GDT: UFC 235: Jones vs. Smith

[Know Your Enemy]

Woodley lost exactly how i expected him to lose. That's how he always fight: back himself up into the cage, defend from his opponent's attacks & try to land one big counter-punch. Usman was simply a nightmare matchup for him.

But did you expect Usman to physically overpower him like he did?

 

[Neutrinos]

Looks like I'm in the minority here, but I think Smith absolutely should've stayed down after taking that illegal knee to the head

He probably cost himself hundreds of thousands of dollars

 

[dss97]

Horrible stoppage, you don't expect that from a guy like Herb Dean but oh well.

Herb has had tons of awful stoppages. Not surprised he f***ed up again at all

Most overrated MMA ref by far.

 

[Avs_19]

Jones was dominant from start to finish and was never threatened at all. A bit of an underwhelming close to the fight as I thought Jones probably could've finished but he did what he needed to. I don't think there's any obvious fight next for him now. There are a couple of up and comers at LHW, DC at either LHW or HW, or someone else at HW.

Smith was that big of an underdog for a reason so it's hard to get on his performance too much but he didn't even try to go and win that fight. All along he kept saying he has nothing to lose and he'll take the fight to Jones but he did none of that. Of course that's easier said than done and Jones makes pretty much everyone tentative but still, Smith did nothing the entire fight.

Very impressive win for Usman in another completely one-sided fight. The broadcast kept saying Woodley didn't look right but I think Usman's pressure had a lot to do with that. He never stopped moving forward the entire fight. I hope he puts a beatdown on Covington.

Big mistake by Herb Dean in the Lawler/Askren fight. Props to Askren for surviving the first minute, I guess. Hopefully there's a rematch.

Zhang was solid but there's not a whole lot to say about the fight.

Garbrandt just can't help himself with the recklessness. It's one of the things that makes him fun to watch but it's also hurting his career. He didn't learn a single thing from those Dillashaw KOs. Props to Munhoz for eating some of those big shots and then finishing the fight.

Zabit tries some crazy stuff at times but he's also one of the most technical fighters in the division. He should get a top contender next.

Walker is so fun to watch. That was a beautiful and perfectly timed knee. Hopefully he's not actually hurt and can get back in there sooner rather than later. Someone near the back end of the top 10 makes sense for him next. I feel for Cirkunov since he's a Canadian and seems like a pretty good guy.

Weird night of fights.

 

[member 51464]

In his last four rounds in the octagon, Cody has been knocked out in three of them.

 

[MD thaivuN]

But did you expect Usman to physically overpower him like he did?

expected him to clinch fest him early and take him down midway the fight. the wrestling dominance came earlier than expected, but really wasn't surprising. Usman is just as good as an athlete as Woodley, but with much superior cardio and pace. Was always going to be either one-punch KO for Woodley or Usman dominating.

 

[darko]

Like I was saying...

Shame you didn't pick it lol

 

[zombie kopitar]

Herb has had tons of awful stoppages. Not surprised he ****ed up again at all

Most overrated MMA ref by far.

yeah I guess thinking about it he has definitely not been in great form of late. For a while he was 2nd best after big john though. I am still salty about it because I was on Lawler but them the breaks.

 

[YNWA14]

It wasn't a bad stoppage though. His arm goes completely limp and bounces off the floor and he didn't respond when asked if he was okay. He was clearly out (and I think he knew it and that's why he didn't protest the stoppage much).

 

[LSCII]

@LSCII enjoying some nice schadenfreude

It's not like that, despite me not being a fan of Woodley's. I just thought that Usman was really next level and would surprise a lot of people by dominating T-Wood. In the end, Usman was way too much for Woodley to handle.

 

[LSCII]

It wasn't a bad stoppage though. His arm goes completely limp and bounces off the floor and he didn't respond when asked if he was okay. He was clearly out (and I think he knew it and that's why he didn't protest the stoppage much).

That's what I saw as well. Sure he protested to Dean after the fact, but it was a halfhearted protest with no real fire behind it. That dude wasn't getting out of that choke. Simple as that. The interesting thing to me was how well Askren hung on. He got a leg or an arm or torso and just constricted around whatever he had and Lawler couldn't get out of it.

