GDT: UFC on ESPN: Woodley vs. Burns

[VanillaCoke]

Hit record on the PVR and went to the keg for dinner, fully expected to return to a woodley win and my parlay to be completed...

Wasn't expecting to watch woodley look like such a non factor and really wish I'd taken burns on the bet and made even more money, but alas there's always next time. I'll be betting alot on Nunes.

 

[CDJ]

I gotta be honest I’m still mad about the fence grab. It’s for purely selfish reasons but still, that was poppy cock

 

[member 51464]

I gotta be honest I’m still mad about the fence grab. It’s for purely selfish reasons but still, that was poppy cock

Yes. Close last fight that could've gone either way and now this one where a point deduction would've swung the result and his record is looking worse than his showings have been.

 

[BGDDYKWL]

I know it's easy to say after the fact but a big athletic pressure fighter with solid stand-up and great BJJ is an absolute nightmare matchup for Woodley. I've always felt he was pretty overrated. He came in after GSP, after Lawler had been in hours of absolute wars, and before this new wave. His run included barely squeaking out decisions against Gastelum and Wonderboy (2). While more dominant, his career arc reminds me a bit of Rashad. Both have power and very fast hands so you watch them and keep waiting for them to explode, but it just never happens. Neither seem/seemed to really wanna be in there anymore.

Woodley has been so thoroughly dominated in his last two fights there's really no point in continuing. It's just too wide a gap to close. Burns is gonna pose big problems to everyone at 170. Guys like Usman and Covington will have to be careful and go for takedowns late in rounds to score points, and he can put all the top strikers on their backs.

I've never been a fan nor sold on Masvidal, so he can continue to milk every bit of his 15 minutes while the UFC sets up Burns-Usman. That's the most interesting matchup IMO. Although from a matchmaking perspective doing Burns/Covington with the winner getting the Usman/Masvidal winner certainly makes some sense. Problem then is what do you do with Edwards. Guy hasn't lost in 4.5 years.

 

[CDJ]

I wasn’t sold on Masvidal until the Diaz fight, he looked like a world beater to me that night

still think Usman would pressure him nonstop and spam him with takedowns

 

[CDJ]

 

[pistolpete11]

I know it's easy to say after the fact but a big athletic pressure fighter with solid stand-up and great BJJ is an absolute nightmare matchup for Woodley. I've always felt he was pretty overrated. He came in after GSP, after Lawler had been in hours of absolute wars, and before this new wave. His run included barely squeaking out decisions against Gastelum and Wonderboy (2). While more dominant, his career arc reminds me a bit of Rashad. Both have power and very fast hands so you watch them and keep waiting for them to explode, but it just never happens. Neither seem/seemed to really wanna be in there anymore.

I think you're being overly critical of Woodley here. Even the best of the best have won close decisions. It happens when you're fighting some of the best guys in the world fight after fight. There is also a changing of the guards every 3-4-5 years. Sometimes less. When guys continue to win for longer than that, you're talking GOAT regardless of division like GSP, Jones, Anderson, etc. All he can do is beat the guys put in front of him. He did that...however boring some of them were...but some of those guys are damn good fighters and Woodley deserves credit for it.

I've never been a fan nor sold on Masvidal, so he can continue to milk every bit of his 15 minutes while the UFC sets up Burns-Usman. That's the most interesting matchup IMO. Although from a matchmaking perspective doing Burns/Covington with the winner getting the Usman/Masvidal winner certainly makes some sense. Problem then is what do you do with Edwards. Guy hasn't lost in 4.5 years.

Masvidal is pretty legit IMO, but I think he's undersized for WW. When the champ is a massive WW who's also a great wrestler, it's a tough matchup for him. With a potential Conor fight on the table, I can't really blame him for waiting to see how some stuff plays out before accepting an Usman fight.

 

[m9]

I wasn’t sold on Masvidal until the Diaz fight, he looked like a world beater to me that night

still think Usman would pressure him nonstop and spam him with takedowns

Lots of guys have looked like world beaters against Nate Diaz, especially at 170 lbs. I wouldn't put too much weight into that performance or at least what it means for the top of the 170lb division.

