University Of Toronto Study: Canada can support an addtional SIX franchises

[Melrose Munch]

Are we still holding out hope for that payday? Really?

200 million from ESPN is the rumor...lessen the pressure that is moving teams with a new contract.

 

[Mansfield]

No they couldn't. Maybe two, tops.

No point in splitting the big markets either, except for maybe a hamilton team.

 

[rojac]

Nope. That would not be good for the CFL. Moreover, southern Ontario could support several additional NHL teams regardless imo.

GHOST

Who cares about a joke of a minor league like the CFL?

 

[Melrose Munch]

??????

The NFL would be a distant #2 to hockey in Toronto - or any Canadian city.

Toronto is a front runners city. The Blue Jays used to own the town two for about 3 years.

 

[rojac]

Toronto is a front runners city. The Blue Jays used to own the town two for about 3 years.

Well, it's hard to say given that the Jays' big time was also a big time for the Leafs. From my understanding though, the popularity of the Jays had very little effect on the popularity of the Leafs.

 

[saskganesh]

Who cares about a joke of a minor league like the CFL?

lots of peeps. please see Grey Cup TV ratings.

it's a fun league with affordable ticket prices.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

Who cares about a joke of a minor league like the CFL?

I'm not a football fan, but considering the CFL has been around for a long time I'm assuming some people do. How about improving that league instead of destroying it?

GHOST

 

[MAROONSRoad]

Toronto is a front runners city. The Blue Jays used to own the town two for about 3 years.

The popularity of the Leafs is even more impressive then. They haven't been a "front runner" for decades really.

GHOST

 

[Killion]

I assume some of these teams come from relocation sources, but 6 expansion teams would dillute the overall product way too much...

The hypothesis clearly suggests relocations. Neither feasible nor practicable going or coming. Obviously expansion X's another 6 teams would seriously dilute the product, the financial implications & ramifications to the existing 6 teams would be crippling as well. Clearly the authors are anarchists.

The brain dead simple answer is that yes, GTA can support another team or two. One size rarely fits all.

I dont disagree that the GTA could support 2 franchises with another arena & team in Downsview, but tell me, why should the Leafs stand for that?. Why not then double up in Philly, Chicago, Montreal, Detroit, NYC, Boston?. I find the notion absurd. The one & only place that another team in Southern Ontario makes practicable sense at all is in Hamilton. Just far enough outside of the GTA's boundaries to be able to draw from Mississauga/Oakville west to Kitchener-Waterloo. No, Hamilton does not possess much in the way of local corporate weight, however regionally, there are more than enough firms more than willing to pay big bucks for luxury suites & tickets, combined with a rabid fanbase. They shouldve' been granted admission into the league 20yrs ago. But another team, on top of Hamilton?. Sure. Lets kill the Golden Goose.

.Adding more teams in Canada wouldn't significantly increase national TV broadcast revenues in Canada, but would reduce the revenue per team. Two team markets would also mean splitting local TV, corporate and advertising revenues. GTA could easily support this, but Montreal is questionable and Vancouver would not.

They seemingly didnt bother to take that rather crucial element into consideration. The CBC, TSN, SportsNet are either at or near their maximum expenditures in terms of paying for broadcast nationally, regionally & locally. Are the authors thinking PPV?. That people will gladly & willingly pay up for blacked out games that of course would lower network revenues?. It just doesnt make any sense. Heretics'. Even if they could, but cant & shouldnt even be asked to do so, why would a Vancouver, Montreal or Toronto sit still for it?. Hamilton's effect on Leaf revenues would be negligible & in fact would likely help even further MLSE's bottom line with more eyeballs on the screen, merchandising sales & a whole Magicians Trunk full of goodies upon which they could rake in even more obscene profits than they currently enjoy. Winnipeg, Hamilton & Quebec City are absolutely no brainers. Beyond that & or anywhere else and were talking nonsense IMO....

 

[Melrose Munch]

lots of peeps. please see Grey Cup TV ratings.

it's a fun league with affordable ticket prices.

