World Cup: U-20 World Cup 2017 Thread

[bluesfan94]

You just created the most biased list ever and you call him biased?

As for Alonso, i find calling him better than Rose debatable. I may give him a slight edge but it's hardly clear and obvious.

"Most biased list ever"

Solid. I gave reasons for my placement.

 

[bluesfan94]

I'd say he's been the best for 3 years now, since Pochettino arrived

Nah, not really, though. Monreal was superb the last couple years until this year. Two years ago in particular. Also, if you're gonna discredit Alonso for being good because of a system, it's kinda ironic you give credit to Rose who's only looked good since he became part of a system.

 

[bluesfan94]

I also think Courtois was overrated back when people were considering him the best goalie in the world. He's top 5, but not top 3. This whole thing probably makes me look super biased against London goalies, which is fine, but they're my legitimate opinions as a goalkeeper.

TBH, I'd also consider moving de Gea up to the first tier.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

"Most biased list ever"

Solid. I gave reasons for my placement.

Can i hear your reasonings to why you think Baines is better than Rose, and that Shaw and Blind are equal to him then?

 

[bluesfan94]

Can i hear your reasonings to why you think Baines is better than Rose, and that Shaw and Blind are equal to him then?

This year I'll admit that Baines was not. Baines is more of a legacy pick, so to speak.

Again, I don't think Rose offers that much truly. To me, he's average defensively and good going forward. I think Shaw offers something similar, although he's been on and off the pitch. Blind, to me, is kinda unfair. He's not really a LB as much as a LCB in my eyes, but he's very strong defensively and I think works well in buildup play.

Now tell me where you'd rank Danny Rose and why he's better than XYZ that I decide to call you out on without providing any argument myself.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

This year I'll admit that Baines was not. Baines is more of a legacy pick, so to speak.

Again, I don't think Rose offers that much truly. To me, he's average defensively and good going forward. I think Shaw offers something similar, although he's been on and off the pitch. Blind, to me, is kinda unfair. He's not really a LB as much as a LCB in my eyes, but he's very strong defensively and I think works well in buildup play.

Now tell me where you'd rank Danny Rose and why he's better than XYZ that I decide to call you out on without providing any argument myself.

Sure thing. Gonna make dinner first.

 

[Evilo]

*googles Lloris' nationality*

Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, Navas is a better goalie than Lloris. So is Cech, although Cech and Buffon will probably both fall out of those tiers soon, but I actually don't think Lloris will move up.

*checks bluesfan's favourite league*
*checks bluefan's favourite team*
*checks his goalie list*
yeah that makes sense.

Navas has been awful this season except in the last two months. So yeah.
Cech has been miserable for years now. He's clearly not the goalie he once was.

Lloris has been a top 5 goalie throughout his career.
Of course, you're having this argument now right after his big blunder, but that doesn't change the fact he's easily top 5.
Neuer, DDG are clearly above him right now, Courtois most years, but certainly not the previous season.

 

[bluesfan94]

*checks bluesfan's favourite league*
*checks bluefan's favourite team*
*checks his goalie list*
yeah that makes sense.

Navas has been awful this season except in the last two months. So yeah.
Cech has been miserable for years now. He's clearly not the goalie he once was.

Lloris has been a top 5 goalie throughout his career.
Of course, you're having this argument now right after his big blunder, but that doesn't change the fact he's easily top 5.
Neuer, DDG are clearly above him right now, Courtois most years, but certainly not the previous season.

My favorite league? Pray tell, what is my favorite league?

Lloris simply isn't that good. You say after his big blunder as if he's only made one. He makes huge blunders way too often to be a top 5 goalie. That's just a fact.

I will agree that Courtois had an off year and Navas had an off half year. But they're both better, as is Buffon. I'll admit Cech could probably be bumped down a tier, but he's still damn good.

Ultimately, this is a subjective list based on my observations. And I think Lloris is overrated.

