even know if Serena herself hinted at racism during her tirade......it was mostly just (false) accusations of sexism, was it not?

 

[jj cale]

23 Slams gives you the right to speak your mind. Take Serena out of the Final and most casual fans don't show up or even watch the Final on TV. It's fine for men to be rude, but not for a black woman. Then all the non-tennis fans come in here and attack her character, although they've nevet come in here and done the same to a white man. It was sexist. Nuff said.

The umpire did not see the big picture, used poor judgement, and I hope this impacts his career, because it should.

They would never do it to a white man? are you serious?

Mcenroe was one of the most hated athletes on the planet when he was in his prime,loads of fans despised the guy and his act, at wimbledon and in the press the guy was crucified,they splashed it constantly over the front pages there...."superbrat" i think he was the first player ever who did not immediately get lifetime membership at the club when he won his first title there which is an automatic for any winner.

You must not have been alive when Mcenroe was playing, he was public enemy number with fans and the press.