UFA 28, 29, or 30 vs. appx. $40 million cap

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scaredsensfan said:
If you are arguing based solely on Colorado's and St. Louis' payroll, it is misleading seeing as

That said, I do agree with most of your points, Messenger.
Yes it was based on spending and more so the point of being Capped out in transition to and new Hard Cap CBA ..

I included ST. Louis in the list because the topic was where would Demitra find a place to play discussion and his former team already let him walk as a UFA in cost cutting measures in the old CBA .. So now finding room again was not more likely with a Hard Cap ..

This discussion and the NHLPA point and fight is finding a market for players to find work and I was pointing out that even if a player like Demitra took a 50% pay cut to try to find work, the new CBA is working against him that even at that amount his choices are few and far between .. That was the point ..
 

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FLYLine4LIFE said:
UFA age 24??? No way. 28 the lowest. Teams wouldnt be able to hold onto any of there home grown players for more then 4-5 years if its that low.

I'm not a fan of the UFA being that low, but the leagues that have caps, NBA & NFL both have free agency after 3 or 4 seasons.
 

Crazy_Ike

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syc said:
I would if a rich russian offered him 5M.

The lockout has already clearly established that there is virtually no market that size outside the NHL.
 

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Crazy_Ike said:
The lockout has already clearly established that there is virtually no market that size outside the NHL.

WHAT!!!! Are you kidding!?!?!?! Haven't you read the published reports quoting published reports which cite published reports that Kovalchuk is making eleventeen bajillion dollars from one of the russian superleague teams?!?!?
:sarcasm:
 

GKJ

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John Flyers Fan said:
I'm not a fan of the UFA being that low, but the leagues that have caps, NBA & NFL both have free agency after 3 or 4 seasons.


Neither am I. I am not saying that's how I want it to be, but I think something lower than what people think will come up.


If I was running this show, I would phase it in. If the lockout ends, I would make the first year 30, than maybe the next year 29, then 28 or 27 for the duration.
 

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John Flyers Fan said:
I'm not a fan of the UFA being that low, but the leagues that have caps, NBA & NFL both have free agency after 3 or 4 seasons.

However, the NBA has a system that allows the current team to make a higher offer than a new team. So while free agency exists, the system is restrictive and limits player movement. More likely to occur is the old "sign and trade" option. That permits player movement that is initiated by the player, but gives the sending team real compensation.

The NFL limits movement by the better players through their "tags" that you can place on one player.
 

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syc said:
I would if a rich russian offered him 5M.

They won't though. To my knowledge only a few players... Russian players... were offered decent contracts in Russia and that was mostly by one team who won't be able to sustain those payroll levels for very long at all.
 

nyr7andcounting

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Crazy_Ike said:
The lockout has already clearly established that there is virtually no market that size outside the NHL.
How has it established that? In order to establish it, you would need a full European offseason when everyone is certain who is and who isn't playing in the NHL, or if there is even an NHL or not. This year, most European teams didn't even start negotiating with NHLers until after their season had pretty much started and every NHLer was on a contract with an escape clause. Give them a whole offseason knowing which NHLers are there to stay and they could get a lot more money out of sponsors, tickets etc. No league will ever have the overall talent or $$ that the NHL does, but if you don't think the Russian League can strengthen itself enough to keep some of the Euro players at home you are crazy.
 

Crazy_Ike

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nyr7andcounting said:
How has it established that? In order to establish it, you would need a full European offseason when everyone is certain who is and who isn't playing in the NHL, or if there is even an NHL or not. This year, most European teams didn't even start negotiating with NHLers until after their season had pretty much started and every NHLer was on a contract with an escape clause. Give them a whole offseason knowing which NHLers are there to stay and they could get a lot more money out of sponsors, tickets etc. No league will ever have the overall talent or $$ that the NHL does, but if you don't think the Russian League can strengthen itself enough to keep some of the Euro players at home you are crazy.

If they could have before, then they would have before as well. With a tiny number of exceptions, they haven't. Why do you think that has suddenly changed?

The obvious answer is that the sponsors, tickets, etc, simply aren't there, no matter what you are claiming. If they were, they would have been taking some good players even when the NHL was running.
 

nyr7andcounting

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Crazy_Ike said:
If they could have before, then they would have before as well. With a tiny number of exceptions, they haven't. Why do you think that has suddenly changed?

The obvious answer is that the sponsors, tickets, etc, simply aren't there, no matter what you are claiming. If they were, they would have been taking some good players even when the NHL was running.
They couldn't before because the NHL players were making too much money for them to compete with. With this lockout and the new CBA, that is going to change for a lot of players at certain points in their careers. In the same way that a cheaper NHL market helps small market teams, because the same amount of money is now more competative, if also helps other leagues...especially Russia.

