GDT: UFC 247: Jones vs. Reyes

[pistolpete11]

I just rewatched rounds 2 and 3. Commentary turned off.

Round 2: I see absolutely zero justification for giving that round to Jones. Reyes clearly landed more. Even if you take into consideration pressure/octagon control, which should not be weighed as heavily as damage even with the old rules, you can't claim the control for Jones when he literally ran away twice. Once he literally turned his back and ran away, Reyes got him pinned against the cage for a little bit (although, he didn't land a whole lot during that time), and then Jones ran away to get away from the cage. Jones did move forward for much of the round, but every time Reyes got within a few feet of the cage, he'd blitz Jones to get him to back up and/or circle out of it. So even in terms of control, I think it was even. With the more damage and better strikes, I think this round clearly went to Reyes. 2 judges gave it to Jones.

Round 3: Honestly, it was a lot of the same stuff as round 2. Again, Jones was marching forward for most of the round, but every time Reyes got close to the cage, he'd blitz and/or circle out of it. He maybe got pushed a little closer this round and didn't throw as many strikes (fatigue starting to set in I suppose), but he landed more and better shots (including that head kick and a solid, solid uppercut which were maybe the 2 best shots of the whole fight...?). Jones shot for 2 takedowns, but Reyes stuffed both. I'm not sure how you're supposed to score that, but I'd say it's a wash. Jones also literally turned his back and ran away during one of Reyes's blitz, again. Honestly, it was closer in my memory than it was when during the rewatch. I think it pretty clearly went to Reyes. Again, 2 judges gave it to Jones.


I just don't see it. I think this was a pretty clear 48-47 win for Reyes. Either that or I have a very fundamental misunderstanding of the rules and scoring system.

 

[pistolpete11]

He didn’t come like that at all in the podcast. Yeah, I listen to a ton of Rogan regardless of who’s on.

I think these guys are all about the act sometimes

That acting is what bugs me. The same thing happened when I listened to Kevin Lee on Rogan's podcast. If that's who he was all the time, I'd be rooting for him nearly every time he stepped in the cage. But everywhere else he's this brash, shit talking, overconfident, Conor wannabe. I get why they do it, but one way or another, they are lying to us, and that bugs me. I just want authenticity. I like Frankie Edgar just as much as I like Mike Bisping. Or GSP as much as I like Nate Diaz. I can't stand the Colby's, Cejudo's, Lee's, Usman's, etc.

 

[Neutrinos]

That acting is what bugs me. The same thing happened when I listened to Kevin Lee on Rogan's podcast. If that's who he was all the time, I'd be rooting for him nearly every time he stepped in the cage. But everywhere else he's this brash, **** talking, overconfident, Conor wannabe. I get why they do it, but one way or another, they are lying to us, and that bugs me. I just want authenticity. I like Frankie Edgar just as much as I like Mike Bisping. Or GSP as much as I like Nate Diaz. I can't stand the Colby's, Cejudo's, Lee's, Usman's, etc.

I think you can add Adesanya to that list

 

[chicagoskycam]

That acting is what bugs me. The same thing happened when I listened to Kevin Lee on Rogan's podcast. If that's who he was all the time, I'd be rooting for him nearly every time he stepped in the cage. But everywhere else he's this brash, **** talking, overconfident, Conor wannabe. I get why they do it, but one way or another, they are lying to us, and that bugs me. I just want authenticity. I like Frankie Edgar just as much as I like Mike Bisping. Or GSP as much as I like Nate Diaz. I can't stand the Colby's, Cejudo's, Lee's, Usman's, etc.

yeah, I view it as them trying to sell these fights as well as themselves. Nate is very much himself at all times.

I enjoy the theater a bit especially when the guys actually don’t like each other

 

[pistolpete11]

I think you can add Adesanya to that list

I like Stylebender. I think he has that same swagger all the time. That's who he is, so it's cool by me.

I see why people wouldn't like him, but he's in a different category than those other guys IMO.

 

[pistolpete11]

yeah, I view it as them trying to sell these fights as well as themselves. Nate is very much himself at all times.

