GWT: UEFA Champions League Round of 16

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Ligue 1 = Best league in the world

They call it Ligue 1 for a reason.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

See you next year I guess. Could easily overcome a 2-0 deficit, even a 3-0 could be overcome but a 4-0 just too much.

I guess PSG played their best game in a decade and we were not ready for it. We were just blown away by the intensity and play of PSG, we played bad but nothing to take away from PSG who were just miles better.

Some heads need to roll after today's game.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

This reminds me of Netherlands-Spain from World Cup 2014.

Good comparision actually

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

xG models had Dortmund with a far bigger advantage over Benfica than PSG had over Barca tonight. I am mad.

We are going through, as long as there aren't any big defensive errors in leg 2 and Ederson doesn't steal them another game. I saw possession was like 60-40 for us in the away leg, crazy for an okay team like Benfica to be outplayed so badly at home. Speaks to the Dortmund performance. Should've been no less than 2-1 or 3-1 Dortmund.

 

[Deficient Mode]

See you next year I guess. Could easily overcome a 2-0 deficit, even a 3-0 could be overcome but a 4-0 just too much.

I guess PSG played their best game in a decade and we were not ready for it. We were just blown away by the intensity and play of PSG, we played bad but nothing to take away from PSG who were just miles better.

Some heads need to roll after today's game.

Most of Barca's best players are old and their transfer policy has been really bad recently. Their financial power isn't endless either, despite their high revenue. Enrique gone won't be enough. I'd be very worried about the future if I were a Barca supporter.

We are going through, as long as there aren't any big defensive errors in leg 2 and Ederson doesn't steal them another game. I saw possession was like 60-40 for us in the away leg, crazy for an okay team like Benfica to be outplayed so badly at home. Speaks to the Dortmund performance. Should've been no less than 2-1 or 3-1 Dortmund.

I saw possession numbers closer to 70-30 at one point in the second half. Whoscored has it at 69%... Nice.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Barcelona has done this to themselves. No one but them to blame.

Their world class academy is of no use to them anymore. They have such an old squad. Not one player on their listed first team younger than 23. They fill their holes with players out of position, it can only get you so far. In the summer, they need a starting RB, a starting CB, a proven central midfielder who can defend, and a proven striker with some height.

I don't know why Barcelona thinks they are going to get good results with Gomes, D. Suarez, Alcacer, Digne, Umtiti as back ups. Players at that age need to play regularly. They shouldn't be back ups. You'll get inconsistent performances from them as back ups. Its a very poor buying strategy.

And Barcelona is so soft. Almost as soft as Arsenal. They need more height, more toughness, someone willing to put in a tackle. They should also experiment with some different formations. They get shredded apart at times in the current set up.

 

[Power Man]

Well the MSN has to take part of the blame

 

[Deficient Mode]

And Barcelona is so soft. Almost as soft as Arsenal. They need more height, more toughness, someone willing to put in a tackle.

No they're not, and no they don't.

 

[Power Man]

Naah Ghoulam will screw up like he did vs Juventus this season

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

No they're not, and no they don't.

I know everyone has this idea of what Barcelona must play like, but don't you think playing that way eventually takes a toll on the defensive side of the game? At their best, Barcelona could play that way because no one could take the ball from them.

Now, they aren't as good going forward and in possession, and they've only gotten worse defensively.

Its the same thing as a pitcher getting older, and not being able to throw 98 anymore, instead having to pick corners and mix pitches at five miles less.

They can't play the same way anymore. Won't work. Doesn't mean they need to play hoof-ball, but the days of 100% tiki-taka is over, as long as Barcelona wants to be the best team in the world. They'll get their lunch eaten by the better teams in the world who are much more well rounded than they are. Thats what happens when you lose Xavi, Iniesta gets older, Busquets gets older. Unless they do some major spending on players like Verrati, Weigl, De Bruyne, to try to replicate some of what their original midfield was, they have to change how they play. Their midfield is severely weakened from what it was at their best. The back line talent is also eroded. No Dani Alves, Pique getting older, Mascherano no longer capable of playing center-back.

 

[Deficient Mode]

I know everyone has this idea of what Barcelona must play like, but don't you think playing that way eventually takes a toll on the defensive side of the game? At their best, Barcelona could play that way because no one could take the ball from them.

Now, they aren't as good going forward and in possession, and they've only gotten worse defensively.

They can't play the same way anymore. Won't work. Doesn't mean they need to play hoof-ball, but the days of 100% tiki-taka is over, as long as Barcelona wants to be the best team in the world. They'll get their lunch eaten by the better teams in the world who are much more well rounded than they are.

