GDT: UFC Fight Night: Dos Anjos vs. Usman, Dos Santos vs. Tuivasa

[td_ice]

D, your guys didn't have a good day overall, but I was rooting your way. But there were some good fights.

 

[dss97]

114-112 Fury should have been as close as it got, and that's generous.

Boxing is beyond corrupt, such a joke.

I had Wilder winning 2 rounds. Even in the 12 where Fury got floored, he got up and outboxed Wilder to the end.

 

[darko]

D, your guys didn't have a good day overall, but I was rooting your way. But there were some good fights.

Happens man. We'll have a chance to prove ourselves in February on Melbourne card with Whitaker and Israel on the card (i realize Izzy is Kiwi but it's practically the same thing).

 

[pistolpete11]

JDS-Tuivasa was a perfect example of pro vs. up-and-comer. JDS weathered the storm until he found his opening. Tuivasa panicked when he faced adversity. Then on the ground, it was almost too easy for JDS to get to mount and then Tuivasa really showed his lack of a ground game by throwing punches from the bottom. You've got to try to buck him off, tie him up, etc. Punching is very amateur. Like CM Punk shit. He would have been better off turtling and waiting for the ref to stop it.

Didn't see the rest of the card because I was watching that crooked boxing match.

 

[S E P H]

So I would say that I am casual follower of fighting, but decided to hang out with one of my friend's who is huge into UFC and got a couple questions.

Are heavyweights normally that fat? Not saying they aren't strong since one direct punch would knock me out, but they got a good deal of belly weight. Why did Tuivasa not take advantage of the map control he had? Does it really matter in UFC? He had dos Santos on the edge like 95% of the time. Do heavyweights normally not go to the ground? Tuivasa looked like a dear in the headlights when dos Santos got him there. Are ankle/low kick sweeps really effective at all? I think Tuivasa almost knocked dos Santos to the ground with one of them, but both of these guys weigh over 200 lbs so it was weird seeing someone lose their balance.

Anything I need to know for a noob like me from that fight? I saw dos Santos as a counterattack fighter, almost throwing fake jabs to get Tuivasa to bite and he eventually opened him up to that hook. Tuivasa also looked like one of those guys who was a fresh beginner who almost got into arrogant territory because he was undefeated just to get humbled after that. Does that sound accurate?

 

[Morozov]

Happens man. We'll have a chance to prove ourselves in February on Melbourne card with Whitaker and Israel on the card (i realize Izzy is Kiwi but it's practically the same thing).

Yeah, nah. You can keep Russel Crowe but you're not mooching in on this guy.

 

[darko]

Yeah, nah. You can keep Russel Crowe but you're not mooching in on this guy.

Nah you can have him back.

 

[m9]

So I would say that I am casual follower of fighting, but decided to hang out with one of my friend's who is huge into UFC and got a couple questions.

Are heavyweights normally that fat? Not saying they aren't strong since one direct punch would knock me out, but they got a good deal of belly weight. Why did Tuivasa not take advantage of the map control he had? Does it really matter in UFC? He had dos Santos on the edge like 95% of the time. Do heavyweights normally not go to the ground? Tuivasa looked like a dear in the headlights when dos Santos got him there. Are ankle/low kick sweeps really effective at all? I think Tuivasa almost knocked dos Santos to the ground with one of them, but both of these guys weigh over 200 lbs so it was weird seeing someone lose their balance.

Anything I need to know for a noob like me from that fight? I saw dos Santos as a counterattack fighter, almost throwing fake jabs to get Tuivasa to bite and he eventually opened him up to that hook. Tuivasa also looked like one of those guys who was a fresh beginner who almost got into arrogant territory because he was undefeated just to get humbled after that. Does that sound accurate?

You kind of get all shapes and sizes with heavyweights because they usually don't have to cut any weight. The weight class is 206lbs-265lbs and generally everyone is in the 230-265 range. You can look up pictures of Roy Nelson, Brock Lesnar, Stefan Struve and Daniel Cormier and question how they are all fighting in the same division. It's an interesting discussion as to whether or not having that extra weight helps or hurts the fighter, but generally fighters are closer to Dos Santos than Tuivasa. Hunt & Willis who fought earlier in the night are also kind of fat guys.

I think your breakdown of the fight is fairly correct. Dos Santos mentioned his gameplan was to backup and wait for Tuivasa to get over-aggressive and tire himself out. In a 5 round fight (main events & championship bouts only) you'll see a bit more of guys starting slow and feeling out the opponent for the 1st round.

