GDT: UFC 231: Holloway vs. Ortega

[m9]

I don't really care about any of the Mayweather talk, but the MMA facts are Conor & Poirier are top 5 guys in the division and if Max Holloway decided to move up they would be perfectly appropriate fights. They also both hold wins over Max from earlier in this career, so either of those are fine. I would also be fine with Max v Khabib, but the only issue there is that Ferguson deserves that shot more.

It's going to be really hard for the UFC to screw this one up. Max, Khabib, Conor, Poirier, and Ferguson can be thrown in whatever combination and you're going to get a couple of amazing fights. You've got Nate kicking around, too. I'm just hoping we get these fights sooner than later.

 

[Neutrinos]

Obviously this depends on what disciplinary measures are handed out to Khabib and McGregor, but I think it's pretty obvious how things should play out:

Khabib vs Ferguson for the 155 strap

Holloway vs McGregor for the 145 belt, with the winner stepping up to take on the winner of Khabib vs Ferguson

 

[pistolpete11]

I don't really care about any of the Mayweather talk, but the MMA facts are Conor & Poirier are top 5 guys in the division and if Max Holloway decided to move up they would be perfectly appropriate fights. They also both hold wins over Max from earlier in this career, so either of those are fine. I would also be fine with Max v Khabib, but the only issue there is that Ferguson deserves that shot more.

It's going to be really hard for the UFC to screw this one up. Max, Khabib, Conor, Poirier, and Ferguson can be thrown in whatever combination and you're going to get a couple of amazing fights. You've got Nate kicking around, too. I'm just hoping we get these fights sooner than later.

My question is how would it effect Max's deal if he were to move up? As a champ, he gets PPV points, right? I assume you don't necessarily get that if you change weight classes, so he would have to negotiate that with the UFC. Does the UFC make enough money off a Holloway-Poirier fight to give away PPV points? Is there enough money left after Conor takes his cut to entice Max to move up? Would the UFC strip him if he did move up? Because then he wouldn't be able to go back down to 145 and get those PPV points.

I think Max is game and I think he gives a lot of LW's a big problem, but I think that champ contract is at least partially why he's not saying he's done as a 145lber. He wants that option and at least as a negotiation chip.

 

[pistolpete11]

Obviously this depends on what disciplinary measures are handed out to Khabib and McGregor, but I think it's pretty obvious how things should play out:

Khabib vs Ferguson for the 155 strap

Holloway vs McGregor for the 145 belt, with the winner stepping up to take on the winner of Khabib vs Ferguson

Why does Conor want to fight at 145lb again? He's the biggest draw in the sport regardless of what weight it is at or if it's for a belt. He was on death's door making 145lb, so why go through that when you can make just as much money by making Max come up to 155lb or fighting Poirier, Cowboy, Nate, etc. which are also easier fights.

 

[m9]

Dustin Poirier came out today that he's frustrated that things aren't moving at 155lbs. I agree with him.. though I hope he recognizing him pulling out of the Diaz fight didn't help the cause.

 

[m9]

My question is how would it effect Max's deal if he were to move up? As a champ, he gets PPV points, right? I assume you don't necessarily get that if you change weight classes, so he would have to negotiate that with the UFC. Does the UFC make enough money off a Holloway-Poirier fight to give away PPV points? Is there enough money left after Conor takes his cut to entice Max to move up? Would the UFC strip him if he did move up? Because then he wouldn't be able to go back down to 145 and get those PPV points.

I think Max is game and I think he gives a lot of LW's a big problem, but I think that champ contract is at least partially why he's not saying he's done as a 145lber. He wants that option and at least as a negotiation chip.

They can negotiate all that, it's not a big deal. I'm sure he would have been paid a good amount to move up when he was supposed to fight Khabib.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Mayweather fought in the UFC? Don't recall that ever happening.

If he had stayed focused on MMA instead of boxing, I think the result between he and Khabbib would have been different, but we'll never know at this point.

Lol

He had his day and was great for a time, but that time is over. It’s someone else’s time now. Nobody stays on top forever.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Do you not pay attention to the UFC? Fights get made based on how much money they bring in. Whether you like him or not, Conor is BY FAR the biggest star in the sport. If Max is going to vacate his belt at 145, then he's going to be looking for a big payday fight at 155. You don't get a bigger payday than to fight Conor.