 

[pistolpete11]

Looks like I'm in the minority here, but I think Smith absolutely should've stayed down after taking that illegal knee to the head

He probably cost himself hundreds of thousands of dollars

That's why he's getting respect for not taking the easy way out.

 

[zombie kopitar]

It wasn't a bad stoppage though. His arm goes completely limp and bounces off the floor and he didn't respond when asked if he was okay. He was clearly out (and I think he knew it and that's why he didn't protest the stoppage much).

When he was 'going limp' he was flinging his arm from the top of Askren's head to the floor. It was a weird motion and after that brief moment you can clearly see movement again... if he was briefly out it is still impossible to deny that he responded after with arm movement when Herb tapped him. The verbal response thing is bs when looking at the position he was in.
(that vid is the worst angle, but you see it clear as day in other shots)

It is pretty much a consensus controversial stoppage, it could have
quite arguably been stopped in the first 30 seconds for Lawler ....when they're juxtaposed in replay it is obvious that the fight should have been kept going.

 

[YNWA14]

Sure he responded after but the refs aren't trained to hope for that. There wasn't any flinging that arm was completely limp when it fell from Askren's head. Refs can't just let a guy who appears to have gone unconscious stay in a very tight choke.

I think it sucks most for Askren because he was in a completely dominant position and Lawler was not getting out of it so even if the fight kept going from there a stoppage was coming. So now you have a lot of people claiming Askren is scared, that he would get KOed easily etc. Reality though? Lawler was in a very good position to finish Askren and he couldn't do it. He likely will never be able to get a slam like that again and it was what started the whole thing.

Askren wins that fight every time, IMO.

 

[I am the Liquor]

He wasn’t getting out of that. Askren wasn’t letting go. He was finished.

And stop with the Jones Goat talk, guy is a drug cheat, not to mention a coke head and general scumbag. He had the talent and physical attributes to be the goat, but he doesn’t have the mental toughness required.

 

[pistolpete11]

Sure he responded after but the refs aren't trained to hope for that. There wasn't any flinging that arm was completely limp when it fell from Askren's head. Refs can't just let a guy who appears to have gone unconscious stay in a very tight choke.

I think it sucks most for Askren because he was in a completely dominant position and Lawler was not getting out of it so even if the fight kept going from there a stoppage was coming. So now you have a lot of people claiming Askren is scared, that he would get KOed easily etc. Reality though? Lawler was in a very good position to finish Askren and he couldn't do it. He likely will never be able to get a slam like that again and it was what started the whole thing.

Askren wins that fight every time, IMO.

After his arm fell, Herb grabbed his arm to check and Robbie pulled it back. But Herb stopped it anyway. I get why people thought he was out and that even if he wasn't out, he was in a very bad position. But the ref's got to give the fighter the chance.

 

[zombie kopitar]

Reality though? Lawler was in a very good position to finish Askren and he couldn't do it. He likely will never be able to get a slam like that again and it was what started the whole thing.

Askren wins that fight every time, IMO.

Maybe that's your reality but that's not the reality.

There are many fights that get stopped for less than Lawler's early murking, that's a fact. But you can't deny that it was the right call not to stop it based off how Askren responded. You also can't deny that Lawler was no where close to out at the moment the fight stopped.

Askren would have finished in control of the round no doubt, but Lawler evaded all the positions that really put him in danger....for anyone to say he would have continued dominating the last 2 rounds without a doubt are full of ****. He was not taking him down at will and Ben was absolutely ****ed up and likely concussed. It could have been FOTN, we'll never know.

Go to r/mma, the large majority say it's somewhat excusable in the real time decision, but with multiple angles it is a flat out bad stoppage. I like both guys, I hope they run it back.

 

[YNWA14]

I'm really not interested in what the majority of fight fans think on r/mma or in general. I enjoy discussing it with people who seem reasonable but the majority of fight fans have made Jon Jones and Conor McGregor the most popular fighters ever and just want to see violence, they boo if there's any kind of slow down for struggle for control and they just want to see blood/violence...there's rarely any reason or logic there.