I enjoy the theater a bit especially when the guys actually don’t like each other

Depends what you mean by theater, I guess. I like shit talking as much as the next guy. But like Cejudo calls himself the king of cringe. Colby's whole schtick is so over the top and then he admitted it was an act. The act is bad enough, but if you're going to go that route, you've got to at least stick to it. You can't go in and out of it. I think that's my problem with Usman and Lee, too. They go in and out of being the confident assholes and humble martial artists.

 

[Neutrinos]

I like Stylebender. I think he has that same swagger all the time. That's who he is, so it's cool by me.

I see why people wouldn't like him, but he's in a different category than those other guys IMO.

Some of the things he was saying at the Romero press conference lead me to believe he's trying too hard to seem like a badass

 

[chicagoskycam]

Just watched the Jones fight again, Reyes won that no doubt. I even thought the 4th was close. Takedowns for a second should not factor in that much, no damage.

 

[m9]

Why or how people get to those scores is an important factor, though. 20% and 40% of people can be wrong.

Reyes outstruck Jones in each of those rounds and Jones didn't land any of his take downs. As I mentioned above, Jones was literally running away from Reyes at points, so I can't even buy the pressure/octagon control argument. Definitely not for both rounds, but not even one of those rounds from my memory. I see no way 49-46 is justifiable. I strongly, strongly disagree with 48-47 Jones, too.

Also, according to that handy MMA Decisions website you told me about, 14 media members had it 48-47 for Reyes and 7 had it 48-47 for Reyes. No one had it 49-46 for Jones. Fans might not mean much, but 87.7% had round 2 for Reyes. 85.2% had round 3 for Reyes. That's based on 1700 submissions, so not bad. I don't know how those percentages effect the probability and I know it's not entirely your point, but I'd imagine that bumps the 48-47 for Reyes over 50% which means it's a bad decision. Not a robbery, but a bad decision.

It's just the inherent issue with having such a small sample size of 3 judges. Those MMAdecision numbers actually make more sense than my guesses, because if you slightly discount those #'s for people who hate Jones you are back to 60% or so in favor of Reyes winning which seems about right to me. I think I calculated my numbers wrong anyway, but the actual # isn't as important as the overall thought.

The 49-46 judge is a big outlier for sure which is why it doesn't come up with 21 media members on that site. But once you get to 50 -100 media members you'll probably see another one. Ultimately that scorecard didn't really matter (which is why you have 3 judges instead of 1) .

I'm fine with saying it's a bad decision, no argument there. For me I'm always someone who internalizes things, so if I'm Reyes and that result comes up I'm pissed that I didn't do anything effective for the last 10 minutes and left my chances to win at 60-70% when if he puts up more of a fight for the last 10 minutes his odds go up dramatically. And yes, easy for me to say that a guy should have done better in championship rounds against arguably the best fighter of all-time. I hate the saying "don't leave it in the hands of the judges" as much as anyone, but if you're going to leave it to them then you at least have to give yourself some more outs.

I just rewatched rounds 2 and 3. Commentary turned off.

Round 2: I see absolutely zero justification for giving that round to Jones. Reyes clearly landed more. Even if you take into consideration pressure/octagon control, which should not be weighed as heavily as damage even with the old rules, you can't claim the control for Jones when he literally ran away twice. Once he literally turned his back and ran away, Reyes got him pinned against the cage for a little bit (although, he didn't land a whole lot during that time), and then Jones ran away to get away from the cage. Jones did move forward for much of the round, but every time Reyes got within a few feet of the cage, he'd blitz Jones to get him to back up and/or circle out of it. So even in terms of control, I think it was even. With the more damage and better strikes, I think this round clearly went to Reyes. 2 judges gave it to Jones.

Round 3: Honestly, it was a lot of the same stuff as round 2. Again, Jones was marching forward for most of the round, but every time Reyes got close to the cage, he'd blitz and/or circle out of it. He maybe got pushed a little closer this round and didn't throw as many strikes (fatigue starting to set in I suppose), but he landed more and better shots (including that head kick and a solid, solid uppercut which were maybe the 2 best shots of the whole fight...?). Jones shot for 2 takedowns, but Reyes stuffed both. I'm not sure how you're supposed to score that, but I'd say it's a wash. Jones also literally turned his back and ran away during one of Reyes's blitz, again. Honestly, it was closer in my memory than it was when during the rewatch. I think it pretty clearly went to Reyes. Again, 2 judges gave it to Jones.


