OT: UFC 167: St-Pierre vs. Hendricks (20th Anniversary Show)

[arsmaster*]

Honestly I had it 48-47 Hendricks too, but that was before I saw the actual stats. I can see why round 1 went to the Champ, and it will go to the Champ every time. Hendricks and White are just upset because Hendricks absolutely dominated 2 rounds and the significant strikes he landed were to St-Pierre's head as opposed to St-Pierre's significant strikes coming on Hendricks's body. I don't see how Dana White gave that 5th round to Hendricks either. Seems to me like a lot of people were just looking at GSP's face and saying "oh well Hendricks clearly won that fight." IMO it was much much much closer than it appeared if you score the fight on a round-by-round basis which is how MMA is scored, and that 1st round in any non-championship fight could be a pure coin toss. But in a championship fight, when the champion scores more significant strikes (by 1), loses total strikes by 1 insignificant strike, ties in take-downs, but scores more submission attempts/successful submission moves, the round should go to the champ. GSP won that fight legitimately.

I had it 3 round to 2 for Hendricks as well. Had GSP winning 3 and 5 CLEARLY. Hendricks IMO clearly won 2 and 4.

I said it before the decision, that would all come down to who the judges gave round 1.

I was right.


I've been watching this sport pretty ferverently since GSP's early career. This was the only time I think I could say Georges wasn't the bigger and stronger man. Johnny looked massive and it showed in any of the exchanges on the cage. How many times have you seen an opponent hold GSP against the fence like that? I don't recall ever.

The crown jewel of the scrap for me is the GSP took Johnny's best punch on more than one occasion, now all the people who say he can't take a shot can climb back into their holes, because he absolutely took Hendricks best and heaviest shot.

GSP showed the most heart of his career. I was surprised he stopped shooting for takedowns, but the size advantage was pretty clear from where I was watching.

Dana should be happy, keeps the sport in the news.

 

[Betamax*]

Dana should be happy, keeps the sport in the news.

Yeah ... that sums things up. I think this talk about GSP moving up in weight class for legit competition is now squashed when he has his hands full with Bigg Rigg. I think GSP as the champ is obligated to have a re-match within a reasonable time ... I'd say 6 months or 8 months at the latest ... if he plans a leave from fighting for a year or longer, he should "retire" and relinquish the belt and have Bigg Rigg fight Condit (should he defeat Brown) for the undisputed ww title and not this interim title B.S..

And if GSP decides to come back from retirement in a year or so ... he would be given number one contender status to recapture it as a challenger.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Yeah ... that sums things up. I think this talk about GSP moving up in weight class for legit competition is now squashed when he has his hands full with Bigg Rigg. I think GSP as the champ is obligated to have a re-match within a reasonable time ... I'd say 6 months or 8 months at the latest ... if he plans a leave from fighting for a year or longer, he should "retire" and relinquish the belt and have Bigg Rigg fight Condit (should he defeat Brown) for the undisputed ww title and not this interim title B.S..

And if GSP decides to come back from retirement in a year or so ... he would be given number one contender status to recapture it as a challenger.

I disagree. If a fighter is physically unable to fight then they still keep the title, while an interim title is created. Why should that be any different if a fighter is mentally unable to fight?

 

[m9]

I disagree. If a fighter is physically unable to fight then they still keep the title, while an interim title is created. Why should that be any different if a fighter is mentally unable to fight?

It depends what qualifies as mental. If he has a diagnosed medical condition, then of course it would be an interim strap.

 

[Betamax*]

I disagree. If a fighter is physically unable to fight then they still keep the title, while an interim title is created. Why should that be any different if a fighter is mentally unable to fight?

I think either a physical injury or mental illness is keeping a champion from competing whereby he can't defend the title within a calendar year (365 days from his last defense), then he should relinquish the title. The "interim" title has no legitimacy as it's just a placeholder for the number one contenders spot when the "real" belt is contended for. Now if a Champion gets injured or diagnosed with a medical condition while training for a confirmed fight, he gets one extension ... a year from the injury is diagnosed ... but after that ... they should be obligated to relinquish the belt voluntarily if they are not physically or mentally unable to defend the belt.

