Proposal: Umberger

[Fro]

I just happen to disagree with that evaluation. I really do think folks are accentuating the negative and paying more attention to errors than to the overall state of his game.

at this point it really seems that you aren't watching the games...he's uncomfortable with the puck near him, the amount of turnovers is really getting ridiculous, and on top of that, penalties like the one he took last night is very lazy.

its one of three things, he's lost his passion, he's FAR out of shape, or he's injured and no one is saying anything. any of those three things are bad and he needs to stop being rewarded with power play time, top line minutes, and having an "A" anywhere near him.

I've been a large detractor of Brassard over the last couple years, but at least he has tried to put himself into a place to do something. being in the right place with a nice shot for a score last night and over the last few games, he's obviously seen he needed to step it up and has. RJ isn't doing these things...

 

[EspenK]

Regardless if whether you think he can be traded or not, your overall analysis from top to bottom is severely lacking. First off, we aren't going to amnesty buy out this guy, but thank you for wanting to blow the owners money like that. You do have a couple of decent points but it's almost impossible to notice with the hyperbole and melodrama.

A trade is far more likely than an amnesty buy out. I'm not saying the former is likely, just more likely.



That wasn't allowed in the old CBA, almost certain it's not allowed in the new CBA.

yeah, it is. Check this http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1330801&highlight=new+cba&page=4

 

[blahblah]

yeah, it is. Check this http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1330801&highlight=new+cba&page=4

Now that is surprising. That makes trading RJ a lot more possible and could create a lot more trading in general.

 

[Byrral]

We have watched the same from RJ over the past few years (couple for sure). Come to camp out of shape, struggles out of the gate and then get's going good just in time to salvage a twenty goal season in another meaningless playoff year. Doubt any team would want RJ with his contract but if he can he should be traded. $4.6m is a lot of dough for that. Otherwise he will be here because no way they eat that contract.

Off topic from earlier conversation: I believe that Brassard still has some value. I also believe he needs a fresh start. He has one year left on his contract and teams might be in the hunt for a second line center at this years trade deadline. Might be a good time to cut bait and get what may be the highest his value is gonna get.

 

[I hate the metro]

We have watched the same from RJ over the past few years (couple for sure). Come to camp out of shape, struggles out of the gate and then get's going good just in time to salvage a twenty goal season in another meaningless playoff year. Doubt any team would want RJ with his contract but if he can he should be traded. $4.6m is a lot of dough for that. Otherwise he will be here because no way they eat that contract.

Off topic from earlier conversation: I believe that Brassard still has some value. I also believe he needs a fresh start. He has one year left on his contract and teams might be in the hunt for a second line center at this years trade deadline. Might be a good time to cut bait and get what may be the highest his value is gonna get.

I agree about the slow start, and on top of that we are 10 games into a season with no preseason in which Umberger didn't play while waiting for the season to begin.

I'm on the fence with Brass. He looked better in the last game, and not just the goal. I remember a pass, I think during the final minutes of action where he threaded a cross ice pass through 2 defenders to open things up. Maybe it wasn't anything that special but i remember thinking, "atta boy brass, we need more of those"

 

[CapnCornelius]

I'm beyond disappointed with RJ at this point. I really thought of him as a locker room leader, but he seems less vocal these days and his on-ice performance is best described as sleep walking. I had hoped that new blood from Johnson, the young guys, Dubinsky, etc. might reinvigorate him, but he instead seems to be receding into the background.

I hate to say it, but I'd almost favor a trade at this point if you could find the right deal. I just don't know what you'd get back other than another player with a high cap hit that is underperforming.

 

[CBJx614]

at this point it really seems that you aren't watching the games...he's uncomfortable with the puck near him, the amount of turnovers is really getting ridiculous, and on top of that, penalties like the one he took last night is very lazy.

its one of three things, he's lost his passion, he's FAR out of shape, or he's injured and no one is saying anything. any of those three things are bad and he needs to stop being rewarded with power play time, top line minutes, and having an "A" anywhere near him.

I've been a large detractor of Brassard over the last couple years, but at least he has tried to put himself into a place to do something. being in the right place with a nice shot for a score last night and over the last few games, he's obviously seen he needed to step it up and has. RJ isn't doing these things...

Don't get me wrong I see how he has his purposes, but RJ without a doubt needs to see a drop in ice time when Atkinson returns.

 

[Nanabijou]

I would love to see RJ's fitness results during training camp over the last 4 seasons to see how the last 2 compared to the previous 2.

