Value of: Unsigned Karlsson + Stone + Duchene

Mr Positive

Cap Crunch Incoming
Nov 20, 2013
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the league is getting younger. I don't think these older players will get the kind of returns they once did, only a few years ago. These veteran players are still coveted, but giving up futures is a tougher pill to swallow than it once was.
 

Klumppa

Registered User
Jun 8, 2015
152
22
How about 4 first round picks, literally #1 prospect in the organization, literally #2 prospect in the organization, and a salary that is in its final year?

So from Dallas:

Heisakenen
Honka
1st - 2020
1st - 2021
1st - 2022
1st - 2023
Spezza
Methot
Hanzal

Rough breakdown:

Karlsson for Heisakenen

Stone for 2 1sts + Honka

Duchene for 2 1sts

Then a bunch of dead, but expiring salary.
That would be insane for Dallas to agree
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
the league is getting younger. I don't think these older players will get the kind of returns they once did, only a few years ago. These veteran players are still coveted, but giving up futures is a tougher pill to swallow than it once was.
EK, Stone and Duchene are old?
 

Kamiccolo

Truly wonderful, the mind of a child is.
Aug 30, 2011
26,828
16,944
Undisclosed research facility
the league is getting younger. I don't think these older players will get the kind of returns they once did, only a few years ago. These veteran players are still coveted, but giving up futures is a tougher pill to swallow than it once was.

I agree but the sun hasn't set yet. There are still a few old school GM's around who haven't caught on.
 

t0nedeff

Registered User
Jun 29, 2010
9,985
4,198
That would be insane for Dallas to agree
It would immediately make them cup contenders its not really a good return for Ottawa especially if they find ways to keep all 3 players going forward. If they did that all those first rounders are basically going to be 25-30 range.
 

Sabresruletheschool

Registered User
Jul 16, 2012
4,633
856
It would immediately make them cup contenders its not really a good return for Ottawa especially if they find ways to keep all 3 players going forward. If they did that all those first rounders are basically going to be 25-30 range.

Why would all the rounders be 25-30 range? All 3 could leave after a year. Then you could suck and not have any first round picks for the next 4 years.
 
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hairylikebear

///////////////
Apr 30, 2009
4,177
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Houston
How about 4 first round picks, literally #1 prospect in the organization, literally #2 prospect in the organization, and a salary that is in its final year?

So from Dallas:

Heisakenen
Honka
1st - 2020
1st - 2021
1st - 2022
1st - 2023
Spezza
Methot
Hanzal

Rough breakdown:

Karlsson for Heisakenen

Stone for 2 1sts + Honka

Duchene for 2 1sts

Then a bunch of dead, but expiring salary.

Hard no to all 3 of your mini-trades.
 
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CapnZin

Registered User
Jul 20, 2017
4,665
6,204
Sweden
How about 4 first round picks, literally #1 prospect in the organization, literally #2 prospect in the organization, and a salary that is in its final year?

So from Dallas:

Heisakenen
Honka
1st - 2020
1st - 2021
1st - 2022
1st - 2023
Spezza
Methot
Hanzal

Rough breakdown:

Karlsson for Heisakenen

Stone for 2 1sts + Honka

Duchene for 2 1sts

Then a bunch of dead, but expiring salary.
Karlsson is worth so so so much more than Heisakenen. Stone probably returns more than that, but maybe not. Duchene is probably worth 2 1sts.
 

The Best Leafs Ever

Registered User
Feb 28, 2017
2,147
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Who the phack has this much cap space? Lol after just reading RW is more important position than LW, reading this makes me laugh even harder. What is this board turning into? :laugh:
 

Sabresruletheschool

Registered User
Jul 16, 2012
4,633
856
Karlsson is worth so so so much more than Heisakenen. Stone probably returns more than that, but maybe not. Duchene is probably worth 2 1sts.