In terms of going to the ground, it really just depends on the fighter at HW. I think generally you will have more stand-up at HW, but there are still elite wrestlers like Cain Velasquez or Daniel Cormier who can take you down and grind you out.

The most fun at HW in the UFC (at least in my opinion) was a few years back with Shane Carwin, Junior Dos Santos, Brock Lesnar, Cain Velasquez, and to a lesser extent Frank Mir. You can watch all of the fights with those guys fighting each other and you'll learn what the HW division is all about at it's best and see some different styles mixed in there. It has a lower skill level than most divisions just because there aren't many athletes at that size and the ones that are good will play other sports. It's unpredictable and the lack of cardio can lead to some bad fights, but you get some huge finishes.

 

[pistolpete11]

So I would say that I am casual follower of fighting, but decided to hang out with one of my friend's who is huge into UFC and got a couple questions.

Are heavyweights normally that fat? Not saying they aren't strong since one direct punch would knock me out, but they got a good deal of belly weight. Why did Tuivasa not take advantage of the map control he had? Does it really matter in UFC? He had dos Santos on the edge like 95% of the time. Do heavyweights normally not go to the ground? Tuivasa looked like a dear in the headlights when dos Santos got him there. Are ankle/low kick sweeps really effective at all? I think Tuivasa almost knocked dos Santos to the ground with one of them, but both of these guys weigh over 200 lbs so it was weird seeing someone lose their balance.

Anything I need to know for a noob like me from that fight? I saw dos Santos as a counterattack fighter, almost throwing fake jabs to get Tuivasa to bite and he eventually opened him up to that hook. Tuivasa also looked like one of those guys who was a fresh beginner who almost got into arrogant territory because he was undefeated just to get humbled after that. Does that sound accurate?

I think m9 pretty much covered your questions, but I'd also add that JDS is a seasoned vet. He's been around forever, fought the best of the best, and is a former champ. He's well rounded, especially for a HW, so he has more than 1 way to beat you.

I don't know that I'd call Tuivasa arrogant, but you're right that he is newer. He's only 25 years old (compared to JDS who is 37) and only has a handful of fights in the UFC under his belt. He did beat Arlovski (former champ) in his last fight, but JDS was a relatively big step up in level of competition. Maybe he did get humbled in in this fight, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[MD thaivuN]

So I would say that I am casual follower of fighting, but decided to hang out with one of my friend's who is huge into UFC and got a couple questions.

Are heavyweights normally that fat? Not saying they aren't strong since one direct punch would knock me out, but they got a good deal of belly weight. Why did Tuivasa not take advantage of the map control he had? Does it really matter in UFC? He had dos Santos on the edge like 95% of the time. Do heavyweights normally not go to the ground? Tuivasa looked like a dear in the headlights when dos Santos got him there. Are ankle/low kick sweeps really effective at all? I think Tuivasa almost knocked dos Santos to the ground with one of them, but both of these guys weigh over 200 lbs so it was weird seeing someone lose their balance.

Anything I need to know for a noob like me from that fight? I saw dos Santos as a counterattack fighter, almost throwing fake jabs to get Tuivasa to bite and he eventually opened him up to that hook. Tuivasa also looked like one of those guys who was a fresh beginner who almost got into arrogant territory because he was undefeated just to get humbled after that. Does that sound accurate?

Heavyweight is the division where fighters tend to neglect a lot of basic MMA skills and most of them can't be bothered with proper diet. As such, you also have a rare selection of heavyweight with an actual ground game, because, by nature, grappling is exhausting.

Heavyweight MMA growth rate is so slow that it's pretty much a meme that a 30 year old heavyweight is still a baby prospect. Tuivasa, at 25, is not out of the womb yet.

 

[S E P H]

You kind of get all shapes and sizes with heavyweights because they usually don't have to cut any weight. The weight class is 206lbs-265lbs and generally everyone is in the 230-265 range. You can look up pictures of Roy Nelson, Brock Lesnar, Stefan Struve and Daniel Cormier and question how they are all fighting in the same division. It's an interesting discussion as to whether or not having that extra weight helps or hurts the fighter, but generally fighters are closer to Dos Santos than Tuivasa. Hunt & Willis who fought earlier in the night are also kind of fat guys.

I think your breakdown of the fight is fairly correct. Dos Santos mentioned his gameplan was to backup and wait for Tuivasa to get over-aggressive and tire himself out. In a 5 round fight (main events & championship bouts only) you'll see a bit more of guys starting slow and feeling out the opponent for the 1st round.

