Unfufilled potential ...

David Bruce Banner

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Mar 25, 2008
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Russ Courtnall - He had a few good seasons, but irregardless, he always left you wanting more. No one could skate as fast to get nowhere it seems.

Actually, Steve Tambellini was a lot like that. The guy could fly... the guy could stickhandle... he had a pretty decent shot too. Couldn't put them together. He'd fall down... the puck would jump over his stick at he last minute... his shots would hit someone and deflect wide. Always lots of action, but rarely any results. His son has some of that.

To whoever said Martin Gelinas... well, I guess he didn't end up scoring in the NHL like he did in the Q... but who does? Regardless, I was never the least bit disappointed his game. A very underrated hockey player, and a guy who was a pleasure to watch. I was very sad when the Keenan Canucks, for some unfathomable reason, got rid of him.

Another for the big list... Doug Wickenheiser
 

vadim sharifijanov

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Oct 10, 2007
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Actually, Steve Tambellini was a lot like that. The guy could fly... the guy could stickhandle... he had a pretty decent shot too. Couldn't put them together. He'd fall down... the puck would jump over his stick at he last minute... his shots would hit someone and deflect wide. Always lots of action, but rarely any results. His son has some of that.

To whoever said Martin Gelinas... well, I guess he didn't end up scoring in the NHL like he did in the Q... but who does? Regardless, I was never the least bit disappointed his game. A very underrated hockey player, and a guy who was a pleasure to watch. I was very sad when the Keenan Canucks, for some unfathomable reason, got rid of him.

re: the younger courtnall and the older tambellini, that description also reminds me of a name mentioned earlier in this thread, geoff sanderson. obviously he had some success in the league, and was around for a while. but if you added up all the skills together: the speed, the shot, the stickhandling ability, it exceeded the actual player.

with marty gelinas, if you look at the entirety of his career, and if you look at his abilities and skillset and how hardworking he was, then i don't see how you could call him a disappointment or say that he had unfulfilled potential.

but if you look at him as the guy who was drafted directly before roenick, selanne, and brind'amour, and showed some good offensive promise as a teenager on the last oilers cup winner, then for whatever reason was moved around, fell into oblivion and was waived before re-establishing himself as an offensive player in the league while adding a valuable role-playing element to his game (kind of a ray whitney's career meets manny malhotra's), then maybe you could say he gave up some key years to growing pains.
 

Mad Habber

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Jul 5, 2006
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With Gelinas, I guess someone could say that he re-invented himself. From his junior career, it seems, he was destined for some team's first line and to fill the net with pucks. He didn't quite accomplish that, so that's why he does belong on this list. But much like a Guy Carbonneau did (another offensive star in the Q), he changed his style and became a more complete player. Obviously Gelinas wasn't a defensive star like Carbo, but Gelinas was more of 2nd/3rd liner while Carbo remained a fixture on the 3rd line and a Selke candidate.

So my hat goes up for his good career because most junior stars scorers who don't score in the NHL don't stay in the NHL. But his offensive expectations does mean that Gelinas belongs on this list. At least it does to me.
 

begbeee

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Oct 16, 2009
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With Gelinas, I guess someone could say that he re-invented himself. From his junior career, it seems, he was destined for some team's first line and to fill the net with pucks. He didn't quite accomplish that, so that's why he does belong on this list. But much like a Guy Carbonneau did (another offensive star in the Q), he changed his style and became a more complete player. Obviously Gelinas wasn't a defensive star like Carbo, but Gelinas was more of 2nd/3rd liner while Carbo remained a fixture on the 3rd line and a Selke candidate.

So my hat goes up for his good career because most junior stars scorers who don't score in the NHL don't stay in the NHL. But his offensive expectations does mean that Gelinas belongs on this list. At least it does to me.
This. Manny Malhotra fits to this category too.
 

vadim sharifijanov

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Oct 10, 2007
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With Gelinas, I guess someone could say that he re-invented himself. From his junior career, it seems, he was destined for some team's first line and to fill the net with pucks. He didn't quite accomplish that, so that's why he does belong on this list. But much like a Guy Carbonneau did (another offensive star in the Q), he changed his style and became a more complete player. Obviously Gelinas wasn't a defensive star like Carbo, but Gelinas was more of 2nd/3rd liner while Carbo remained a fixture on the 3rd line and a Selke candidate.