After his arm fell, Herb grabbed his arm to check and Robbie pulled it back. But Herb stopped it anyway. I get why people thought he was out and that even if he wasn't out, he was in a very bad position. But the ref's got to give the fighter the chance.

The thing is he didn't pull his arm up or move it until AFTER Herb let it go. So first he watched it go limp, then he asked for a response, and then he grabbed the arm to feel if there was resistance. The test isn't to see if the arm comes back up especially after it goes limp like that.

If Lawler was conscious through all that then he only has himself to blame for the stoppage.

Also there was no reason for the fight to be stopped when Askren was getting shelled. He never stopped defending himself and never at any point looked out.

If people like Lawler or wanted Askren to lose that's fine but Askren earned that win.

 

[pistolpete11]

The thing is he didn't pull his arm up or move it until AFTER Herb let it go. So first he watched it go limp, then he asked for a response, and then he grabbed the arm to feel if there was resistance. The test isn't to see if the arm comes back up especially after it goes limp like that.

The check is to see if he is still conscious. Herb grabbed his arm and Robbie moved it. Unconscious people don't move their arms.

Robbie says he also gave a thumbs up. I haven't seen that, but I definitely saw his arm move when Herb checked on him.

If Lawler was conscious through all that then he only has himself to blame for the stoppage.

What more was he supposed to do?

Also there was no reason for the fight to be stopped when Askren was getting shelled. He never stopped defending himself and never at any point looked out.

If people like Lawler or wanted Askren to lose that's fine but Askren earned that win.

I'm assuming these points aren't directed to me?

I never said it should have been stopped when Askren was getting his face punched in. Herb did a good job by letting Askren get through that. He should have given the same opportunity to Lawler.

I like both guys. You can see my post on the first page. I said I don't know who to root for because I like both of them a lot. Robbie is a warrior and a class act and I find Askren hilarious. Askren didn't deserve or not deserve that win. It was just a bad stoppage.

 

[zombie kopitar]

If Lawler was conscious through all that then he only has himself to blame for the stoppage.

Why? That makes no sense. Your whole breakdown of the fight is not objective at all. Lawler clearly moved and responded the moment Herb tapped him.

It is irritating to see the holier than thou attitude as well. r/mma is for the most part a very knowledgeable and level headed group...secondly I am a high ranked MMA player on the DFS scene zombiekopitar , I watch a crap ton of fights....so if you don't think I'm knowledgeable or my assessment is reasonable then idk what to tell you man.
Am I salty that my fighters went 5/6 except Lawler, sure....but you just want to see a proper stoppage regardless of your bias, and it's also on me playing the risk and I should have just went to Diego Sanchez anyway as I really thought Gall was way too big of a favorite.

It what is is...which is a controversial stoppage. After seeing it run through, I think what would have happened is Lawler makes it through the round and does some damage start of the 2nd and if Ben survives it then Lawler is tired enough where he gets a proper submission late in the 2nd.

Anyway I'm done with the topic. I would definitely like to see a rematch though.

 

[rocketdan9]

Bones is the best fighter I have seen. I always wanted to see Jones vs Silva

but about 7-8 years too late

I wonder who his next opponent will be. I would like to see a fighter with a similar style to Jones fight him....Brazilian Jiu-jitsu + kick boxing striker

 

[m9]

Serious question: has there ever been a five round fight where a legit champ (someone who fought and defended) was so dominated?

I'm having a hard time thinking of someone who dominated a fight that much.

The one that comes to mind is Dos Anjos over Pettis. Not often you see a champ get dominated like that.

 

[Avs_19]

The one that comes to mind is Dos Anjos over Pettis. Not often you see a champ get dominated like that.

Yeah, this one has to be up there.

Dillashaw was dominant and outclassed Barao when he won the belt but I believe there was one somewhat competitive round in there and it wasn't a mauling like Woodley/Usman or RDA/Pettis.

 

[member 51464]

The one that comes to mind is Dos Anjos over Pettis. Not often you see a champ get dominated like that.

I can't believe that was 4 years ago.

 

[1specter]

The one that comes to mind is Dos Anjos over Pettis. Not often you see a champ get dominated like that.

Garbrandt over Cruz too.