I just don't see it. I think this was a pretty clear 48-47 win for Reyes. Either that or I have a very fundamental misunderstanding of the rules and scoring system.

Good breakdown, I had similar thoughts on initial viewing.

 

[m9]

Just watched the Jones fight again, Reyes won that no doubt. I even thought the 4th was close. Takedowns for a second should not factor in that much, no damage.

I agree that the takedowns shouldn't matter. And honestly, I don't think they did matter. It became a narrative because Jones brought it up after the fight, but it was a bit of a red herring because as others mentioned they weren't a factor in the swing rounds 2 & 3.

 

[Peter Griffin]

When initially watching the fight I thought Reyes got robbed but now I feel it was just a razor close fight that ended up going the champs way as they often do. I don't think Reyes should get an immediate re-match, I'd like to see him in another 5 round fight, maybe against Thiago Santos or Anthony Smith with Jones facing the winner of Blachowitz/Anderson next(unless he moves to HW).

 

[BGDDYKWL]

I agree it wasn't a robbery, but that doesn't mean it was the right decision either. It was a close fight, but I also think it is kind of hand wavy to say, "It was a close fight so nothing to see here". As others have said, the judging was an issue all night.

I do think part of the outrage with this decision was a culmination of the bad judging all night. It's easier to highlight it in the main event than the undercard, but it certainly wasn't the most egregious scoring even of the night.

Maybe I'm misremembering something here, but I think Reyes had Jones literally running away from him in the second and/or third round. One judge gave Jones round 2, the other gave him round 3, and one gave him both. So in a round where Reyes out struck Jones, stuffed all of Jones take downs, and had Jones retreating, 2 of the judges gave that round to Jones. That needs to be explained to me. On top of the other issues with the judging, it just brings into question the competency of the judging.

I can only speak for myself, but here's how I'd get there. Reyes wins the first, if I'm a judge and the second is close I'm tempted to give it to Jones just so he doesn't have a nearly insurmountable hole to climb out of when really no damage was done in either round. Round 3 then finishes and I feel Jones did just enough to edge him, and that's how we get 49-46. I had it 48-47 Jones, but I'll always give a very close round to the champ, and I think some judges share that mentality.

But that's not in the rule book. You might hope that's the case, but that can't (or shouldn't) be considered by the judges.

That's an interesting debate. Tie (or virtual tie) should go to the champ IMO, or be a 10-10. And you're right that's not in the rules. But I do think it's an unwritten viewpoint that many share.

I thought going into this fight that Jones just wasn't getting up for these fights, but I'm starting to come around to this idea now. I mean, in his most recent fights, he KO'ed one of the GOAT in DC, smashed the 3rd or 4th best LHW of the last decade in Gus, and smashed Smith, but even though I thought he beat Santos, it wasn't a convincing win considering Santos was on one leg. Now he, in my opinion, lost to Reyes, maybe the long career and hard life he's lived is starting to catch up to him.

I really don't know what to attribute it to. Probably a combination of everything we discussed. The biggest takeaway for me is his wrestling. He's never been a world beater on the feet, and outside of a head kick doesn't have fight finishing power. But his wrestling has severely declined over the years. That specifically I have to point to whatever he was taking. The two biggest advantages that brings are strength and explosiveness. Losing that has severely hindered his wrestling. I mean he took Sonnen down in like 3 seconds and I'd bet every penny I have that a somewhat prime Sonnen takes Reyes down in under 30 seconds.

I'd still like to see him fight Reyes again, at HW, or against Izzy before I say the end of Jon Jones is nigh, but it's more questionable now than ever.

I do think it's fair to say the Jones version we saw during his prime run is gone/over. His wrestling is what made him a truly scary force, particularly during his ascension to the title. That is completely gone now. And I get it against DC, but Santos, Smith, and Reyes? These are guys Jones should be able to take down, and I have no question prime Jones would have.