Of course, any speculation about RJ's fitness is just that: speculation. But in my opinion, I think that at the very least he wasn't in game-shape once the lock-out ended. Skating with the Buckeyes as an assistant coach is not the same as playing high-level competitive games, whether it was in another league or with a group of locked-out NHLers. There wasn't a big enough group in Columbus for the latter to happen regularly.

He's not an overly fast skater when he's at his peak. If he's not at his peak, he's going to look woefully slower than everyone else. That seemed to be the case the first 6 games, and he's slowly getting back up to speed the last 4 or so. I do wonder whether the lockout ending caught him by surprise - come December he might have been expecting the loss of the year, and then he had to go into catch-up mode in January. It's not an exam you can cram for.

Again, just my opinion based on observation - I have no direct evidence one way or the other why he's had another bad start.

 

[EDM]

Umberger should have been playing hockey during the lock out, not coaching.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Regardless if whether you think he can be traded or not, your overall analysis from top to bottom is severely lacking. First off, we aren't going to amnesty buy out this guy, but thank you for wanting to blow the owners money like that. You do have a couple of decent points but it's almost impossible to notice with the hyperbole and melodrama.

A trade is far more likely than an amnesty buy out. I'm not saying the former is likely, just more likely.

OK, hotshot. Analyze RJ for me. Top to bottom.

 

[Xoggz22]

Not sure how this will all flow but I'll give it a go.....

I'm as disappointed with RJ as the rest of you are. Personally, I don't see a "garbage" player but one who clearly needs to be a supporting player with at least a top line ahead of him. In my opinion every one of our players is currently stuck too high in the lineup thereby limiting their contribution. Sure they can play in 2 of the zones (most likely neutral zone and our own zone) which keeps pressure on our team all game long. We don't have any threat of offense and that's a big time problem.

RJ would improve on a team with some offensive talent. He could better fill a role. Right now the CBJ is asking him to fill the role of "scoring forward" which he clearly is not. He may adjust and improve going forward but I simply think this is a case where he's a role player (middle 6 type guy) being asked to help shoulder the scoring load and he simply isn't skilled enough to play in the offensive zone with consistency.

On the other hand, I think we're seeing that Anisimov may be better than he was billed to be on the Rangers. He may not be a top line guy but he is playing in all 3 zones with some consistency. With a little more skill on his wings maybe he could be a 60 pt, 2-way guy.

I won't mind if RJ is eventually moved but I can see him moving, doing much better and the hit comes back to the core of the CBJ. We have never built a TEAM, it's been about one player, stop gap measures, empty promises, poor player development and whatever else you want to throw in there. It's hard to stomach but I hope they stick with the proposed plan to develop through the draft and build depth and a team....

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I really thought of him as a locker room leader, but he seems less vocal these days and his on-ice performance is best described as sleep walking. I had hoped that new blood from Johnson, the young guys, Dubinsky, etc. might reinvigorate him, but he instead seems to be receding into the background.

This is what I wonder about - his role and/or mental approach, or at least his perception of said.

 

[EDM]

Xoggz22, I think you are right no. It is why I said that if RJ was traded to the Pens of back to the Flyers (or the Bruins or Rangers for that matter), he would return to be a solid 15-20 goal guy. In Academy Awards terms, he is a supporting actor, not a lead actor. On this team at this point in time, however, there is no lead actors and so RJ is woefully out of place. Even he knows it and it shows in his game. He is trying to do things he really cannot do on a consistent basis.

 

[Stretch Factor]

Umberger should have been playing hockey during the lock out, not coaching.

Or

Umberger should be coaching now, not playing hockey.

 

[Roadman]

Xoggz22, I think you are right no. It is why I said that if RJ was traded to the Pens of back to the Flyers (or the Bruins or Rangers for that matter), he would return to be a solid 15-20 goal guy. In Academy Awards terms, he is a supporting actor, not a lead actor. On this team at this point in time, however, there is no lead actors and so RJ is woefully out of place. Even he knows it and it shows in his game. He is trying to do things he really cannot do on a consistent basis.

As you indicated, I'm afraid just about the entire roster is made of supporting pieces.

Let's hope that will be a thing of the past in a relative short span of time.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Xoggz22, I think you are right no. It is why I said that if RJ was traded to the Pens of back to the Flyers (or the Bruins or Rangers for that matter), he would return to be a solid 15-20 goal guy. In Academy Awards terms, he is a supporting actor, not a lead actor. On this team at this point in time, however, there is no lead actors and so RJ is woefully out of place. Even he knows it and it shows in his game. He is trying to do things he really cannot do on a consistent basis.