O'Reilly's better then Duchene and signed long term and didn't get 2 1st. Skinner and Stone roughly hold the same value, and Skinner didn't get two 1st. Let alone two 1st and young player. Both players will get a late 1st and some kind of prospect at the trade deadline if Ottawa holds on to them until then.
 

CapnZin

Registered User
Jul 20, 2017
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O'Reilly's better then Duchene and signed long term and didn't get 2 1st. Skinner and Stone roughly hold the same value, and Skinner didn't get two 1st. Let alone two 1st and young player. Both players will get a late 1st and some kind of prospect at the trade deadline if Ottawa holds on to them until then.
O’Rielly’s deal is worth way more than 2 1sts. Berglund, Sobotka, Thompson, 1st, 2nd is 2 1st + a lot more.
Stone is a better 2-way forwards and holds similar offensive upside as Skinner. Skinners Trade wasn’t good solely due to Carolina GM getting fleeced and being dumb. Doesn’t take away from Stone.

Duchene I agree could merit 1st + good prospect come deadline.

Stone I thibk costs more though. Maybe a 1st + Blue chip + add. Look at Nash/Tatar/McDonagh deals come deadline. Teams pay a premium at the deadline.
 

Sabresruletheschool

Registered User
Jul 16, 2012
4,633
856
O’Rielly’s deal is worth way more than 2 1sts. Berglund, Sobotka, Thompson, 1st, 2nd is 2 1st + a lot more.
Stone is a better 2-way forwards and holds similar offensive upside as Skinner. Skinners Trade wasn’t good solely due to Carolina GM getting fleeced and being dumb. Doesn’t take away from Stone.

Duchene I agree could merit 1st + good prospect come deadline.

Stone I thibk costs more though. Maybe a 1st + Blue chip + add. Look at Nash/Tatar/McDonagh deals come deadline. Teams pay a premium at the deadline.

Your perspective on the O'Reilly trade is questionable to me. Some say Buffalo took two cap dumps, Thompson ( I admit, I don't know a whole lot about this kid), whats going to be a late 1st and 2nd. Maybe that's worth two 1st? But, also he had 5 more years on his deal which is huge.

Not saying it couldn't happen. GM's make hearky jerky moves all the time. I just wouldn't expect it. I mean, I thought Kane would get and automatic late 1st and he didn't even bring that. But then another teams way overpays overpays for a meh forward. You never know.
 
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duffy9748

Registered User
Nov 26, 2007
4,842
688
Philly could do it. Ottawa would just have to take 1-2 short term cap dumps to make it work.

Karlsson+Duchene+Stone

For

Phil Myers+Wade Allison+Mikhail Vorobyev+2019 1st+MacDonald(Karlsson)

German Rubstov+2020 1st+2019 2nd+Weise(Duchene)

Joel Farabee+Isaac Ratcliffe+Jordan Weal+2020 2nd(Stone)

Take on Macdonald and Wiese(both up after 19-20) to make it work cap wise.

All totally unrealistic but Flyers would be pretty stacked for the next 4 years. They could likely sign Karlsson and Stone long term. Simmonds could be traded to recoup some draft picks to offset the loss of Duchene.

Giroux-Couturier-Konecny
JVR-Patrick-Stone
Lindblom-Duchene-Voracek
NAK/Leier-Laughton-Raffl

Sanheim-Karlsson
Provorov-Ghost
Hagg-Gudas
Morin

Still have Frost and O’Brien on the way up front. The defense is in place for the foreseeable future.

Ottawa gets back 10 assets with value, several of which are high end pieces in Sanheim, Farabee, and 2 1st round picks. The other 4 prospects all project to be NHL forwards as well by 2020-2021.
 

duffy9748

Registered User
Nov 26, 2007
4,842
688
Philly could do it. Ottawa would just have to take 1-2 short term cap dumps to make it work.

Karlsson+Duchene+Stone

For

Phil Myers+Wade Allison+Mikhail Vorobyev+2019 1st+MacDonald(Karlsson)

German Rubstov+2020 1st+2019 2nd+Weise(Duchene)

Joel Farabee+Isaac Ratcliffe+Jordan Weal+2020 2nd(Stone)

Take on Macdonald and Wiese(both up after 19-20) to make it work cap wise.