 

[CDJ]

Lots of guys have looked like world beaters against Nate Diaz, especially at 170 lbs. I wouldn't put too much weight into that performance or at least what it means for the top of the 170lb division.

that’s fair, it’s just hard to put a caveat on every fight when he starched Askren and Till before that. At a certain point it’s not a fluke anymore and somethings real there.

he’s always been super talented, he’s just had trouble putting it all together at once in the past. Plus nobody has worse split decision luck than that guy. He just decided to start knocking ppl out to avoid that

 

[m9]

that’s fair, it’s just hard to put a caveat on every fight when he starched Askren and Till before that. At a certain point it’s not a fluke anymore and somethings real there.

he’s always been super talented, he’s just had trouble putting it all together at once in the past. Plus nobody has worse split decision luck than that guy. He just decided to start knocking ppl out to avoid that

Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at. The Till/Askren wins are the ones that really showed where he is at. The Diaz win is fine, but what he did to someone like Till is much more impressive to me.

 

[CDJ]

Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at. The Till/Askren wins are the ones that really showed where he is at. The Diaz win is fine, but what he did to someone like Till is much more impressive to me.

ppl forget he got dropped really early on in that Till fight

if he hadn’t recovered we would be in a very different spot right now

 

[m9]

So what do people think should happen with all the top guys at 170 lbs now? Thinking about it, there are a few directions they can go and I'm pretty much okay with all of them. Here's my shot:

Usman v Masvidal - Putting it here because the UFC needs a legit PPV headliner and this is the one that does it. Maybe Burns is more deserving, but Usman/Burns doesn't sell the same so you get Masvidal his title shot. Plus if Masvidal wins you have a chance to setup a massive PPV against someone else after.

Burns v Edwards - True #1 contender's fight that headline an ESPN card. Not sure the status of Edwards logistically right now but hopefully they can make it work.

Covington v Chiesa - Another ESPN headliner. Chiesa called them out and I think it's a good matchup.

Woodley v Lawler - This is a fight they've tried to make recently. Assuming Woodley wants to keep fighting, I think this is a good matchup that would be ideal as the #3 fight on a PPV.

 

[bov]

Re watched the Masvidal-Wonderboy fight the other day, what an absolute clinic. Looked like a sparring session for Thompson. Wins over Ben Askren and Nate Diaz mean absolute f*** all when it comes to the WW title picture, that's why they created the fake belt in the first place. I respect the body of work, but this guy (Masvidal) is more caught up in the fame now and wants to stay in the spotlight by choosing his fights.

I'm guessing Usman vs Burns for the title and Masvidal's next bout to be one of Diaz/Covington/McGregor/Edwards.

 

[CDJ]

Woodley should be fighting the Lawlers and RDA’s and even the Cerrone’s of the world (if Cerrone wants to fight at WW)

 

[CDJ]

Re watched the Masvidal-Wonderboy fight the other day, what an absolute clinic. Looked like a sparring session for Thompson. Wins over Ben Askren and Nate Diaz mean absolute f*** all when it comes to the WW title picture, that's why they created the fake belt in the first place. I respect the body of work, but this guy (Masvidal) is more caught up in the fame now and wants to stay in the spotlight by choosing his fights.

I'm guessing Usman vs Burns for the title and Masvidal's next bout to be one of Diaz/Covington/McGregor/Edwards.

A win over a guy who had literally just challenged for the belt does matter though (Till). And we can say that in hindsight about Askren but at the end of the day he was undefeated (with some good names mixed in there like Lima and Koreshkov) and he was coming off a win against a former champion in Lawler

and Masvidal f***ed all 3 of them up after a long layoff where he clearly had a mindset change

I think we are looking at a more mature, seasoned fighter without many holes in his game. Honestly what is Masvidal not good at? Maybe attacking with submissions? But he’s an awesome boxer and for a guy that was a street fighter he has wrestling, particularly defensive wrestling. He’s very well rounded and he’s durable. I don’t think he’s necessarily the best fighter in the division but he’s made a legitimate impact imo

 

[pistolpete11]

So what do people think should happen with all the top guys at 170 lbs now? Thinking about it, there are a few directions they can go and I'm pretty much okay with all of them. Here's my shot:

Usman v Masvidal - Putting it here because the UFC needs a legit PPV headliner and this is the one that does it. Maybe Burns is more deserving, but Usman/Burns doesn't sell the same so you get Masvidal his title shot. Plus if Masvidal wins you have a chance to setup a massive PPV against someone else after.

Burns v Edwards - True #1 contender's fight that headline an ESPN card. Not sure the status of Edwards logistically right now but hopefully they can make it work.