Totally agree. We have a lot of nice Compliments, but none of them can carry a line.

 

[CBJx614]

Totally agree. We have a lot of nice Compliments, but none of them can carry a line.

Which is why I feel Johansen went back to Springfield. We want him to be more than just a complimentary piece. A lot is going to happen between now and opening night next year. Makes me really excited for next season

 

[blahblah]

OK, hotshot. Analyze RJ for me. Top to bottom.

Why? So you tell me how much of an idiot I am? Nah, I'm going to try and avoid the back and forth with people that hate players this much. They aren't rational and every flaw is highlighted, analyzed, and beaten into the ground. They rarely change their mind if there is cause. If I say he is not as soft as you make him out to be it is just going to be "OMFG WTF player are YOU WATCHING?!???!?!11?!!?!?1".

In my case I've admitted that Brassard has been playing better recently, for example. I don't get that with most other people.

Bottom line, if your analysis is hyperbole presented as in depth analysis I am simply going to say "Your analysis sucks ass" and move on. He is not as bad as you or others are making him out to be, any defense of him is just going to be met with irrational hostility from the other side. I've been here long enough to know that. He IS the whipping boy right now. Some of it is justified, a lot of it not. Any attempt to go to middle ground is going to cause anger from those that want to flog RJ.

I've spent the better part this thread trying to give a rational reason on why the CBJ may attempt to move him with those willing to express rational ideas. I have no time for your kind of analysis.

 

[EDM]

I am excited for 2015 .

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Why? So you tell me how much of an idiot I am? Nah, I'm going to try and avoid the back and forth with people that hate players this much. They aren't rational and every flaw is highlighted, analyzed, and beaten into the ground. They rarely change their mind if there is cause. If I say he is not as soft as you make him out to be it is just going to be "OMFG WTF player are YOU WATCHING?!???!?!11?!!?!?1".

In my case I've admitted that Brassard has been playing better recently, for example. I don't get that with most other people.

Bottom line, if your analysis is hyperbole presented as in depth analysis I am simply going to say "Your analysis sucks ass" and move on. He is not as bad as you or others are making him out to be, any defense of him is just going to be met with irrational hostility from the other side. I've been here long enough to know that. He IS the whipping boy right now. Some of it is justified, a lot of it not. Any attempt to go to middle ground is going to cause anger from those that want to flog RJ.

I've spent the better part this thread trying to give a rational reason on why the CBJ may attempt to move him with those willing to express rational ideas. I have no time for your kind of analysis.

Whatever.

You've offered no "rational reason" on how Umberger is a tradeable commodity. None. Nor have you bothered to define your precious "middle ground".

Of your 13,000+ posts, I have probably read 1000 of them and can't recall you engaging in any in-depth analysis of any player. With or without hyperbole. You do, however, offer copious quantities of opinions of others commentary which excessively drip with sarcasm and self righteousness.

Btw, Umberger is now on pace for a 4 point season. Lotta takers out there for guys like this with $4.5m/yr. for four more years in a declining cap environment.

 

[EDM]

Cyclone, several people, including myself, have posted that Umberger is more of a supporting player who could fill a very important role on a third line and as a PK killer on a talented team. There will be takers for RJ. They may not offer us much in trade. But there will be teams who will probably want RJ come play off-time.

 

[redsfanhere*]

the only good year rj umberger had is when he was due another contract think about it... now he is plain lazy

 

[EDM]

I agree he is now playing in a very lazy manner. That is my point. He needs to be with a playoff potential team to get his juices going. He needs to play very hard to be effective. And just does not do that with this team anymore. Put him on the Pens third line with a chance at the Cup and I think there is a very good chance you would see the "good" Umberger. But he will never do anything here because he has no interest in being on a "rebuilding" team.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Everything said here is all well and good, but what has to be changed is that RJ is leading ALL CBJ forwards in average ice time per game.

That's stunning, bewildering and needs to change.

 

[blahblah]

Everything said here is all well and good, but what has to be changed is that RJ is leading ALL CBJ forwards in average ice time per game.

That's stunning, bewildering and needs to change.

Someone really needs to address that with Richards in his next call in show. It is actually getting embarrassing for him. It is like RJ has dirt on him.

RJ's minutes should be reducing and not be in during key moments of the game until he can get his game going again. 4 on 4 in OT is NOT a good time for RJ right now. It's highly questionable when he is playing at his best. At least if you are trying to win the game and not go to the SO.

I've always like RJ, but he is hurting the team right now.