In terms of going to the ground, it really just depends on the fighter at HW. I think generally you will have more stand-up at HW, but there are still elite wrestlers like Cain Velasquez or Daniel Cormier who can take you down and grind you out.

The most fun at HW in the UFC (at least in my opinion) was a few years back with Shane Carwin, Junior Dos Santos, Brock Lesnar, Cain Velasquez, and to a lesser extent Frank Mir. You can watch all of the fights with those guys fighting each other and you'll learn what the HW division is all about at it's best and see some different styles mixed in there. It has a lower skill level than most divisions just because there aren't many athletes at that size and the ones that are good will play other sports. It's unpredictable and the lack of cardio can lead to some bad fights, but you get some huge finishes.

I think m9 pretty much covered your questions, but I'd also add that JDS is a seasoned vet. He's been around forever, fought the best of the best, and is a former champ. He's well rounded, especially for a HW, so he has more than 1 way to beat you.

I don't know that I'd call Tuivasa arrogant, but you're right that he is newer. He's only 25 years old (compared to JDS who is 37) and only has a handful of fights in the UFC under his belt. He did beat Arlovski (former champ) in his last fight, but JDS was a relatively big step up in level of competition. Maybe he did get humbled in in this fight, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Heavyweight is the division where fighters tend to neglect a lot of basic MMA skills and most of them can't be bothered with proper diet. As such, you also have a rare selection of heavyweight with an actual ground game, because, by nature, grappling is exhausting.

Heavyweight MMA growth rate is so slow that it's pretty much a meme that a 30 year old heavyweight is still a baby prospect. Tuivasa, at 25, is not out of the womb yet.

Thanks for all the responses. I got AXS channel which normally shows concerts from many genres and musical documentaries, but on Friday they have the UFC fights and the Japanese WWE wrestling thing, lol. I've watched a few lightweight fights and they tend to go to ground a lot and then I saw the heaviness of the heavyweights so was wondering how much their weight limits their mobility. They almost looked like boxers who were allowed to kick.

Who would you guys say is the best heavyweight fighter currently (and where does dos Santos rank in that list)? As @MD thaivuN said, if they lack a lot of basic MMA skills which division has the most talented fighters?

 

[Avs_19]

Who would you guys say is the best heavyweight fighter currently (and where does dos Santos rank in that list)? As @MD thaivuN said, if they lack a lot of basic MMA skills which division has the most talented fighters?

Daniel Cormier is the HW and LHW champion right now so he's probably the best. The other guy in the conversation for me would be Stipe Miocic but Cormier knocked him out to win the belt. Cormier's teammate, Cain Velasquez, might be the most talented HW when he's on his game but he's always injured and hasn't fought in two years now. Dos Santos is currently ranked #7 but I think he's still a top five HW and would beat a few guys ranked above him.

I think the middle weight classes are the best. That would be lightweight (155), welterweight (170), and middleweight (185) but featherweight (145) is also very strong right now. If I had to pick just one though it'd be 155. It's the deepest and it's just stacked at the top with Khabib, McGregor, Ferguson, Poirier, and Lee.

If you want to watch two elite fighters then you should check out the fight this upcoming Saturday. It's Max Holloway vs. Brian Ortega for the 145 lb belt. You never know how a fight will turn out but on paper that's one of the best fights this year.

 

[S E P H]

Daniel Cormier is the HW and LHW champion right now so he's probably the best. The other guy in the conversation for me would be Stipe Miocic but Cormier knocked him out to win the belt. Cormier's teammate, Cain Velasquez, might be the most talented HW when he's on his game but he's always injured and hasn't fought in two years now. Dos Santos is currently ranked #7 but I think he's still a top five HW and would beat a few guys ranked above him.

I think the middle weight classes are the best. That would be lightweight (155), welterweight (170), and middleweight (185) but featherweight (145) is also very strong right now. If I had to pick just one though it'd be 155. It's the deepest and it's just stacked at the top with Khabib, McGregor, Ferguson, Poirier, and Lee.

If you want to watch two elite fighters then you should check out the fight this upcoming Saturday. It's Max Holloway vs. Brian Ortega for the 145 lb belt. You never know how a fight will turn out but on paper that's one of the best fights this year.

Awesome, I'll try and catch it!

 

[pistolpete11]

Thanks for all the responses. I got AXS channel which normally shows concerts from many genres and musical documentaries, but on Friday they have the UFC fights and the Japanese WWE wrestling thing, lol. I've watched a few lightweight fights and they tend to go to ground a lot and then I saw the heaviness of the heavyweights so was wondering how much their weight limits their mobility. They almost looked like boxers who were allowed to kick.