Pressure doesn't count as much as damage, though. In what rounds did Jones inflict more damage? 4 and 5 for sure, but which other round?

I'm definitely a damage guy as well. That should always carry the most weight. Where round 3 gets interesting is neither guy was remotely close to finishing the fight or landing any devastating shots. So if Reyes outlands him 23-21 say, but Jones is clearly the aggressor for 90% of the round, most judges will give Jones that round.

That was a tough one to score. Lewis clearly won round 1 and Latifi clearly won round 2. The third was almost a perfect split between rounds 1 and 2. A takedown with control has to count for something, but compared the damage? Who knows? I'd have given it to Lewis as well, but this one was really up for interpretation.

This was really tough to score. What it came down to for me was Latifi didn't use that takedown/time to attempt to do anything. I'm a wrestling fan, but you have to be trying to land punches, advance position, go for subs, etc , in order for me to score it heavily in your favor. Latifi was just stalling. I'm never gonna reward a fighter for that. I'm gonna reward a fighter who with a minute left is in full attack mode throwing head kicks, flying knees, looping bombs, etc.

Tough to argue against her, but unfortunately, she will be a victim of the no competition thing like Mighty Mouse and she'll also be a victim of having to fight above her natural weight for so long. The FGOAT is unquestionably Nunes, though. Nobody can match wins against Cyborg, Ronda, Meisha, Holly, and Valentina (x2, although I know some people say Valentina won the second one). Plus GDR (x2), Budd, and Pennington. She has a couple of losses, but that's way better than beating up some girls in a newly formed division.

I really hope that doesn't happen. What I'd really like to see is another fight with Nunes. I think Shevchenko takes it and IMO that makes her the FGOAT. She's more skilled than Nunes, and amazingly seems to still be improving.

 

[m9]

When initially watching the fight I thought Reyes got robbed but now I feel it was just a razor close fight that ended up going the champs way as they often do. I don't think Reyes should get an immediate re-match, I'd like to see him in another 5 round fight, maybe against Thiago Santos or Anthony Smith with Jones facing the winner of Blachowitz/Anderson next(unless he moves to HW).

I agree on seeing Jones v the winner of that fight next.

Anthony Smith is scheduled to fight Glover at the end of April, so the timing isn't great for Reyes. Santos is hurt and gone for awhile.

The fight that makes sense to me for Reyes is a rematch of his fight vs Oezdemir for 5 rounds. It was an extremely close fight the first time and would be a great ESPN main event.

It's almost a no-lose for the UFC as well as if Oezdemir won it presents a new challenger for Jones anyway, so it's really the perfect #1 contender fight.

 

[pistolpete11]

It's just the inherent issue with having such a small sample size of 3 judges. Those MMAdecision numbers actually make more sense than my guesses, because if you slightly discount those #'s for people who hate Jones you are back to 60% or so in favor of Reyes winning which seems about right to me. I think I calculated my numbers wrong anyway, but the actual # isn't as important as the overall thought.

The 49-46 judge is a big outlier for sure which is why it doesn't come up with 21 media members on that site. But once you get to 50 -100 media members you'll probably see another one. Ultimately that scorecard didn't really matter (which is why you have 3 judges instead of 1) .

I'm fine with saying it's a bad decision, no argument there. For me I'm always someone who internalizes things, so if I'm Reyes and that result comes up I'm pissed that I didn't do anything effective for the last 10 minutes and left my chances to win at 60-70% when if he puts up more of a fight for the last 10 minutes his odds go up dramatically. And yes, easy for me to say that a guy should have done better in championship rounds against arguably the best fighter of all-time. I hate the saying "don't leave it in the hands of the judges" as much as anyone, but if you're going to leave it to them then you at least have to give yourself some more outs.



Good breakdown, I had similar thoughts on initial viewing.