 

[arsmaster*]

It depends what qualifies as mental. If he has a diagnosed medical condition, then of course it would be an interim strap.

No clue why he should "have to retire". Seems stupid.

There is no set way to diagnose a mental illness. Not saying this is what is happening, just that I think GSP of all people should be afforded all the time in the world to do whatever he wants.

Dana said it, he's the PPV king of the entire promotion. The UFC is nowhere close to where it is without him, so I think he's earned his shot at taking a little breather. I don't think we can take what GSP was saying while concussed as anything definite either.

It's going to be an interim strap if it gets to that point, they won't tar and feather one of the legitimate superstars of the sport.

 

[m9]

No clue why he should "have to retire". Seems stupid.

There is no set way to diagnose a mental illness. Not saying this is what is happening, just that I think GSP of all people should be afforded all the time in the world to do whatever he wants.

Dana said it, he's the PPV king of the entire promotion. The UFC is nowhere close to where it is without him, so I think he's earned his shot at taking a little breather. I don't think we can take what GSP was saying while concussed as anything definite either.

It's going to be an interim strap if it gets to that point, they won't tar and feather one of the legitimate superstars of the sport.

There are plenty of mental issues that can be diagnosed. All I am saying is that if GSP's issue is that he is suffering from something like depression it needs to be treated different than if he is taking time off because he wants to relax and travel the world for two years or go to the Olympics and not fight MMA. One means interim title, one means stripping him of his title.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I think either a physical injury or mental illness is keeping a champion from competing whereby he can't defend the title within a calendar year (365 days from his last defense), then he should relinquish the title. The "interim" title has no legitimacy as it's just a placeholder for the number one contenders spot when the "real" belt is contended for. Now if a Champion gets injured or diagnosed with a medical condition while training for a confirmed fight, he gets one extension ... a year from the injury is diagnosed ... but after that ... they should be obligated to relinquish the belt voluntarily if they are not physically or mentally unable to defend the belt.

Tell that to Dominick Cruz...

 

[arsmaster*]

Tell that to Dominick Cruz...

....or Matt Serra. I can't remember, did he even defend the title when he had it?

Who cares, really?

If it's not the interim belt, everyone will know it was GSP's, and if it is, the same thing.

Think this is the case of a person looking for something to complain about.

 

[Betamax*]

Well, that's possible since GSP has been rumored to be considering retirement or maybe step up for a superfight against The Spider (especially if The Spider recaptures his belt). He apparently is against fighting/competing against people he considers "friends" ... does Rory Mac fall into that category?

Rogan: GSP should retire

Source: http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/439833/Rogan-GSP-should-retire/

Excerpt:

UFC color commentator Joe Rogan appeared on The Opie & Anthony Show earlier this week, and said he thinks it is time for UFC welterweight champion Georges St-Pierre to retire, and that he thinks GSP lost to Johny Hendricks Saturday night.

"I think Georges should retire," said Rogan as transcribed by MMAFighting.com. "One of the reasons I think Georges should retire is he was on my podcast and he was talking about being abducted by aliens. I was going, 'you think you've been abducted by aliens?' He starts talking about missing time. He started talking about driving his car and all of a sudden he's at home and he has no idea he got there. I think it's head kicks."

"That fight he had some serious memory loss. I think he's taken too many shots. An interesting statistic is that Georges has taken more punches and kicks in the last three fights than any of his fights, ever. In fact, 50% of the shots he's taken his entire career were in the last three fights. I think he should get out. I know the UFC probably doesn't want to hear me say that. I know that could be a huge rematch."