Like I said its a western league with most western viewership

I'm not a football fan, but considering the CFL has been around for a long time I'm assuming some people do. How about improving that league instead of destroying it?

GHOST

The league would not die. Ottawa does not have a team and they still live

The popularity of the Leafs is even more impressive then. They haven't been a "front runner" for decades really.

GHOST

They wernt all the popular in the 80's

 

[Bryan574]

I think there's only space for four more:

1) Winnipeg
2) Quebec City
3) Hamilton
*4) Toronto #2 (MLSE won't let this one happen)

I could maybe see another team in Montreal, but I have a strong feeling that they would become the Clippers of the NHL.

Montreal lives and breathes Habs hockey (more so than Toronto with the Leafs IMO)

I think thats the best solution as it will end the constant bickering between residents of Southern Ont with the pro Toronto area side vs pro Hamilton area side.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Well, it's hard to say given that the Jays' big time was also a big time for the Leafs. From my understanding though, the popularity of the Jays had very little effect on the popularity of the Leafs.

I would agree nominally. The Leafs have mostly, not always, mostly been number 1. At the end of the day the Jays did win and the leafs didn't.

 

[Killion]

The popularity of the Leafs is even more impressive then. They haven't been a "front runner" for decades really. GHOST

It is. I was born in the late 50's & grew up in Toronto during their last Golden Era, however like many from my generation, was sickened & turned off by the team, its ownership & management through the 70's & early 80's. Im amazed that anyone born in the late 60's & on would support mediocrity to the extent they have however, such is the mystique' of the Leafs.

 

[Ogopogo*]

Who cares about a joke of a minor league like the CFL?

If the CFL is a joke, so is Canada itself.

 

[saskganesh]

Like I said its a western league with most western viewership

Argos are now outdrawing the Jays on a game to game basis. And it's Hamilton's most supported team. YMMV.

 

[wickedwitch]

I think there's only space for four more:

1) Winnipeg
2) Quebec City
3) Hamilton
*4) Toronto #2 (MLSE won't let this one happen)

I could maybe see another team in Montreal, but I have a strong feeling that they would become the Clippers of the NHL.

Montreal lives and breathes Habs hockey (more so than Toronto with the Leafs IMO)

If Quebec got a team, a second team in Montreal would be even more improbable.

 

[GSC2k2*]

I doubt Hamilton could support a team; league expenses have skyrocketed since they were last seriously considered. A second Southern Ontario team should be located in downtown Toronto though. No owner in the US wants to see Hamilton come into their buildings; very few in the US have ever even heard of Hamilton. Copps is not an NHL caliber building by any means.

Normally, i ignore threads which talk about pie-in-the-sky theories that will never, EVER happen, especially those theories that are based on "reports" that are as pitifully laughable as this bit of xenophobic claptrap ...

... but I simply want to record for the record that, for the first (and very possibly last) time in history, I 100% agree with Gump on his post above.

 

[dronald]

Normally, i ignore threads which talk about pie-in-the-sky theories that will never, EVER happen, especially those theories that are based on "reports" that are as pitifully laughable as this bit of xenophobic claptrap ...

... but I simply want to record for the record that, for the first (and very possibly last) time in history, I 100% agree with Gump on his post above.

For a guy thats from Hamilton you should know better than any that we can support a team and there are only two things keeping us from getting one. I'll give you a hint, one is on one side of the QEW and the other is on the other side.

 

[LeftCoast]

Me Neither. Houston needs a team for example. But all this losing money, financial, etc is taking a toll on the leagues rep.

There are still a number of (potentially) really good hockey markets in the US without a team. Houston, Portland, Seattle, Kansas City, etc.

Gary Bettman has signaled that he would not be opposed to a Las Vegas franchise if an arena and owner were to come forward.

