GDT: UFC 258: Usman vs. Burns
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Avs_19
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- Jun 28, 2007
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Usman is a great fighter and one of the pound for pound best right now but people need to chill with the GSP and GOAT WW stuff. Dana's a promoter so he's going to be hyperbolic but others don't need to be. During GSP's 12 fight win streak, 11 of those fights were title fights and 9 of those wins were title defenses. Usman has a ways to go.
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Avs_19
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I'm not a big fan of the Masvidal rematch in general but the potential TUF component makes it that much worse. I think the fight goes the same way but you can at least say Masvidal took it late notice and there's no clear cut contender. If they make Edwards vs. Covington then there could be a deserving contender as soon as April and they'd have to sit around for who knows how long for TUF to finish.
chicagoskycam
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Usman is the greatest fighter that nobody really likes. His resume speaks for itself but I don't really get excited for his fights with the exception of the one against Jorge, and that was just because of Masvidal. I think a rematch where Jorge gets a full camp is a good fight next.
chicagoskycam
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I think he had to do that because his nose was already busted, I can see Usman trading with Jorge next time. Usman is not oblivious to the talk of him being a boring fighter and still has a chip on his shoulder. You saw his reaction after the Burns win and I could see him standing up with Masvidal more next time.
I think it will be a better fight, I think Usman is on a different level than Jorge though.
I wonder what a Usman/Wonderboy fight would look like.
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Perennial
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In combat sports where the goal is to inflict physical harm on your opponent, it's absolutely something to get worked up over if a fighter is upgrading their ability to perform with the use of banned substances
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chicagoskycam
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honestly, I think they all do at some point. It’s much harder now to get away with it
All anti-doping does is give wealthy athletes an advantage and f*** over clean athletes who take tainted supplements while also changing the threshold of what makes one a violator constantly (shoutout Tom Lawlor’s situation vs Jon Jones situation)
and no it really isn’t imo
Perennial
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It's fraud, for one, and it's also jeopardizing someone else's health
So, whether you think so or not, it is a big deal when someone uses banned substances to get an edge in combat sports
you didn’t address any of my points, thus my mind is unchanged
Buddy I think the “they’re jeopardizing someone else’s health” bridge was crossed long ago. Their job is basically to give another human CTE, PED or not. I’ve done a complete 180 on Anti-doping, I used to have the same opinion until I saw the inequality and shitty science involved with it
the cons of anti-doping outweigh the pros is what I’m trying to say. Ruining people’s careers for no good reason trumps catching the odd guy here and there, especially when said perpetrators are typically undercard fighters. The big names only pop with tainted supplements- Dillashaw is really the only star to pop and that’s because he used a dinosaur cycling PED. These big names don’t pop and it’s not because a lot of them aren’t using- they can just afford designer drugs that beat the testing in the constantly evolving PED world. Luke Thomas has broken this down extensively and at the end of the day it did completely shift my view point- he’s cited studies and research so it’s not just his opinion. Anti-doping is just rather ineffective at doing what it wants to do, which is create a level playing field
in theory it’s a great idea, in practice it simply hasn’t been and I’m not so sure they’ll ever get to a point in the near future where it is actually effective. It’s basically the War on Drugs 2.0 where the same shit is happening- those who are disciplined are almost never the people at the top. Careers have been derailed for something that is the 1980’s/1990’s equivalent to normal civilians getting thrown in prison for pot. Hell its kind of worse than that in a way as they have shifting thresholds- they ruined Tom Lawlor’s career yet if he popped today for the same thing he’d get a slap on the wrist. The inconvenience generally didn’t happen to the elite in our society during the initial drug war, and it generally doesn’t happen to the established fighters in the game today
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pistolpete11
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chicagoskycam
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It is a big deal but the problem is how you address it. It's not fair when someone with wealth... like a Lance Armstrong can afford to pay for an entire program when a new guy doesn't have the means to do that. So there are fighters in the UFC that fit in this category where the money is no issue to gain an edge. Every day they are creating a new substance that avoids detection. How do you fix it.
Af far as Usman he seems a bit like a natural freak that works out a ton. If we want to talk about roids relating to that pic, it could be. One of the side effects of roids tends to be the sacrifice in cardio and he doesn't appear to have that issue at all but who knows. These guys could all be on something we don't know about ...
I forgot who Rogan had on his podcast talking about PED's and how they just change the chemical makeup of different substances to avoid detection. The guest was advocating for no testing to even the playing field. I would bet the majority of these guys used something while training at some point in the careers, especially pre UFC
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and then on top of it they shift their standards, thus admitting their science was off. It can’t be trusted when you’re costing people thousands upon thousands of dollars
- Jan 23, 2010
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For sure. I've been pretty vocal against the super intense drug testing for many, many years and I remember listening to Luke Thomas somewhat recently and I generally agree with his facts and reasoning.
If they want to have basic pre-fight & post-fight test to ensure nothing is going on around the actual fight then sure, whatever - but I don't need them chasing fighters around the world. I have never understood what they are trying to accomplish with that and it's not worth ruining careers with this flawed system.
pistolpete11
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Yeah. Luke Thomas has changed my opinion on it, too. It would be great if USADA was some infallible organization that was catching all the cheaters, but they are far from that.
Mostly, though, the PED discussion is just exhausting to me. I just want them to get to a point where they aren't ruining careers and pulling fighters off cards because of tainted supplements or smoking weed. And yeah, USADA chasing fighters around the world seems like a gross misuse of money. Pull that back and give that money to the fighters.
Mostly, though, the PED discussion is just exhausting to me. I just want them to get to a point where they aren't ruining careers and pulling fighters off cards because of tainted supplements or smoking weed. And yeah, USADA chasing fighters around the world seems like a gross misuse of money. Pull that back and give that money to the fighters.
- Jan 23, 2010
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For sure. My thought has always been that this is just part of the natural evolution of the sport. You had an era where everyone was doing it and nobody cared, so then they went overkill and tried to catch everyone. Now we're settling back into a middle area where you see a few guys busted for doing stupid things but for the most part it's not a topic. EPO has proven to have serious side effects, so suspending TJ Dillashaw for that makes sense. But most of the other things flagged are just nonsense ways for the corrupt commissions (especially NSAC) to make enough money to keep their charade going.
Idk how tf he did it but Marquez has parlayed the Miley Cyrus stuff into donating to the barstool small business relief fund
Once they reach a certain amount of $ donated he will shave MC into his chest hair. I don’t really see the appeal so hopefully people just donate for the cause itself I guess lol
Once they reach a certain amount of $ donated he will shave MC into his chest hair. I don’t really see the appeal so hopefully people just donate for the cause itself I guess lol
YNWA14
Onbreekbaar
- Dec 29, 2010
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I mean, it's not pure but there will always be people looking to get an edge. There's a lot of misconceptions about PEDs in general (they don't just turn you into muscle bound, incredibly awesome freaks). In a perfect world nobody would be on them and we'd see the natural human limits, but that also wouldn't be as entertaining for most and at the end of the day sports and major athletic competitions are really just a form of entertainment. Top athletes in pretty much every sport are on PEDs.