There's been a lot of speculation about GSP's personal issues but it wouldn't surprise me if they are concussion related. If so, health should be his number one priority and if he decides to retire that would probably be the rational thing to do ... although the lure of a final, huge re-match fight against Bigg Rigg might be too enticing for his own "legacy" in the sport and how the UFC and Fans are pushing for it.

 

[ziploc]

Rogan: GSP should retire

Source: http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/439833/Rogan-GSP-should-retire/

Excerpt:



There's been a lot of speculation about GSP's personal issues but it wouldn't surprise me if they are concussion related. If so, health should be his number one priority and if he decides to retire that would probably be the rational thing to do ... although the lure of a final, huge re-match fight against Bigg Rigg might be too enticing for his own "legacy" in the sport and how the UFC and Fans are pushing for it.

I saw that too. I don't think the UFC are anywhere close to other sports yet with regards to concussion care. How can they be? Boxing and MMA rely upon concussions for victory. I actually believe boxing to be far more dangerous than MMA in this regard, but both are worrisome.

I very much doubt concussion fear would stop GSP from making at least one more defense, and I'm extremely confident the UFC would not try to stop it. But if he really is as out of it as Rogan suggests (and he's no Dr. Recchi obviously), then I would hope GSP hangs them up.

 

[Betamax*]

I saw that too. I don't think the UFC are anywhere close to other sports yet with regards to concussion care. How can they be? Boxing and MMA rely upon concussions for victory. I actually believe boxing to be far more dangerous than MMA in this regard, but both are worrisome.

I very much doubt concussion fear would stop GSP from making at least one more defense, and I'm extremely confident the UFC would not try to stop it. But if he really is as out of it as Rogan suggests (and he's no Dr. Recchi obviously), then I would hope GSP hangs them up.

Yeah, just re-hear GSP's post fight interview with Rogan. He literally admits he sustained a concussion in that fight and wasn't completely coherent. I think Dana White was over zealous in his criticism and he and the UFC have to be very careful with how he deals with his athletes when it comes to the affects of concussions.

 

[The Horvatian One]

That's the thing with judging more strikes that are less significant vs more significant strikes with less thrown.

GSP fought a smart fight, but man was I rooting Hendricks on. I think GSP is a great fighter, but man did I want to see him get knocked out so it would like a spark under his stomach again. Too damn bad he decided to pull off that tirade. Disappointing to say the least. I had round 1 to Hendricks by barely, two to Hendricks, Three in dominant fashion by GSP and Four to Hendricks, Fifth to GSP.

But this whole jab to win philosophy is trash. Same thing with laying on people. I am complaining, but I'm not trying to say MMA it's boring. It's just what made me want to see Hendricks destroy GSP. He hurt him bad in the 2nd and that's when I think that's when GSP lost his memory during that fight. He was in big big trouble .

 

[Betamax*]

That's the thing with judging more strikes that are less significant vs more significant strikes with less thrown.

GSP fought a smart fight, but man was I rooting Hendricks on. I think GSP is a great fighter, but man did I want to see him get knocked out so it would like a spark under his stomach again. Too damn bad he decided to pull off that tirade. Disappointing to say the least. I had round 1 to Hendricks by barely, two to Hendricks, Three in dominant fashion by GSP and Four to Hendricks, Fifth to GSP.

But this whole jab to win philosophy is trash. Same thing with laying on people. I am complaining, but I'm not trying to say MMA it's boring. It's just what made me want to see Hendricks destroy GSP. He hurt him bad in the 2nd and that's when I think that's when GSP lost his memory during that fight. He was in big big trouble .

Yeah, another thing is that when it comes to scoring a bout that goes to a decision ... the final outcome is judged on a round-by-round basis and not under PRIDE FC rules which takes into account the totality of the fight in determining a winner. It's almost unanimous that Bigg Rigg "won" rounds 2 and 4 and GSP "won" the 3 and 5 rounds. What was in dispute was the 1st round which was close and one could make a reasonable case for either fighter.