Who would you guys say is the best heavyweight fighter currently (and where does dos Santos rank in that list)? As @MD thaivuN said, if they lack a lot of basic MMA skills which division has the most talented fighters?

HW are typically either boxers or wrestlers. There are exceptions that prove the rule, but typically you don't see a whole lot of BJJ guys, karate guys, Muay Thai guys, etc. at HW.

I'd have to second a lot of what @Avs_19 said. Cormier (or DC as he's usually referred to as) is the HW (and LHW) champ at the moment, so it's hard to argue he's the best HW. He's a solid boxer, but his base is wrestling. He knocked Stipe out in the first round to win the belt, but typically, he's looking to get the fight to the ground and use his wrestling.

I'd also put JDS in the top 5 current HW, but he's such a pro he could beat anybody in the world on any given night.

155lb is probably the best division right now. At the top, you have Khabib, Conor, and Ferguson. Khabib has some of the most dominant wrestling the UFC has ever seen. Conor is a crossover mega star with some very good power and boxing (for MMA). Ferguson has a very weird fighting style and personality, but he's a very good BJJ player. But there are a ton of great fighters in that division with a ton of different styles and personalities.

As Avs said, though, this weekend's main event is for the 145lb belt and I'm so excited for it. Max Holloway is the champ. He's a very up tempo, exciting fighter. Brian Ortega is a BJJ whiz who's really showed some improved boxing. In his last fight, he knocked out Frankie Edgar which is nearly impossible with a beautiful upper cut. This fight was already scheduled, but Max had to pull out at the last minute. The details have always been fuzzy to me, but a lot of people think it had to do with his weight cut. Both guys actually are very big for the division and might move up to 155lb at some point in their career. As a bonus, for me anyway, they are both very respectful fighters as well. The shit talkers can be fun, but it's refreshing to see guys like this who just treat it as a sport.

 

[S E P H]

Maybe because I am still a total noob at this stuff, but it is sort of hilarious and crazy to imagine that a dude who weighs 145 lbs can pretty much wreck a dude in normal life who can outweigh him by almost 30 lbs if he ever got into a sticky situation. Or do the guys at 145 lbs have a limitation in the amount of power they can throw a punch? Or do they tend to go after the weak physical areas of the body like the solar plexus, eyes/face, patella, and ankles?

 

[m9]

Maybe because I am still a total noob at this stuff, but it is sort of hilarious and crazy to imagine that a dude who weighs 145 lbs can pretty much wreck a dude in normal life who can outweigh him by almost 30 lbs if he ever got into a sticky situation. Or do the guys at 145 lbs have a limitation in the amount of power they can throw a punch? Or do they tend to go after the weak physical areas of the body like the solar plexus, eyes/face, patella, and ankles?

Definitely some power limitations when you get down in weight, but there are always guys that can hit hard. I'm sure John Lineker (who weighs 140lbs) could knock me out even though I outweigh him by almost 100lbs.

Also it's important to remember that guys are cutting a ton of weight for the fights sometimes, so you'll see a guy listed at 145lbs who is 160 or 165lbs for the fight and walks around at 175lbs or 180lbs most of the time. The example I always use is that when Chael Sonnen was fighting in the UFC at 6'1 185lbs we ran into him in Vegas and he he was a massive dude compared to me even though I was around 6'2 200. For his most recent fight against Fedor, he was fighting at HW and didn't need to cut any weight so he weighed in at 227lbs which is probably closer to what he was weighing in between fights.

 

[pistolpete11]

Maybe because I am still a total noob at this stuff, but it is sort of hilarious and crazy to imagine that a dude who weighs 145 lbs can pretty much wreck a dude in normal life who can outweigh him by almost 30 lbs if he ever got into a sticky situation. Or do the guys at 145 lbs have a limitation in the amount of power they can throw a punch? Or do they tend to go after the weak physical areas of the body like the solar plexus, eyes/face, patella, and ankles?

The division weights are very misleading due to weight cutting. Everyone has their opinion on weight cutting, but it's the way things are at the moment, but it's not unusual for guys to cut 25lb just to make weight. Then they re-hydrate and put most of that weigh back on by the time fight night comes. So Holloway for example, probably weighs close to 170lb when he steps into the octagon. The higher weight classes can cut even more. DC when he was cutting to the 205lb limit for LHW, he probably weighed close to 240lbs on fight night.

Size is definitely a factor in power, but technique is also important. And some guys just have that natural power that I'm not sure how to define.