At their best they were one of the best defensive teams in the world. It wasn't just that no one could take the ball from them, they were also extremely good at winning it back if they lost it. They won a treble and gave up the fewest goals in their league, and a whole 6 goals in 7 knockout matches against the best teams in the world in the CL... with all the same key players that they have now. If you think that they need to fundamentally change the kind of players they recruit, or that at their best they were soft, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Unless they do some major spending on players like Verrati, Weigl, De Bruyne, to try to replicate some of what their original midfield was, they have to change how they play. Their midfield is severely weakened from what it was at their best. The back line talent is also eroded. No Dani Alves, Pique getting older, Mascherano no longer capable of playing center-back.

Not sure where you get the idea that "someone who can put in a tackle" will make a bigger difference than even one of those players you named. Of course they need to get younger players in the molds of their current/past stars if they want to continue playing the way they have. No one disputes that. Their midfield in their most recent treble season was already very different in roles and skill level than they were under Pep btw.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Not sure where you get the idea that "someone who can put in a tackle" will make a bigger difference than even one of those players you named. Of course they need to get younger players in the molds of their current/past stars if they want to continue playing the way they have. No one disputes that. Their midfield in their most recent treble season was already very different in roles and skill level than they were under Pep btw.

I said they either try to mold a midfield after their past stars, so one with those players or they vary their style of play. Either would work, both styles can yield very good results.

Barcelona is very different now from their last treble season. Plus, yeah, there's always a chance that Messi, Suarez and Neymar carry them to trophies, but they shouldn't have to be expected to do everything.

 

[Deficient Mode]

I said they either try to mold a midfield after their past stars, so one with those players or they vary their style of play. Either would work, both styles can yield very good results.

Plus, yeah, there's always a chance that Messi, Suarez and Neymar carry them to trophies, but they shouldn't have to be expected to do everything.

When did they ever???

You said "the days of 100% tiki-taka is over, as long as Barcelona wants to be the best team in the world. They'll get their lunch eaten by the better teams in the world who are much more well rounded than they are." So yes, you did imply that they can't contend with "more well-rounded teams" (whatever that means) anymore with their "tiki taka" style, which they haven't played in a long time... if they ever did.

I'm not counting this generation or even this team out yet either. Even their older players still have plenty of class left.

 

[Panteras]

Messi to United in the summer for Hfboards to explode

 

[The Abusement Park]

Messi to United in the summer for Hfboards to explode

We'd finally find out if he can do it on a rainy night in Stoke then

 

[Halladay]

First time in a while where I cant remember one club being clearly better than all the others (not that that team has always won the competition). Other than Leicester, Benfica, Bayer, and Porto, I think all the other teams could win it under some scenario (yes, even Arsenal).

 

[Power Man]

With his goal against Barcelona tonight, Julian Draxler has scored on his debut for PSG in all three competitions (Coupe de France, Ligue 1 & Champions League)!

 

[cgf]

With his goal against Barcelona tonight, Julian Draxler has scored on his debut for PSG in all three competitions (Coupe de France, Ligue 1 & Champions League)!

He's been putting up excellent #s since moving to France. I really hope that moving to PSG is the push Draxler has needed these past few years to take that next step into the truly world class attacker that he should be.

 

[The Abusement Park]

He's been putting up excellent #s since moving to France. I really hope that moving to PSG is the push Draxler has needed these past few years to take that next step into the truly world class attacker that he should be.

When I was watching the game today I noticed they said Draxler was left footed, and I could've sworn he was right footed. I know he's very two footed, but CGF I'm sure you can tell me if I'm wrong or not here.

 

[maclean]

Luis Enrique to get sacked and be replaced by Arsene Wenger?

ftfy

 

[les Habs]

Well it sounds like a country ass-whippin' happened in Paris. It also sounds as though PSG were at their very best and we weren't close to our best. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't surprised because I am. I definitely felt as though the team was starting to improve slightly. Anyway, no time to watch it tonight so I'll have to catch up.

Most of Barca's best players are old and their transfer policy has been really bad recently. Their financial power isn't endless either, despite their high revenue. Enrique gone won't be enough. I'd be very worried about the future if I were a Barca supporter.

I'm worried, but not very worried. What worries me most is finding a new manager when Lucho goes. The right manager could turn things around, and they're not that bad to begin with, in short order.