More judges might help, but more competent judges is more important. I had it 48-47 watching live and after rewatching it, I'm even more convinced that is the only correct scorecard. But I get it, watching live and making a decision at the time is a different thing. So I strongly disagree with 48-47 for Jones, but it's not blatant incompetency. But 49-46 is just flat out wrong. Outside of the 1/3 of media members on MMA Decisions, have you heard anybody say they had it for Jones let alone had it 49-46 for Jones? On top of the other issues that night, that's just a bad judge. And since the UFC can't really do anything about it, he'll probably be there the next time they go to Texas...just like that Byrd lady in Nevada.

And sorry, but saying he should have done more in rounds 4 and 5 is a BS justification. Jones should have done more in rounds 1-3.

 

[chicagoskycam]

Got to listen to Big John on his podcast today and he had some good thoughts. Judges need to adhere to the scoring and often what we get is judges that score boxing and then score MMA. Per the rules, takedowns with no damage or control should not factor in. Reyes tagged Jones with an elbow as he was getting up from a takedown so in reality that's a more of a positive for Reyes than the takedown. Ring control with little or equal activity doesn't matter. Defending takedowns doesn't factor in.

He thought it was close but scored it 3 rounds to 2 for Reyes. I think he flipped the 3rd and 4th where I had Reyes 1 - 3. It's a close fight and the huge problem was the one scorecard. Now Reyes has to do it again and you know Jones will adjust.

 

[pistolpete11]

I do think part of the outrage with this decision was a culmination of the bad judging all night. It's easier to highlight it in the main event than the undercard, but it certainly wasn't the most egregious scoring even of the night.

I think so too, but the main event is obviously more consequential. So it's naturally going to get more attention. If there weren't other terrible decisions all night and the judges gave it to Jones 48-47, I think there's less heated debate about it. But those other decisions and the 49-46 card make people say "WTF is going on here."

I can only speak for myself, but here's how I'd get there. Reyes wins the first, if I'm a judge and the second is close I'm tempted to give it to Jones just so he doesn't have a nearly insurmountable hole to climb out of when really no damage was done in either round. Round 3 then finishes and I feel Jones did just enough to edge him, and that's how we get 49-46. I had it 48-47 Jones, but I'll always give a very close round to the champ, and I think some judges share that mentality.

You just can't do that, though. That's changing the rules of the sport and really unfair to Reyes. I also think it was pretty significant in favor of Reyes. He outstruck him by like 11 or something and had Jones running from him multiple times. He also had Jones pinned against the cage and just rolling with the punches at one point. So the forward pressure justification just doesn't cut it for me.

That's an interesting debate. Tie (or virtual tie) should go to the champ IMO, or be a 10-10. And you're right that's not in the rules. But I do think it's an unwritten viewpoint that many share.

Unfortunately, I think that's true, but after rewatching it, I also don't think either round was particularly close.

I really don't know what to attribute it to. Probably a combination of everything we discussed. The biggest takeaway for me is his wrestling. He's never been a world beater on the feet, and outside of a head kick doesn't have fight finishing power. But his wrestling has severely declined over the years. That specifically I have to point to whatever he was taking. The two biggest advantages that brings are strength and explosiveness. Losing that has severely hindered his wrestling. I mean he took Sonnen down in like 3 seconds and I'd bet every penny I have that a somewhat prime Sonnen takes Reyes down in under 30 seconds.

I think it's mostly age. I'm 100% convinced he was on PEDs throughout his career, but a lot of the guys he was fighting were, too. He's 32 now. That's past his prime physically, so yeah, he's just not as explosive as these young guys. Especially these young (at least in terms of MMA age) guys like Reyes.

I'm definitely a damage guy as well. That should always carry the most weight. Where round 3 gets interesting is neither guy was remotely close to finishing the fight or landing any devastating shots. So if Reyes outlands him 23-21 say, but Jones is clearly the aggressor for 90% of the round, most judges will give Jones that round.

Reyes outlanded him in round 3. You're right it wasn't by as much, but unless I'm forgetting something in rounds 4 or 5, Reyes landed the 2 hardest shots in the fight (a head kick and a really, really solid uppercut) in round 3. Jones landed a stiff jab and other than that it was just those kicks to the knee. I think Reyes clearly did more damage in round 3.

I really hope that doesn't happen. What I'd really like to see is another fight with Nunes. I think Shevchenko takes it and IMO that makes her the FGOAT. She's more skilled than Nunes, and amazingly seems to still be improving.