 

[Evilo]

Yeah forgot Buffon (who makes blunders too so that'd help you). I don't min him, but that still makes Lloris no worse than 5.
Lloris has been top 5 since his Nice days. He's made blunders, but far less than miraculous saves. "That's just a fact".
No way Navas is better. Navas had a grant total of ONE very good season (previous season), that hardly compares to 10 years of the highest level.

Calling me biased even though I have no problem saying a frenchman sucks is quite funny. Would be even more hilarious if you included Cech as goalies superior to Lloris.

Oh wait, you did

 

[bluesfan94]

I already addressed your Frenchman no bias claim; feel free to reconsult it if you missed it or didn't read it.

Lloris does make some miraculous saves but so does Navas and Mignolet and De Gea and ter Stegen and etc, etc, etc. Hell, I've made miraculous saves before.

You need to figure out what your argument is though. Is it that Lloris is better than Navas because he's had a better career or is it Lloris is better than Cech because he (maybe) is better than Cech right now?

Now let me include an emoji to make my argument better.

 

[Ceremony]

Lloris is better than Navas, Cech, Forster and whichever other diddy it was Evilo took umbrage with

 

[cgf]

*checks bluesfan's favourite league*
*checks bluefan's favourite team*
*checks his goalie list*
yeah that makes sense.

Navas has been awful this season except in the last two months. So yeah.
Cech has been miserable for years now. He's clearly not the goalie he once was.

Lloris has been a top 5 goalie throughout his career.
Of course, you're having this argument now right after his big blunder, but that doesn't change the fact he's easily top 5.
Neuer, DDG are clearly above him right now, Courtois most years, but certainly not the previous season.

A little ironic that you're taking this line of argument with Lloris when you crucify Sommer for letting in the occasional howler. Even though he might be an even better sweeper than Neuer and is high class in the more traditional aspects of goalkeeping.

So why shouldn't the odd howler be used to crucify Lloris? Especially since they are more common with him than with Sommer?

 

[Evilo]

I already addressed your Frenchman no bias claim; feel free to reconsult it if you missed it or didn't read it.

Lloris does make some miraculous saves but so does Navas and Mignolet and De Gea and ter Stegen and etc, etc, etc. Hell, I've made miraculous saves before.

You need to figure out what your argument is though. Is it that Lloris is better than Navas because he's had a better career or is it Lloris is better than Cech because he (maybe) is better than Cech right now?

Now let me include an emoji to make my argument better.

Lloris had both a better career and a better season than Navas. So what's your point exactly?
Cech had a better peak than Lloris, but has been inferior to him for years.

Again, what's your point?

 

[Evilo]

You crucify Sommer for the occasional howler; even though he might be an even better sweeper than Neuer and is high class in the more traditional aspects of goalkeeping.

So why shouldn't the odd howler be used to crucify Lloris? Especially since they are more common with him than with Sommer?

I crucify Sommer because you vastly overrate him, that's why. It took you some time to realize Hummels wasn't the best CB in the world, as I told you right when you started hyping him.
Same with Gotze and others.
At some point, you have to look at how you rated players and what they become.
And after that, ask yourself if you need to correct that bias of yours.

Comparing Sommer to Lloris is another thing you need to think a few times before posting.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

So, U-20 players amirite? Alban Lafont? That's a U20 keeper who's French and talented! Let's talk about him!

 

[Evilo]

Haha, but he sure didn't shine against Italy (can't say he made mistakes, but he wasn't decisive).

 

[cgf]

I crucify Sommer because you vastly overrate him, that's why. It took you some time to realize Hummels wasn't the best CB in the world, as I told you right when you started hyping him.
Same with Gotze and others.
At some point, you have to look at how you rated players and what they become.
And after that, ask yourself if you need to correct that bias of yours.

Comparing Sommer to Lloris is another thing you need to think a few times before posting.

Good lord do you love your straw men. I never claimed Hummels was the best CB; I did however point out that he was the best ball playing CB a few years ago, when he was.