The players end is somewhat worrisome, but only two good signings are really needed now with the rest being very manageable as the years go on. Of course that's easier said than done and we'll never be able to completely replace Messi, but considering the club produced players like Thiago and Bellerin, both of whom had they stayed would be the two good signings we need, leaves room for optimism. Still the transfers the past two years have been bad. You'd think that wouldn't be so difficult to sort out since it's quite obvious to people on an internet forum, but it happens at every club.

The reactions in this thread strike me as similar to when Bayern bounced us out a few years ago and we all know what Barça has done since then. I can't say the circumstances for such comments are the same though as I have yet to see the match, but it was very obvious then that the commentary are mentioned was way off the mark and history has demonstrated as much. Of course this time the team is different and so we'll see, but a good manager and a better policy towards building a squad could make the job look quite easy.

Barcelona has done this to themselves. No one but them to blame.

Their world class academy is of no use to them anymore. They have such an old squad. Not one player on their listed first team younger than 23. They fill their holes with players out of position, it can only get you so far. In the summer, they need a starting RB, a starting CB, a proven central midfielder who can defend, and a proven striker with some height.

I don't know why Barcelona thinks they are going to get good results with Gomes, D. Suarez, Alcacer, Digne, Umtiti as back ups. Players at that age need to play regularly. They shouldn't be back ups. You'll get inconsistent performances from them as back ups. Its a very poor buying strategy.

And Barcelona is so soft. Almost as soft as Arsenal. They need more height, more toughness, someone willing to put in a tackle. They should also experiment with some different formations. They get shredded apart at times in the current set up.

So much wrong with your posts in this thread as regard Barça.

I'll let you elaborate on the academy being of no use anymore. Just be specific as to why.

As for the squad being old, it isn't that old. Plenty of who I can only presume are the "old players" you're referring to considering you mentioned Busquets, who isn't old, still have plenty of game left in them.

As for what the team needs, you're somewhat right, but also well off. A starting RB for sure, but not really a starting CB. A proven CM yes, but one who can defend the way I can only assume you mean isn't necessary. I'd go a step past "proven" though and say a World class CM is needed. A proven striker with some height is almost laughable though. A backup striker with aerial ability might come in handy, but that sort of thinking was voiced years ago and what the team has once since then put that sort of thinking to bed. Besides, would you bench Suarez? Do you sub him on when you're losing? That's simply not the way the team plays and by then it's likely too late if you're actually having to resort to that.

For starters, a lot of those players haven't just been backups this season though. They've been rotational players. I'd even call Umtiti a starter. On top of that though, they're all proven players at their respective ages. Their ages aside though, who do they get? Every other club has younger players who are rotated in as backups and some perform and some don't. Barça could still have Pedro as a backup, but he wanted to leave for more playing time. Ditto for Thiago who'd actually be a starter right now. In fact in some sort of Football Manager fantasy world the bench could have Bravo, Bellerin, Thiago, Cesc, Pedro and Sanchez as backups. The problem is that they all wanted to leave for more playing time. The problem is quality. The problem isn't they're young backups, the problem is that they're not the class of player Barça should be signing. IMO it's too early to a degree to write some of them off, but in a Football Manager fantasy world I'd dump the lot of them except Umtiti.

I know everyone has this idea of what Barcelona must play like, but don't you think playing that way eventually takes a toll on the defensive side of the game? At their best, Barcelona could play that way because no one could take the ball from them.

Now, they aren't as good going forward and in possession, and they've only gotten worse defensively.

Its the same thing as a pitcher getting older, and not being able to throw 98 anymore, instead having to pick corners and mix pitches at five miles less.

They can't play the same way anymore. Won't work. Doesn't mean they need to play hoof-ball, but the days of 100% tiki-taka is over, as long as Barcelona wants to be the best team in the world. They'll get their lunch eaten by the better teams in the world who are much more well rounded than they are. Thats what happens when you lose Xavi, Iniesta gets older, Busquets gets older. Unless they do some major spending on players like Verrati, Weigl, De Bruyne, to try to replicate some of what their original midfield was, they have to change how they play. Their midfield is severely weakened from what it was at their best. The back line talent is also eroded. No Dani Alves, Pique getting older, Mascherano no longer capable of playing center-back.

You're not even characterizing how the team plays accurately. The team hasn't played "100% 'tiki taka'" for years now. It's as if you haven't seen them play for years. What's more is that if they did play that way successfully they'd actually be conserving a lot more energy than the opposing team.

Xavi? He's been gone for nearly two years and replacing him with a like player would likely mean going back to a possession based game to some degree. Yes, Iniesta is getting older, but he can still show up in a big match and still has some game. He's been hurt on and off this season and has hardly played. Busquets? Sure he's not young, but he still has time left. Last season he was monumental.