As NHL salaries drop more and more, European salaries become more and more competative, pretty simply. If NHL salaries drop low enough, which it looks like they are going to, than European salaries are better at certain points in careers...and more attractive to some euros who want to stay home. And if that's the case, than these Euro leagues will have an easier time getting their revenues up.
 

Crazy_Ike

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nyr7andcounting said:
They couldn't before because the NHL players were making too much money for them to compete with.

And they still will be, because there is no evidence other than your idle musings that they can afford the "5 million" silliness the other poster threw out. They couldn't during the lockout, they couldn't in the past, but suddenly you think they can now? Mindboggling.


As NHL salaries drop more and more

As NHL salaries drop more and more? What are you drinking? Even under the new CBA, NHL salaries will rise after the initial correction. They have in every other sport, cap or no cap.
 

nyr7andcounting

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Crazy_Ike said:
And they still will be, because there is no evidence other than your idle musings that they can afford the "5 million" silliness the other poster threw out. They couldn't during the lockout, they couldn't in the past, but suddenly you think they can now? Mindboggling.
Where in the world did I say anything about $5M salaries? Unless your argument is going to be realistic than there is no point. How many players do you think will be making that much under a $35-$45M cap? Not many, obviously. The ones that will be are the ones who would be playing here anyway. Where the NHL will lose players is off the 3rd/4th lines and on defense, where salaries are not as high...especially at the beginning and end of a players career.

European teams are going to be able to afford NHL salaries for more players at more points in their careers than they could before the lockout, that's pretty simple. Obviously they can't afford $5M contracts but that's not even what I am talking about.
 

Crazy_Ike

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nyr7andcounting said:
Where in the world did I say anything about $5M salaries?

YOU didn't, but my post that you replied to was replying to someone who DID. Remember context, my friend, and you won't get caught out like that.
 

nyr7andcounting

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Crazy_Ike said:
YOU didn't, but my post that you replied to was replying to someone who DID. Remember context, my friend, and you won't get caught out like that.

You said " because there is no evidence other than your idle musings that they can afford the "5 million" silliness the other poster threw out"

My point is that I wasn't trying to prove they could afford those salaries, yet you used the fact that they can't to discredit my argument. Doesn't make much sense. Forgetting about the other poster for now, as I said, if salaries drop enough European teams will become competative at more points in players careers...that's not a good thing.
 

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nyr7andcounting said:
You said " because there is no evidence other than your idle musings that they can afford the "5 million" silliness the other poster threw out"

My point is that I wasn't trying to prove they could afford those salaries, yet you used the fact that they can't to discredit my argument. Doesn't make much sense. Forgetting about the other poster for now, as I said, if salaries drop enough European teams will become competative at more points in players careers...that's not a good thing.

That would only be true if one made the very large and unsupported assumption that, with the NHL salary structure dropping, the European salary structure would remain the same. It is without doubt affected by the curently elevated NHL salary structure. If NHL salaries go down, it would surprise me if European salaries did not also go down.
 

nyr7andcounting

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gscarpenter2002 said:
That would only be true if one made the very large and unsupported assumption that, with the NHL salary structure dropping, the European salary structure would remain the same. It is without doubt affected by the curently elevated NHL salary structure. If NHL salaries go down, it would surprise me if European salaries did not also go down.
They could, but with a shock of NHLers who will be certain on wether or not they want to play in Europe for a whole season, I think revenues could increase and offset any drop in salaries in the "world" scale. Could be wrong, but the way I see it having more NHLers, or ex-NHLers, can only help the revenue situation of European clubs. More sponsors, more tickets possibly...with the increase in revenues I think they'll be paying the same salaries as they were.
 

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nyr7andcounting said:
They could, but with a shock of NHLers who will be certain on wether or not they want to play in Europe for a whole season, I think revenues could increase and offset any drop in salaries in the "world" scale. Could be wrong, but the way I see it having more NHLers, or ex-NHLers, can only help the revenue situation of European clubs. More sponsors, more tickets possibly...with the increase in revenues I think they'll be paying the same salaries as they were.

Maybe, maybe not. In fairness, I suspect there is no answer to this because we are talking about ticket demand and market conditions in Europe. For the most part, you and I and the rest of the posters on this board are mostly talking out of our butts when we talk about league economics in NORTH AMERICA. To take it to Europe is more than anyone can even hazard a half-a**ed guess about.
 
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