All totally unrealistic but Flyers would be pretty stacked for the next 4 years. They could likely sign Karlsson and Stone long term. Simmonds could be traded to recoup some draft picks to offset the loss of Duchene.

Giroux-Couturier-Konecny
JVR-Patrick-Stone
Lindblom-Duchene-Voracek
NAK/Leier-Laughton-Raffl

Sanheim-Karlsson
Provorov-Ghost
Hagg-Gudas
Morin

Still have Frost and O’Brien on the way up front. The defense is in place for the foreseeable future.

Ottawa gets back 10 assets with value, several of which are high end pieces in Sanheim, Farabee, and 2 1st round picks. The other 4 prospects all project to be NHL forwards as well by 2020-2021.
 

CapnZin

Registered User
Jul 20, 2017
4,665
6,204
Sweden
Philly could do it. Ottawa would just have to take 1-2 short term cap dumps to make it work.

Karlsson+Duchene+Stone

For

Phil Myers+Wade Allison+Mikhail Vorobyev+2019 1st+MacDonald(Karlsson)

German Rubstov+2020 1st+2019 2nd+Weise(Duchene)

Joel Farabee+Isaac Ratcliffe+Jordan Weal+2020 2nd(Stone)

Take on Macdonald and Wiese(both up after 19-20) to make it work cap wise.

All totally unrealistic but Flyers would be pretty stacked for the next 4 years. They could likely sign Karlsson and Stone long term. Simmonds could be traded to recoup some draft picks to offset the loss of Duchene.

Giroux-Couturier-Konecny
JVR-Patrick-Stone
Lindblom-Duchene-Voracek
NAK/Leier-Laughton-Raffl

Sanheim-Karlsson
Provorov-Ghost
Hagg-Gudas
Morin

Still have Frost and O’Brien on the way up front. The defense is in place for the foreseeable future.

Ottawa gets back 10 assets with value, several of which are high end pieces in Sanheim, Farabee, and 2 1st round picks. The other 4 prospects all project to be NHL forwards as well by 2020-2021.
6 of our top 10 prospects including 2/3 of our top 5 depending where people have them along with 2 1st rd picks and a 2nd along with 2 cap dumps and a B6 roster player.
I understand Karlsson is arguably the best Dman in the league, Duchene is a fit at 2C, and Stone is a 1st line winger—> I just don’t see many people being comfortably with that package.
That’s way too many moving parts to judge value wise. 13 moving pieces for 3. Way too much in there. Idk of value is good or not. As for me... not comfortable giving up almost our entire top 10 pool for it. Although it would be nice to see all three of them in a flyers uniform.
 

CapnZin

Registered User
Jul 20, 2017
4,665
6,204
Sweden
Your perspective on the O'Reilly trade is questionable to me. Some say Buffalo took two cap dumps, Thompson ( I admit, I don't know a whole lot about this kid), whats going to be a late 1st and 2nd. Maybe that's worth two 1st? But, also he had 5 more years on his deal which is huge.

Not saying it couldn't happen. GM's make hearky jerky moves all the time. I just wouldn't expect it. I mean, I thought Kane would get and automatic late 1st and he didn't even bring that. But then another teams way overpays overpays for a meh forward. You never know.
Sobotka isn’t really a cap dump. He may not be a top 6 player, but he’s a good middle 6 guy. Berglund May be a cap dump idk too much about him.

Thompson has potential. He’s a big PF C with a scorers touch. He’s still a project even at the NHL level. He’ll take time to develop and could slot in well as a Bjustad type figure.

Although people on here value draft picks kinda weirdly... some overvalue heavily while some think they have 0 value, GMs are starting to stockpile. Many won’t move 1sts now unless it’s a sure thing (yes I know the Nash, Tatar, McDonagh, and so on).