Conor is yesterday’s news, trading on yesterday’s reputation. He’s done jack shit the last two years to impress anyone. Before that he got beat by a journeyman. His abilities and status are wildly exaggerated by his cadre of ball huggers around here.

Once fighters start losing fights, the crowds are sure to diminish. He’s going to have to actually start winning fights again to be relevant. I’m not sure he has it in him. I think he has lost his drive, desire and I believe he’s lost his edge. He never defended his belts. He was a paper champion and now he isn’t even that.

 

[m9]

Conor is yesterday’s news, trading on yesterday’s reputation. He’s done jack **** the last two years to impress anyone. Before that he got beat by a journeyman. His abilities and status are wildly exaggerated by his cadre of ball huggers around here.

Once fighters start losing fights, the crowds are sure to diminish. He’s going to have to actually start winning fights again to be relevant. I’m not sure he has it in him. I think he has lost his drive, desire and I believe he’s lost his edge. He never defended his belts. He was a paper champion and now he isn’t even that.

I know you have a long history of outlandish opinions in this forum, but I actually don't think the first part of this is one of them. It's very possible that the best version of Conor was the hungry version and we might never see that one again.

The part to me that's ridiculous is the "paper champion" part. True, he didn't defend either belt.. but his wins were legit. Beating guys like Aldo, Mendes, Holloway, Poirier, and Alvarez are not just legit wins, but top of the p4p rankings type stuff.

 

[pistolpete11]

Conor is yesterday’s news, trading on yesterday’s reputation. He’s done jack **** the last two years to impress anyone. Before that he got beat by a journeyman. His abilities and status are wildly exaggerated by his cadre of ball huggers around here.

Once fighters start losing fights, the crowds are sure to diminish. He’s going to have to actually start winning fights again to be relevant. I’m not sure he has it in him. I think he has lost his drive, desire and I believe he’s lost his edge. He never defended his belts. He was a paper champion and now he isn’t even that.

I know you have a long history of outlandish opinions in this forum, but I actually don't think the first part of this is one of them. It's very possible that the best version of Conor was the hungry version and we might never see that one again.

The part to me that's ridiculous is the "paper champion" part. True, he didn't defend either belt.. but his wins were legit. Beating guys like Aldo, Mendes, Holloway, Poirier, and Alvarez are not just legit wins, but top of the p4p rankings type stuff.

Conor is not yesterday's news. Whether his best days are behind him is a fair discussion, but he's still the biggest star in the sport and is going to sell the most PPV's in the sport.

Liquor's point that he needs to win a fight to keep the big crowds is likely valid, but we're not at that point yet. He lost to Khabib. There's no shame in that. His next fight is still going to sell well over 1M PPVs. If he wins, he will fight for the title and sell well over 1M PPVs again. Probably closer to 2M if it is a Khabib rematch (whether he has a chance to actually beat him or not). If he loses, he will probably fight Diaz again, sell over 1M PPV, and ride off into the sunset.

As m9 said, his resume to this point is still legit AF. Taking some time off to box Mayweather and a loss to Khabib doesn't erase what he's done.

 

[pistolpete11]

Dustin Poirier came out today that he's frustrated that things aren't moving at 155lbs. I agree with him.. though I hope he recognizing him pulling out of the Diaz fight didn't help the cause.

Yeah, wrong guy to complain about it.

What does he think is going to happen, though? As you said, he pulled out of a fight with Nate. Khabib and Conor have to be cleared by the NSAC. Tony of course is going to wait to see what happens there. Lee, Raging Al, and Barboza are all fighting this week. There aren't really any fights left to make unless he wants to fight Gaethje again. Maybe Pettis?

 

[m9]

Yeah, wrong guy to complain about it.

What does he think is going to happen, though? As you said, he pulled out of a fight with Nate. Khabib and Conor have to be cleared by the NSAC. Tony of course is going to wait to see what happens there. Lee, Raging Al, and Barboza are all fighting this week. There aren't really any fights left to make unless he wants to fight Gaethje again. Maybe Pettis?