So my hat goes up for his good career because most junior stars scorers who don't score in the NHL don't stay in the NHL. But his offensive expectations does mean that Gelinas belongs on this list. At least it does to me.

in his prime on the canucks, he was their leading goal scorer and won team MVP. granted it was a terrible terrible team, with mogilny loafing and bure injured, but still, that's back to back 30 goal seasons-- the first in the last high scoring year, the second (his career year) when scoring levels were basically what they are right now. he was legitimately getting first line minutes (with linden and mogilny, i think) and first unit PP minutes. i'd say gelinas at his peak wasn't that far off from shane doan.

it was a short lived prime though, and as you say the most representative years of his career are as a second/third line tweener with very good two-way ability and some grit to go along with his speed.

another guy whose career fits this mould, though he wasn't nearly as successful, is scott thornton. 3rd overall pick, was at his best as a 3rd line grinder who could chip in a bit on the scoreboard. as begbee notes, manny malhotra is another example, though he was supposed to be more of a brind'amour or linden than a modano. gelinas was one of the highest scorers in the CHL. but i don't think gelinas was nearly as good offensively as his junior career suggested.

we can maybe also add dan cleary to this list of former high picks who flamed out for a while, then stuck at a later age as a useful role player. other names: ethan moreau, chad kilger, tyler wright, and it looks like gilbert brule is heading that direction. you might even consider daigle one of those guys for his stint with lemaire in minnesota.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

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Aug 28, 2006
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It's going to be controversial, but I'm going to say Jaromir Jagr. If he had the passion for the game and/or didn't suffer from the depression issues (depending on how you look at it), he would have ended up a consensus top 10 player All Time
 

jkrx

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Feb 4, 2010
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It's going to be controversial, but I'm going to say Jaromir Jagr. If he had the passion for the game and/or didn't suffer from the depression issues (depending on how you look at it), he would have ended up a consensus top 10 player All Time

I can agree with this notion and say it's not very controversial. Atleast not for me.
 

vadim sharifijanov

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Oct 10, 2007
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It's going to be controversial, but I'm going to say Jaromir Jagr. If he had the passion for the game and/or didn't suffer from the depression issues (depending on how you look at it), he would have ended up a consensus top 10 player All Time

whoa, that is certainly controversial. i've never heard about depression issues. or i guess maybe i always read between the lines of "malaise" and "enigmatic" to suggest that he was a malcontent, not someone with a serious psychological problem.

if this is true, he certainly accomplished an awful lot considering. so did stephane richer, but obviously jagr was at a whole other level. a guy i mentioned upthread, frank mahovlich, also reportedly dealt with depression.

so top ten all-time means that jagr could have been somewhere around hull and richard? that seems crazy to think about, but he was certainly one of the most gifted players i've ever seen, physically and mentally. i guess hull is probably the best projection career-wise, because in a 20-30 team league, jagr even at full strength is probably not going to retire with 9-10 cups like richard and beliveau did. i don't know though, that's awfully lofty. maybe mikita -- scoring championships, MVPs, but not a guy who was ever in the greatest of all time debate -- would be a better fit. or lafleur with an extended prime? that would put him squarely around 15th all time.
 

seventieslord

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Mar 16, 2006
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whoa, that is certainly controversial. i've never heard about depression issues. or i guess maybe i always read between the lines of "malaise" and "enigmatic" to suggest that he was a malcontent, not someone with a serious psychological problem.

if this is true, he certainly accomplished an awful lot considering. so did stephane richer, but obviously jagr was at a whole other level. a guy i mentioned upthread, frank mahovlich, also reportedly dealt with depression.

so top ten all-time means that jagr could have been somewhere around hull and richard? that seems crazy to think about, but he was certainly one of the most gifted players i've ever seen, physically and mentally. i guess hull is probably the best projection career-wise, because in a 20-30 team league, jagr even at full strength is probably not going to retire with 9-10 cups like richard and beliveau did. i don't know though, that's awfully lofty. maybe mikita -- scoring championships, MVPs, but not a guy who was ever in the greatest of all time debate -- would be a better fit. or lafleur with an extended prime? that would put him squarely around 15th all time.

He already is Lafleur with an extended prime... but otherwise, I agree.
 

Gobo

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Jun 29, 2010
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Not as drastic as a lot of your guys' but Andrew Cogliano looked like he was sculpted for the new NHL. Could score, fast as lightning, played both ends of the ice. Then his hockey IQ caught up and he hit a wall and lost his finishing ability.
 

habsfan87

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Mar 1, 2008
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Tyler Arnason
Jason Arnott
Mark Bell
Kyle Calder
Todd Harvey
Rob Niedermayer (concussion problems, I suppose)
Adam Mair (probably because of the concussion)
Anthony Stewart (what does his brother Chris have that he doesn't?)
 

habsfan87

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Mar 1, 2008
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Might be controversial, but... Rick Nash? I guess he can't be judged without some secondary scoring and a good centre.
 

habsfan87

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Mar 1, 2008
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Chad Kilger and Taylor Pyatt are two more. Both were/are pretty good fighters who never fought/fight, Pyatt especially.
 

begbeee

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It's going to be controversial, but I'm going to say Jaromir Jagr. If he had the passion for the game and/or didn't suffer from the depression issues (depending on how you look at it), he would have ended up a consensus top 10 player All Time
Mmm...then what about Mario? In his early years he acted like amateur in beer league, not a professional athlet.
What he could do without "fried chips"?

Aleksey Morozov: drafted in 1st round, a little bit of late bloomer in him, he had two 50 points (on terrible Penguins team) seasons and IIRC during 2003 he was TOP5 in scoring until his early season injury. Definetly shows in Europe he was worthy of better chance.