I think Nunes has only been getting better, too, so who knows. I think Valentina is more technical, but even if she wins, I'm not sure she's the FGOAT. She'd still have lost to Nunes twice and it's unfair to her, but the competition is just not the same. I mean, in 5 years, do we even remember who Chookagian is? Because I know we will remember Cyborg, Ronda, Holly, Tate, etc.

 

[m9]

More judges might help, but more competent judges is more important. I had it 48-47 watching live and after rewatching it, I'm even more convinced that is the only correct scorecard. But I get it, watching live and making a decision at the time is a different thing. So I strongly disagree with 48-47 for Jones, but it's not blatant incompetency. But 49-46 is just flat out wrong. Outside of the 1/3 of media members on MMA Decisions, have you heard anybody say they had it for Jones let alone had it 49-46 for Jones? On top of the other issues that night, that's just a bad judge. And since the UFC can't really do anything about it, he'll probably be there the next time they go to Texas...just like that Byrd lady in Nevada.

And sorry, but saying he should have done more in rounds 4 and 5 is a BS justification. Jones should have done more in rounds 1-3.

The 49-46 judge is garbage, agreed. I guess the point I should have added is that while he's an outlier, that doesn't make him right. He was wrong and he sucks. One of the commissions (California maybe?) has a system where if you judge rounds different than the majority you are brought to task to explain your scoring. Not sure how effective it's been, but at least it's something.

As for Jones winning, yes I've seen/heard other people say he should have won. But only 48-47, and only Round 3/4/5.

Saying Reyes should have done more isn't justifying the decision, but I do think that Round 3 was close enough to where Reyes and his corner had to know the fight wasn't in the bag and it really seemed like he didn't fight the same in the last two rounds. Maybe it was the gameplan or maybe he was just tired, but either way it was a disappointing final 10 minutes for him.

 

[m9]

My other takeaway now that this fight is over - I don't need to see Jon Jones move up to HW right now. LHW has caught up to him and there are still matchups that make sense.

 

[chicagoskycam]

Kansas is going to start posting live scorecards every round

Kansas to offer 'real-time' scoring in MMA fights

 

[chicagoskycam]

The 49-46 judge is garbage, agreed. I guess the point I should have added is that while he's an outlier, that doesn't make him right. He was wrong and he sucks. One of the commissions (California maybe?) has a system where if you judge rounds different than the majority you are brought to task to explain your scoring. Not sure how effective it's been, but at least it's something.

As for Jones winning, yes I've seen/heard other people say he should have won. But only 48-47, and only Round 3/4/5.

Saying Reyes should have done more isn't justifying the decision, but I do think that Round 3 was close enough to where Reyes and his corner had to know the fight wasn't in the bag and it really seemed like he didn't fight the same in the last two rounds. Maybe it was the gameplan or maybe he was just tired, but either way it was a disappointing final 10 minutes for him.

Reyes said right after the fight he thought he clearly won 1 - 3 so I do think he was playing it safe to some extent. He was also slowing down

 

[pistolpete11]

The 49-46 judge is garbage, agreed. I guess the point I should have added is that while he's an outlier, that doesn't make him right. He was wrong and he sucks. One of the commissions (California maybe?) has a system where if you judge rounds different than the majority you are brought to task to explain your scoring. Not sure how effective it's been, but at least it's something.

As for Jones winning, yes I've seen/heard other people say he should have won. But only 48-47, and only Round 3/4/5.

Saying Reyes should have done more isn't justifying the decision, but I do think that Round 3 was close enough to where Reyes and his corner had to know the fight wasn't in the bag and it really seemed like he didn't fight the same in the last two rounds. Maybe it was the gameplan or maybe he was just tired, but either way it was a disappointing final 10 minutes for him.

At least it's something. I think they should be forced to explain it publicly. It's too easy for these people to just go and hide away until the next year when the UFC comes back to their state and everybody forgets. There should also be some sort of relegation if you have as bad of a night as that guy did. Maybe there is something like that, but there's too much money at stake for these guys and girls to let these people go unchecked.