And what about Gotze? Should we force Rabiot to play forward for the next 3 years and see how close to his potential he comes? Like Draxler Gotze's development was botched; that doesn't negate their talent level or the potential that they once had. Or would it be fair to laugh at you in a couple of years if Mbappe was converted to a midfielder and never got to become the world class player he has the potential to become now?

As for my evaluations, Boateng, Hummels, Kroos, Gundogan, Reus, Brandt, Dahoud, Kimmich, Ozil, and many more have developed into the quality of players I said they could become. Or do those examples not count because their development wasn't mishandled?

PS the only times I talk about Sommer are when you go off on him or last summer when Pep was pushing hard to bring him along to Manchester. So that part of your post is just pure BS.

 

[Evilo]

I wonder why Gotze was turned into a midfielder... Coaches are such idiots...
Kimmich, Dahoud, Brandt developed?
They're work in progress. Just because you claim Dahoud is a top 5 midfielder doesn't mean it's right.

Only times you talk about Sommer is when I talk about him?
Really? Look at this thread !

 

[Ceremony]

So, U-20 players amirite? Alban Lafont? That's a U20 keeper who's French and talented! Let's talk about him!

I enjoyed the BBC commentary of the final bemoaning the potential opportunities for someone like the English goalkeeper Freddie Woodman because teams like Man City can go out and spend thirty million on anyone. While it's refreshing to see people are getting what I said a year ago (especially since there's nothing that can realistically be done about it outside perennial midtable teams like Everton and Southampton) the fact that the whole of English domestic football is centred around the money the Premier League affords to teams means none of the teams at the top level or below it are going to risk these kinds of players unless someone genuinely remarkable like Kane comes through. Even he had several unremarkable loan spells to his name which wouldn't have suggested anything like the subsequent top flight record he's managing.

I did also like how they kept talking Woodman up while most of Venezuela's chances were potshots coming from 30+ yards.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Since it was asked where I'd rank Rose:

Marcelo
Alaba

Sandro
Luis
Alba
Kurzawa

Alonso
Rodriguez
Mendy
Guerreiro
Hector
Ghoulam
Rose

So between spots 7-13.

Baines and Shaw have become too hampered by injuries.

Bernat and Gaya are similar players to Rose but I don't find them as good offensively.

Blind doesn't contribute much offensively at all.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Schmelzer is underrated tbh. He's also better than Rose. Rodriguez doesn't really belong there imo.

Just about every prominent LB on a prominent team is better than Rose. And a bunch who aren't on prominent teams.

 

[YNWA14]

Where's James Milner?

Also Sommer is just as good as Lloris.

 

[Ceremony]

Where's James Milner?

Busy being killed by a dinosaur

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Uh, not really though.

I've watched too many Tottenham games cause one of my roommates in college was a Spurs fan (NLD were fun) and now, back home, my best friend is a Tottenham fan, but tell me more about how I don't watch enough. Rose is solid. But he's hardly the best in the EPL, let alone London, let alone North London, with the exclusion of 2016-17, although if you are playing the injury card on other players, it must be played against Rose, as well.

I didn't say you don't watch enough, so maybe you should calm down.

I'v seen a lot of negative comments about Davies the last year, especially when he had to play every week. From how I understand it, he struggled. Maybe you thought otherwise. Thats besides the point though.

And I don't remember playing the injury card with any player, so I don't know what you are talking about.

My point stands. If you consider the last few seasons, obviously not considering a few month spell where he was injured, Rose is one of the top few LB's in the world. The fact people are going to such outrageous lengths to discredit him is beyond me.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I wouldn't even consider Guerreiro a LB.

Tuchel pretty much refused to play him at LB this season because he couldn't defend. Part of it was Schmelzer, but that wasn't all of it.

He's a LWB, who can play LB, CM and LM in a pinch.

Great player, just don't think he's a LB.