Aki Petteri Berg:
3rd overall, WIKIPEDIA: Berg was thought to be a cannot miss prospect. Thus, while he turned into a nice complementary player at the NHL level, he nonetheless failed to have the impact that was expected of him. What else can I say?

Some homer picks:
Marcel Hossa:
drafted 16th overall he couldnt put it together in NHL, considering he was leading goal scorer in KHL, there is something in him for sure
Robert Petovicky:
drafted 9th overall, again he put together decent career, but not in NHL. Very respected player in Europe.
 

Milliardo

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Jun 6, 2010
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whoa, that is certainly controversial. i've never heard about depression issues. or i guess maybe i always read between the lines of "malaise" and "enigmatic" to suggest that he was a malcontent, not someone with a serious psychological problem.

if this is true, he certainly accomplished an awful lot considering. so did stephane richer, but obviously jagr was at a whole other level. a guy i mentioned upthread, frank mahovlich, also reportedly dealt with depression.

so top ten all-time means that jagr could have been somewhere around hull and richard? that seems crazy to think about, but he was certainly one of the most gifted players i've ever seen, physically and mentally. i guess hull is probably the best projection career-wise, because in a 20-30 team league, jagr even at full strength is probably not going to retire with 9-10 cups like richard and beliveau did. i don't know though, that's awfully lofty. maybe mikita -- scoring championships, MVPs, but not a guy who was ever in the greatest of all time debate -- would be a better fit. or lafleur with an extended prime? that would put him squarely around 15th all time.


Imagine this. Without the lockout in 04/05 (+/- 100 points)and if he played the last 3 seasons in the NHL (+/- 70 pints per season) he passes Mark Messier and ends up being the 2nd All-time scorer in the history of the NHL only trailing Wayne Gretzky. He also has a chance at 800 goals. That's how ridiculously good Jagr was. If you consider the fact, that he was in his prime during the dead puck era, and that he played way below his abilities for 2 1/2 seasons with the Caps and the 94/95 partial lockout also lowers his stats, it's even more impressive.

Considering his issues. He was very unhappy for some years (alsways blaming others, acting childish, yelling at coaches and teammates, but it was all just problems with himself), having trouble with gambling, losing a lot of money.
 

Milliardo

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Jun 6, 2010
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I'm willing to give Tverdovsky a pass due to the incident with his mom being held for ransom. That's a lot for anyone, much less a 19 year old kid to go through.

I'm not, because his decline started when he was like 25 years old.

Also, what about Sylvain Turgeon?

Also: Bill McDougall. Now he never really made it in the NHL, but his talent level was ridiculous. Came out of nowhere as a 23 year old to the ECHL, scoring 80 (!!!) goals in 57 games in the ECHL, then got called up to the AHL and scored 10 goals and 7 assists in his 11 game stint before the playoffs. scored 4 points in his first 6 NHL Games over the next 2 years and always destroyed the AHL. Had he not had such a big alcohol problem, I'm sure he'd had a very nice NHL career.
 
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tarheelhockey

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I read the title, and the name 'Johnathan Aitken' came immediately to mind.

Chosen 8th overall on a Bruins team that desperately needed defense, hyped up all summer long, he played 3 games in Boston and 41 in Chicago... with 1 assist and a -12 for his career. He spent as much time in the ECHL as he did in the NHL.
 

SidGenoMario

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Apr 10, 2009
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Crosby, sadly. The consistently bad linemates lead to him changing his style of play from what he could have been. There was obviously nothing wrong with how he turned out, but the dynamic offensive wizardry he had at the start of his career was put to a stop quite quickly. And now the concussion might be putting an abrupt end to his career.
 

tarheelhockey

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Feb 12, 2010
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Crosby, sadly. The consistently bad linemates lead to him changing his style of play from what he could have been. There was obviously nothing wrong with how he turned out, but the dynamic offensive wizardry he had at the start of his career was put to a stop quite quickly. And now the concussion might be putting an abrupt end to his career.

I literally get a sick feeling in my stomach when I think about this.
 

ForsbergForever

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May 19, 2004
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How about Dainius Zubrus? When the Habs got him for Mark Recchi I thought he was going to be putting up at least 30-goal seasons for years to come. He's 6'4 and a smooth skater but never broke out like many thought. I remember when he had a 4 goal game for Montreal, I thought it was the beginning of his rise but sadly it was the peak.
 

vadim sharifijanov

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Oct 10, 2007
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i don't know if todd bertuzzi has been mentioned, but for canucks fans it's definitely him. even discounting for a moment the steve moore incident, he had an 14 month stretch where he played like the force of nature that he was. before that, he was all over the place mentally and took all sorts of dumb penalties, showing flashes of greatness but was ridiculously inconsistent. after that, he played a lazy perimeter game, always trying to make cute drop passes to naslund instead of plowing through guys. god i hated him.
 

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