 

[The Horvatian One]

Yeah, another thing is that when it comes to scoring a bout that goes to a decision ... the final outcome is judged on a round-by-round basis and not under PRIDE FC rules which takes into account the totality of the fight in determining a winner. It's almost unanimous that Bigg Rigg "won" rounds 2 and 4 and GSP "won" the 3 and 5 rounds. What was in dispute was the 1st round which was close and one could make a reasonable case for either fighter.

Have a clip of where people are saying Hendricks tapped?

Cause that gif certainly was not a "tap", not even close to the Silva vs Sonnen 1 Sonnen tap which was highly controversial at the time even though it was pretty obvious.

 

[Betamax*]

Have a clip of where people are saying Hendricks tapped?

Cause that gif certainly was not a "tap", not even close to the Silva vs Sonnen 1 Sonnen tap which was highly controversial at the time even though it was pretty obvious.

Just go do a youtube search with the words "Did Hendricks TAP?" ... I'm pretty sure you'll find a few videos of that incident.

 

[The Horvatian One]

Just go do a youtube search with the words "Did Hendricks TAP?" ... I'm pretty sure you'll find a few videos of that incident.

So it is the Gif....doesn't look like a tap at all comparing to Sonnen tapping against Silva.

 

[hlrsr]

I don't think the argument is that he actually tapped, but that he was in the process of doing it before GSP let go.

 

[arsmaster*]

I don't think the argument is that he actually tapped, but that he was in the process of doing it before GSP let go.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/mma/ufc/ask-the-insider-did-hendricks-tap-out/

He wasn't tapping.

 

[m9]

Of course he wasn't tapping. If anyone thinks he was tapping then they are not a fan of MMA or need to get their brain examined. There is 0 percent chance Hendricks would tap given the situation. Instead of looking at the gif they need to watch prior to and following that gif, and also think about the context of the situation. Most people wouldn't tap to that if they were wrestling in their background, much less round one of the biggest fight of their life.

 

[Betamax*]

Super slow-mo replays from UFC 167 via The Phantom Cam:



FF to around 1:34 if you're only interested in the GSP vs. Bigg Rigg highlights.

 

[Betamax*]

Yeah ... that sums things up. I think this talk about GSP moving up in weight class for legit competition is now squashed when he has his hands full with Bigg Rigg. I think GSP as the champ is obligated to have a re-match within a reasonable time ... I'd say 6 months or 8 months at the latest ... if he plans a leave from fighting for a year or longer, he should "retire" and relinquish the belt and have Bigg Rigg fight Condit (should he defeat Brown) for the undisputed ww title and not this interim title B.S..

And if GSP decides to come back from retirement in a year or so ... he would be given number one contender status to recapture it as a challenger.

FYI, GSP held a press conferrence today and essentially announced what I thought was the right thing to do if his heart or mind wasn't to continue to fight and defend the UFC Welterweight Title.

Apparently, Bigg Rigg Hendricks will fight Ruthless Lawler for the vacated WW title.

IMO, I would have made it a Bigg Rigg Hendricks vs NBK Condit for the title but I suspect with a win in his upcoming match, Condit will be next in line for a title shot.

 

[y2kcanucks]

FYI, GSP held a press conferrence today and essentially announced what I thought was the right thing to do if his heart or mind wasn't to continue to fight and defend the UFC Welterweight Title.

Apparently, Bigg Rigg Hendricks will fight Ruthless Lawler for the vacated WW title.

IMO, I would have made it a Bigg Rigg Hendricks vs NBK Condit for the title but I suspect with a win in his upcoming match, Condit will be next in line for a title shot.

Quite depressing news. It's still GSP's belt in my mind and whenever he returns he will take it back off of whomever is holding it. The greatest fighter in UFC history!

 

[arsmaster*]

He's the #1 contender if he ever comes back, no warm-up match, straight into the deep end.

Without GSP, the UFC doesn't have the lure....not enough star power, and I can't cheer for Jon Jones.

Save me some PPV money.