Covington v Chiesa - Another ESPN headliner. Chiesa called them out and I think it's a good matchup.

Woodley v Lawler - This is a fight they've tried to make recently. Assuming Woodley wants to keep fighting, I think this is a good matchup that would be ideal as the #3 fight on a PPV.

Usman-Masvidal is the fight to make. After that, I'm not sure they could go wrong. It might depend on who's ready and available to fight. I do like the idea of Burns-Edwards as a title eliminator, though.

I like Covington-Chiesa as a fight, too, but I don't see that happening. Chiesa is ranked #8 and isn't a big enough name for Covington at this point.

I think you could throw Wonderboy into the mix somewhere as well.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I dont think burns or masvidal deserve title shots quite yet.

I'd like to see burns vs covington/masvidal title contender fight, with edwards getting the other guy.

 

[CDJ]

I feel bad for Leon Edwards, he’s probably the most deserving at this point in time but he’s simultaneously probably the least likely to get a shot


I forgot that him and Usman already fought on the early prelims once 5 years ago. Was a pretty easy decision for Usman- nobody has ever said that before

That may be an all time GOAT early prelim fight in terms of what the fighters ended up turning into down the road.

 

[m9]

I feel bad for Leon Edwards, he’s probably the most deserving at this point in time but he’s simultaneously probably the least likely to get a shot


I forgot that him and Usman already fought on the early prelims once 5 years ago. Was a pretty easy decision for Usman- nobody has ever said that before

That may be an all time GOAT early prelim fight in terms of what the fighters ended up turning into down the road.

That's actually a good call. Wonder what other fights fit for that. Conor McGregor v Max Holloway for sure. Actually Max has two if you add his first fight with Poirier.

 

[CDJ]

That's actually a good call. Wonder what other fights fit for that. Conor McGregor v Max Holloway for sure. Actually Max has two if you add his first fight with Poirier.

Those are def a couple of sick prelim fights- but I’m talking about the prelims to the prelims...like the fight pass/formerly Facebook shit that now is fortunately also on ESPN+

so for example Bryce Mitchell and Charles Rosa/Sam Alvey-Ryan Spann on the last ppv

this upcoming one is Menifield-Clark, Perez-Formiga (low key sick fight), and I think Herbie Burns and Evan Dunham


Super nitpicky and not at all consequential, just caught my eye when I saw Usman-Edwards was on that part of the card back in the day

 

[pistolpete11]

I feel bad for Leon Edwards, he’s probably the most deserving at this point in time but he’s simultaneously probably the least likely to get a shot


I forgot that him and Usman already fought on the early prelims once 5 years ago. Was a pretty easy decision for Usman- nobody has ever said that before

That may be an all time GOAT early prelim fight in terms of what the fighters ended up turning into down the road.

I think Edwards is very good and he's on a long streak, but his big wins during that streak are Cowboy, Gunnar, and RDA. Is that really any better than Till, Askren, and Nate or Gunnar, Maia, and Woodley? The tie breaker for me is how they are winning. Edwards is winning via decision while Masvidal is doing what he is doing and Burns KO'ed Maia and just wiped the floor with the former champ.

Don't get me wrong, he's right there and I wouldn't really object if he got the next shot, but I don't particularly feel bad for him if he doesn't either.

 

[CDJ]

I think Edwards is very good and he's on a long streak, but his big wins during that streak are Cowboy, Gunnar, and RDA. Is that really any better than Till, Askren, and Nate or Gunnar, Maia, and Woodley? The tie breaker for me is how they are winning. Edwards is winning via decision while Masvidal is doing what he is doing and Burns KO'ed Maia and just wiped the floor with the former champ.

Don't get me wrong, he's right there and I wouldn't really object if he got the next shot, but I don't particularly feel bad for him if he doesn't either.

he also does zero media at all so that doesn’t help his cause either. For a guy that wins so much nobody knows who he is over here.

i agree that he doesn’t have the best or most high profile wins out of the contenders and that for sure has an impact- but this has been an impressive streak and there are good names in there. Luque is an impressive win too. But yeah, he’s not even a little bit exciting lol

I’m not gonna cry if he doesn’t get a title shot as he doesn’t really move the needle for me entertainment wise but it is kind of funny he has the longest win streak and is imo for sure the least likely to get a title shot of Jorge/Conor/Burns/Colby/himself