I was just in Las Vegas (for 2 days - long enough - before driving up to Zions in Utah). The Vegas economy is in the tank. The city leads the US in foreclosures, but still, there are SEVEN simultaneous Cirque Du Solei shows running in Vegas, at $100 - $200 per ticket, sold out almost every night. On top of that, there is The Lion King (we took our kids and got the last 4 seats at $80/ticket), Phantom of the Opera, Celine, Carlos Santana, Gladys Knight, Barry Manilow and a whole bunch of adult, comedy, dance and variety acts (Penn & Teller, The Blue Man Crew, David Copperfield, Jabbawakiees, etc.). None of these shows really appeal to men aged 25 - 50 who aren't into the "adult" shows. But the sports betting floors of virtually all of the casinos are packed with exactly this demographic. If an arena and owner could be put in place in Las Vegas, the NHL would sell out every night at premium prices. The hotels would buy up the season tickets.

Even with a soft economy, there is no shortage of money in Vegas. Sheldon Adelson, Donald Trump, Steve Wynn, etc.

Carl Icahn just purchased, for about $150M (less than the price of the land) a bankrupt and abandoned casino/resort project, the Fountainebleau on the strip, which the developers had invested almost $3B in. Icahn's has indicated that he will either hold the property until the economy rebounds and then either flip it or complete it.

 

[Melrose Munch]

If the CFL is a joke, so is Canada itself.

No its not. Some things are more popular regionally than others.

Argos are now outdrawing the Jays on a game to game basis. And it's Hamilton's most supported team. YMMV.

It's also hamilton's only real team, the AHL does not count.

The neither the Argos or Jays fill out the Rogers Centre.

 

[dronald]

No its not. Some things are more popular regionally than others.


It's also hamilton's only real team, the AHL does not count.

The neither the Argos or Jays fill out the Rogers Centre.

The Hamilton Ti-Cats?

 

[Melrose Munch]

There are still a number of (potentially) really good hockey markets in the US without a team. Houston, Portland, Seattle, Kansas City, etc.

Gary Bettman has signaled that he would not be opposed to a Las Vegas franchise if an arena and owner were to come forward.

I was just in Las Vegas (for 2 days - long enough - before driving up to Zions in Utah). The Vegas economy is in the tank. The city leads the US in foreclosures, but still, there are SEVEN simultaneous Cirque Du Solei shows running in Vegas, at $100 - $200 per ticket, sold out almost every night. On top of that, there is The Lion King (we took our kids and got the last 4 seats at $80/ticket), Phantom of the Opera, Celine, Carlos Santana, Gladys Knight, Barry Manilow and a whole bunch of adult, comedy, dance and variety acts (Penn & Teller, The Blue Man Crew, David Copperfield, Jabbawakiees, etc.). None of these shows really appeal to men aged 25 - 50 who aren't into the "adult" shows. But the sports betting floors of virtually all of the casinos are packed with exactly this demographic. If an arena and owner could be put in place in Las Vegas, the NHL would sell out every night.

Even with a soft economy, there is no shortage of money in Vegas. Sheldon Adelson, Donald Trump, Steve Wynn, etc.

Carl Icahn just purchased, for about $150M (less than the price of the land) a bankrupt and abandoned casino/resort project, the Fountainebleau on the strip, which the developers had invested almost $3B in. Icahn's has indicated that he will either hold the property until the economy rebounds and then either flip it or complete it.

That's things. it was not southern expansion itself but the way it was done. The south has the big 4. Gary should have gone there first. Then Raleigh and Nashville et al. Testing the the larger area could have saved a world of hurt.

I am not opposed to Las Vegas. It would be fun. Not any different from Miami.

 

[Melrose Munch]

The Hamilton Ti-Cats?

Yes .

 

[MeHateHe]

Actually, Kelowna is larger than Victoria.

Only if you're just talking about the city of Victoria. Victoria is essentially a cluster of municipalities with a combined population of about 350,000.

 

[rojac]

Like I said its a western league with most western viewership



The league would not die. Ottawa does not have a team and they still live


They wernt all the popular in the 80's

What are you basing this supposed lack of popularity on? They were still selling lots of tickets throughout the 80s and I believe the TV ratings were still pretty good even though those teams were far worse than the latest "no playoffs for six years" teams.