As for fixing things and the players you mentioned, as I mentioned above, had the club been able to hold on to the likes of Thiago and Bellerin the team would be notably better. Verratti is good, but doubt we ever get him and he'd cost a fortune. De Bruyne same thing, but also where do you play him? I know he's versatile, but you'd have to slot him a CM role or change the formation, neither of which would be ideal. Weigl? No. Weigl is quite a ways away from being needed. I can see where you'd think he would be if you think Busquets is old and on his last legs, but that isn't the case and so he's not needed. As for the state of the midfield, the question you have to ask yourself is why is weakened. You're of course overstating the case, but the question is still "why?" The answer is in large part down to selection/rotation, injuries and form. Still we're not even two years removed from the best midfield in the game and those three players are still in the team. And while a lot can change in just two years, you have to put things in their proper context.

Sure the back line has eroded, but you're again overstating things and not providing context. Sure Dani Alves is gone, but he chose to leave, he's 33 and you don't just go out and replace him but spending a ton of money. That said they do need to do a better job of replacing him, but had Bellerin just stayed with the club it would likely not be such an issue. Much like Busquets, you're making too much of Pique's age too soon. He's been quite good this season, again, and we don't need to replace him just yet. I agree on Masherano, but again who can they get? They've tried to sign say Marquinhos how many times now? So not only are there not a lot of options, but they also have been trying.

I said they either try to mold a midfield after their past stars, so one with those players or they vary their style of play. Either would work, both styles can yield very good results.

Barcelona is very different now from their last treble season. Plus, yeah, there's always a chance that Messi, Suarez and Neymar carry them to trophies, but they shouldn't have to be expected to do everything.

The problem is you've miss key issues and you're looking at it solely from the perspective of players. There are other issues right now:

-Injuries and form. All season long there have been injuries to some key players here and there. Nothing major, but Iniesta for example hasn't played much. In terms of form, Busquets' level has been notably off this season for example.

-Lucho rotates way too much.

-Lucho makes some poor selection choices and some players have suffered as a result. Rakitic comes to mind, and don't get me wrong as Rakitic owns some of that himself, but he's been rotated too much.

-They level of defensive play isn't there from a pressing standpoint. It's not way off, but it's not at it's peak either.

The team isn't very different. It's slightly different, but that's in large part to what I just noted. Bring in the right manager tomorrow and a lot of the issues can be fixed.

 

[cgf]

When I was watching the game today I noticed they said Draxler was left footed, and I could've sworn he was right footed. I know he's very two footed, but CGF I'm sure you can tell me if I'm wrong or not here.

You are correct.

 

[Corto]

-Lucho makes some poor selection choices and some players have suffered as a result. Rakitic comes to mind, and don't get me wrong as Rakitic owns some of that himself, but he's been rotated too much.

Rakitic's had a poor season by his standards, coupled with the apparent contract negotiations and interest from ManCity, but he's been looking better lately, had some good outings lately, and I don't understand why he was benched in favor of Andre freaking Gomes.

Barca's midfield got run over. Absolutely destoyed.
Iniesta can't do it on his own (he was invisible as well), but Busquets and Gomes get destroyed under pressure. And that's what PSG did, pressed them and made Pique/Umtiti/Busquets/Gomes do the passing - and created immediate turnovers.
Rampat aggression paired with some wonderful passing and running into empty spaces when they had the ball.

This wasn't a team getting a 1-0 lead and then counterattacking Barcelona to death.
It was a team absolutely dominating Barcelona in every area of the game.
It was beautiful to watch, and I'm not exactly a PSG fan.

Rabiot was amazing, to me he looks to be the next big thing in world class midfielders, along with Kovacic and some others.

...

Honestly, Barca was lucky it wasn't 5-0 or 6-0, all said and done.

 

[Evilo]

Really, Barca isn't in a hole like everyone claims here.
They simply need to buy a couple of players and they'll be fine.
Their D yesterday wasn't the problem, it was that midfield. They couldn't create anything and were dominated all over.
Of course Gomes looks like a Lorient player and Iniesta, coming off injury, looked like a ghost.
To be honest though, it had a lot to do with PSG's midfield performance. Matuidi, Verratti and Rabiot (which I've claimed for months should be the starting midfield, but Emery keeps on playing Motta) put in a performance for the ages. They were everywhere, aggressive, top notch passing, played between the lines and of course, in the case of Matuidi (and Rabiot somewhat), a crazy pressing.