Pettis is supposed to be fighting Gaethje, so that's not an option either. He already smashed Pettis, anyway.

 

[pistolpete11]

Pettis is supposed to be fighting Gaethje, so that's not an option either. He already smashed Pettis, anyway.

That's right. I completely forgot he already fought Pettis.

So really, there's nothing the UFC can do until the Khabib and Conor stuff is worked out. Other than rebooking Nate-Poirier which is going to be more difficult now that they don't even have the co-main at MSG carrot to dangle in front of Nate.

 

[Diddy]

This isn't about deserving anything. This is about money. And McGregor sells fights to casual fans better than anyone else on that roster, AINEC.

Plus this fight would be an easy sell given they fought before and McGregor won despite tearing his ACL in the second round. So it would be easy to market it as Holloway getting a shot to avenge his last loss to McGregor, and it would be a chance for McGregor to make a statement over a guy that he didn't look particularly great while winning the first time and has been on a crazy run. Win win for the UFC and for the fighters, imo.

Since it makes a lot of sense, it means that it won't happen though...lol

True nuff. Dana bless .

McGregor never lost hit title at 145, he had it stripped

He would absolutely be the #1 contender if he dropped back down

Idk I think he'd still need a fight against a guy at 145 . He got it stripped due to him not defending it after all.

McGregor is an elite top level fighter regardless of whether you think he deserves it or not, and Diaz is not a journeyman by any means at 55. Maybe you should rewatch Conor’s fight with Eddie.

If Max was offered that fight he accepts immediately and runs to the bank, and MMA fans rejoice that the biggest fight in UFC history gets booked.

Come on bruh. Diaz ain't nothing more than a gatekeeper at best. Of course max takes the easy money fight. No different than mayweather fighting mcg. Diesnt mean its deserved or adds amything to the legacy

This isn't about deserving anything. This is about money. And McGregor sells fights to casual fans better than anyone else on that roster, AINEC.

Plus this fight would be an easy sell given they fought before and McGregor won despite tearing his ACL in the second round. So it would be easy to market it as Holloway getting a shot to avenge his last loss to McGregor, and it would be a chance for McGregor to make a statement over a guy that he didn't look particularly great while winning the first time and has been on a crazy run. Win win for the UFC and for the fighters, imo.

Since it makes a lot of sense, it means that it won't happen though...lol

ILY.

Sorry for late reply yall I only xome on here durimg ufc events and while I'm drunk YEEYEE

 

[m9]

McGregor would go to the front of the line at 145lbs if he ever decided to go back.

 

[pistolpete11]

Conor went to the front of the line at 155lb without ever fighting in the division before. He would absolutely fight for the title at 145 if he decided to. There's not even an argument to be made otherwise. I don't think Conor has any desire to make 145lb again anyway, but if he was going to, he sure as hell isn't doing it for anything but a title fight.

 

[Neutrinos]

Conor went to the front of the line at 155lb without ever fighting in the division before. He would absolutely fight for the title at 145 if he decided to. There's not even an argument to be made otherwise. I don't think Conor has any desire to make 145lb again anyway, but if he was going to, he sure as hell isn't doing it for anything but a title fight.

Even without bringing his star power into it, he never lost his 145 belt, so there's a perfectly sound argument for why he would get an immediate title shot 145

I would expect Cormier to get an immediate shot as well if he ever drops back down to 205

I don't know why anyone would have a problem with that

 

[I am the Liquor]

Even without bringing his star power into it, he never lost his 145 belt, so there's a perfectly sound argument for why he would get an immediate title shot 145

I would expect Cormier to get an immediate shot as well if he ever drops back down to 205

I don't know why anyone would have a problem with that

He hasn’t won a fight in over two years.

 

[Neutrinos]

He hasn’t won a fight in over two years.

GSP hadn't won a fight in what, 4 years?

Former champions who relinquished their belt jump to the head of the line

 

[I am the Liquor]

GSP hadn't won a fight in what, 4 years?

Former champions who relinquished their belt jump to the head of the line

He didn’t lose any either.