Schenn returned 2 1sts and that could turn out to really bite them considering Frost and Farabee look to be great players for the future. Same with the O’Rilley case if he underperforms. That’s probably why they didn’t give up 2 1st rd picks.

I think if you break the STL-BUF trade down... Thompson and the 2nd equal a first and that 2nd is a pretty big add for that. Thompson could be a good player. Just hve to wait and see.
 
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duffy9748

Registered User
Nov 26, 2007
4,842
688
6 of our top 10 prospects including 2/3 of our top 5 depending where people have them along with 2 1st rd picks and a 2nd along with 2 cap dumps and a B6 roster player.
I understand Karlsson is arguably the best Dman in the league, Duchene is a fit at 2C, and Stone is a 1st line winger—> I just don’t see many people being comfortably with that package.
That’s way too many moving parts to judge value wise. 13 moving pieces for 3. Way too much in there. Idk of value is good or not. As for me... not comfortable giving up almost our entire top 10 pool for it. Although it would be nice to see all three of them in a flyers uniform.

The way I look at it, we’d be extremely lucky if 3 of our prospects reach the level of EK, Duchene, or Stone. It would be contingent on signing two of them long term(Karlsson being one), but I believe it would get them a cup over the next 4 years. Factor in they still keep Frost and O’Brien, there really wouldn’t be any open roster spots for 3-5 years.
 

God King Fudge

Championship Swag
Oct 13, 2017
6,308
6,793
How about 4 first round picks, literally #1 prospect in the organization, literally #2 prospect in the organization, and a salary that is in its final year?

So from Dallas:

Heisakenen
Honka
1st - 2020
1st - 2021
1st - 2022
1st - 2023
Spezza
Methot
Hanzal

Rough breakdown:

Karlsson for Heisakenen

Stone for 2 1sts + Honka

Duchene for 2 1sts

Then a bunch of dead, but expiring salary.
Dallas isn't including Heiskanen for Karlsson now, why in the hell would they do it with all the adds?
 

Son Goku

henlo u stinky egg
Mar 8, 2014
11,887
2,177
The World Of Void
You're missing the point entirely. Stone and Duchene are better than any and all of the players I listed and they all received huge bounties at the TDL.

As for Ott, maybe I have my players mixed up, I remember there was an absolute pure grinder/enforcer who was traded for a 1st in the last couple of years, maybe someone can help me here I'm blanking.
Reaves?
 
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Leafs87

Mr. Steal Your Job
Aug 10, 2010
14,743
4,829
Toronto
How about 4 first round picks, literally #1 prospect in the organization, literally #2 prospect in the organization, and a salary that is in its final year?

So from Dallas:

Heisakenen
Honka
1st - 2020
1st - 2021
1st - 2022
1st - 2023
Spezza
Methot
Hanzal

Rough breakdown:

Karlsson for Heisakenen

Stone for 2 1sts + Honka

Duchene for 2 1sts

Then a bunch of dead, but expiring salary.


You’d have to be 100% positive those three will bring you a cup. Even with all three they are not the clear best team. No way would any team ever give up that kind of package. Players on expiring deals also don’t bring back top prospects like Heiskanen.

Looking at the last huge UFA deadline deal Kovalchuk you can kind of gauge the return you should look at for Karlsson. Stone will bring back something nice but without an extension it would be what Sens want especially given his age. Duchene you better re sign because no way he’d bring back anywhere near what they just paid for him and it would probably create a crap storm with the remaining fans probably jumping ship.

I personally see the sens having a decent year and possibly even making the playoffs. Three guys with contracts to play for and some hungry young players.
 

Rolo

Registered User
Aug 9, 2011
2,645
1,324
Saad, Sikura, Murphy, Anisimov, Jokiharju, Beaudin, Forsling CHI 2019 1st, CHI 2020 1st

Duchene - Schmaltz - Kane
Debrincat - Toews - Stone

Keith - Karlsson
 

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