I don't think Reyes lost rounds 4 and 5 because he thought he had the fight won. I think he was gassing out. Sure, that's on him, but I think that was his strategy part of his strategy and I think it's the right strategy against Jones, too. Jones is maybe the smartest in cage fighter in the UFC. He's very much like Floyd where he's just feeling you out and getting a read on you early in the fight. Then he starts to pick you apart. I think that's a big reason why he's been so dominant in his rematches, too. If you conserve energy in the first couple of rounds, you might let him steal one of those rounds and then you're pretty f***ed.

 

[BGDDYKWL]

Completely agree on Jones staying at LHW. Sorry but I have no interest in seeing you at HW when many feel you lost your last two fights at LHW, one to a MW on one leg.

You just can't do that, though. That's changing the rules of the sport and really unfair to Reyes. I also think it was pretty significant in favor of Reyes. He outstruck him by like 11 or something and had Jones running from him multiple times. He also had Jones pinned against the cage and just rolling with the punches at one point. So the forward pressure justification just doesn't cut it for me.

You're right, it's probably not fair to Reyes, but just being honest, I'd do it. And my guess is some others would as well. Here's why for me. We'll use a 3-rounder just to keep it simple. First two rounds are razor close, no damage done, if I give round one to fighter A I'm gonna give round 2 to B, that way if someone clearly wins round 3 I can award them the fight. I hate it when someone squeaks out two inconsequential rounds, then gets smoked in the third, but wins 29-28.

A very easy solution to this is an ACTUAL 10 point system. Realistically we have a 2 point system, and on the VERY rare occasion, 3 points. If I could score a round 10-3 then sure, Reyes gets the first probably 10-8, then the second and third 10-9. Ironically with this system you'd have to give the fight to Reyes.

I think it's mostly age. I'm 100% convinced he was on PEDs throughout his career, but a lot of the guys he was fighting were, too. He's 32 now. That's past his prime physically, so yeah, he's just not as explosive as these young guys. Especially these young (at least in terms of MMA age) guys like Reyes.

Personally I think him being off the gas has played a bigger role than him being 32, but as has been mentioned, these up and comers have essentially had 5+ years to train for Jones. They're definitely closing the gap.

I think Nunes has only been getting better, too, so who knows. I think Valentina is more technical, but even if she wins, I'm not sure she's the FGOAT. She'd still have lost to Nunes twice and it's unfair to her, but the competition is just not the same. I mean, in 5 years, do we even remember who Chookagian is? Because I know we will remember Cyborg, Ronda, Holly, Tate, etc.

Oh, Nunes' resume is definitely better, but my money's on Shevchenko to beat all those names as well. Cyborg would be the one concern simply due to the size disparity. I actually think Nunes has peaked. I felt GDR was getting the better of her standing. And not to diminish Nunes, but she's not nearly as well-rounded as Shevchenko. What really sets her apart is her power, and her ability to surprise people with the reach of her overhand right.

Kansas is going to start posting live scorecards every round

This is fantastic. Hopefully other states follow. I'm so tired of hearing fighters say they thought they had it in the bag and "coasted". This will make for some VERY exciting 3rd/5th rounds.

 

[m9]

I know people think open scoring will create more exciting fights but in reality you will see many situations where the guy who is up 2 rounds just fights completely safe for round 3.

 

[chicagoskycam]

I know people think open scoring will create more exciting fights but in reality you will see many situations where the guy who is up 2 rounds just fights completely safe for round 3.

Exactly. Big John was talking about this when they tried it. Guys up 2 round in a 3 round fight would just hang back. It would be interesting though. I think I’d prefer it

also think about the mental aspect of it for fighters. Reyes thinks he’s winning and these scores are coming in the opposite.

 

[m9]

Exactly. Big John was talking about this when they tried it. Guys up 2 round in a 3 round fight would just hang back. It would be interesting though. I think I’d prefer it

also think about the mental aspect of it for fighters. Reyes thinks he’s winning and these scores are coming in the opposite.

It completely changes the strategy for sure. In some situations it would be good, in others it wouldn't.

It also doesn't really solve the situation of this weekend - a bad judge is still a bad judge.