World Cup: U-20 World Cup 2017 Thread

[Deficient Mode]

Which of the two is Spurs letting go? Its Walker, not Rose.

Which of those two is a bigger club more eager to get from Spurs? It's Walker, not Rose.

Rose has grown as a footballer in the past couple of years, but before that he was a glorified headless chicken. No way does he crack my top 10 list.

 

[bluesfan94]

Glad someone gets it.

They're letting Walker go because he has suitors who would pay a lot of money for him, because he is a top player. They will also raise his wage to more than he could make at Tottenham, because he is that good.

If Rose was a top player he would have those suitors too, and because Tottenham don't pay massive wages, if he was that good he would leave too. Very very simple to figure out.

Once Tottenham pays top wages the situation will change, but for now? We can tell who a top player is if they leave Tottenham, Kane being the only exception.

Alderweireld and Alli are exceptions as of now as well.

 

[Cassano]

Alderweireld and Alli are exceptions as of now as well.

Lloris as well.

Still not sure why he hasn't played for a top club.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

To clarify, both players are at Spurs, so it could really be moot, if neither leaves. But there's been plenty of interest in Rose. Put his name into google, and search. I'm pretty sure the reason that Walker is more likely to go is that Trippier is a good enough replacement for Walker, while Davies really struggled to replace Rose.

But anyway, I think he kind of suffers in perception due to only making recent improvements. The present Rose of the last few years has been one of the best LB's in the world, and the best in the Premier League. Thats my opinion, and I think people just haven't watched enough to see it. Rose is every bit as important to Spurs defense as any of their defenders. Docking him for his play a few years ago would be like docking Filipe Luis for not getting playing time under Mourinho. Lets talk about now. Right now, there are not that many LB's better than Rose, at least from my perspective.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Luis and Baines suffer because of age. Shaw/Gaya/Guerriero figure to develop even more.

How do 31 and 32 year olds suffer in age? Do you think Ronaldo wouldn't go for 100M or more right now because he's 32?

And I'm not sure guys in their early 20's suffer in market value. If anything, those players are probably overpaid for more than any players because they are old enough where they should figure to be a fixture in a team right away, and teams think they have enough potential that they'll pay more than their worth.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Let me begin by agreeing that PB is overrating him. However I'd say that he still is a top ten LB. Comparing him to Shaw and Blind is one of the most mental things I've heard.

Spurs are letting Walker leave precisely because he's a better player. That's how it works.

Yikes.

Walker having a huge ego is no news. Don't expect Danny to get many suitors seeing how he's injured.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Lloris as well.

Still not sure why he hasn't played for a top club.

He does

 

[bluesfan94]

How do 31 and 32 year olds suffer in age? Do you think Ronaldo wouldn't go for 100M or more right now because he's 32?

And I'm not sure guys in their early 20's suffer in market value. If anything, those players are probably overpaid for more than any players because they are old enough where they should figure to be a fixture in a team right away, and teams think they have enough potential that they'll pay more than their worth.

Ronaldo is an exception, not the rule. I think Ronaldo would go for a lot more if he were 24 than he would now.

The moral of the story is that we're still debating transfermarkt values and not actual performance.

 

[bluesfan94]

Lloris as well.

Still not sure why he hasn't played for a top club.

He's too error prone, tbh. I think he's overrated. top 10 goalie, not top 5

 

[bluesfan94]

To clarify, both players are at Spurs, so it could really be moot, if neither leaves. But there's been plenty of interest in Rose. Put his name into google, and search. I'm pretty sure the reason that Walker is more likely to go is that Trippier is a good enough replacement for Walker, while Davies really struggled to replace Rose.

But anyway, I think he kind of suffers in perception due to only making recent improvements. The present Rose of the last few years has been one of the best LB's in the world, and the best in the Premier League. Thats my opinion, and I think people just haven't watched enough to see it. Rose is every bit as important to Spurs defense as any of their defenders. Docking him for his play a few years ago would be like docking Filipe Luis for not getting playing time under Mourinho. Lets talk about now. Right now, there are not that many LB's better than Rose, at least from my perspective.

Uh, not really though.

I've watched too many Tottenham games cause one of my roommates in college was a Spurs fan (NLD were fun) and now, back home, my best friend is a Tottenham fan, but tell me more about how I don't watch enough. Rose is solid. But he's hardly the best in the EPL, let alone London, let alone North London, with the exclusion of 2016-17, although if you are playing the injury card on other players, it must be played against Rose, as well.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Danny Rose is neat and all, but damn PB pump the brakes. Not the best in London (Marcos Alonso is easily better), nor the EPL (again, Marcos Alonso). #3 overall? Yeah no way.

He's too error prone, tbh. I think he's overrated. top 10 goalie, not top 5

To me he's, at worst, #6. Who do you have ahead of him?

 

[YNWA14]

Once Tottenham pays top wages the situation will change, but for now? We can tell who a top player is if they leave Tottenham, Kane being the only exception.

Eh...we'll see. Eriksen, Alderweireld, Vertonghen and Dembele are all very good. Dier, too, is very good at what he does.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Danny Rose is neat and all, but damn PB pump the brakes. Not the best in London (Marcos Alonso is easily better), nor the EPL (again, Marcos Alonso). #3 overall? Yeah no way.



To me he's, at worst, #6. Who do you have ahead of him?

I don't find it too clear at all that Alonso would be better honestly.

I agree about your evaluation of Lloris though. Makes stupid mistakes, but still very good.

 

[MJG]

Danny Rose is neat and all, but damn PB pump the brakes. Not the best in London (Marcos Alonso is easily better), nor the EPL (again, Marcos Alonso). #3 overall? Yeah no way.



To me he's, at worst, #6. Who do you have ahead of him?

Why is Alonso better?

 

[bluesfan94]

Danny Rose is neat and all, but damn PB pump the brakes. Not the best in London (Marcos Alonso is easily better), nor the EPL (again, Marcos Alonso). #3 overall? Yeah no way.



To me he's, at worst, #6. Who do you have ahead of him?

I'll use tiers

Neuer

Buffon
Cech
Courtois
de Gea
Navas

Forster
Lloris
Szczesny (fight me on this)
ter Stegen
A few others.

 

[bluesfan94]

Why is Alonso better?

Well, he's a better defender, for one, and then he also crosses better and offers more going forward in general.

Or, more succinctly, because he plays soccer better.

 

[Evilo]

I'll use tiers

Neuer

Buffon
Cech
Courtois
de Gea
Navas

Forster
Lloris
Szczesny (fight me on this)
ter Stegen
A few others.

Navas?
Cech?
Forster?

Oh my...

 

[bluesfan94]

Navas?
Cech?
Forster?

Oh my...

*googles Lloris' nationality*

Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, Navas is a better goalie than Lloris. So is Cech, although Cech and Buffon will probably both fall out of those tiers soon, but I actually don't think Lloris will move up.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

I don't find it too clear at all that Alonso would be better honestly.

I agree about your evaluation of Lloris though. Makes stupid mistakes, but still very good.

Why is Alonso better?

Well, he's a better defender, for one, and then he also crosses better and offers more going forward in general.

Or, more succinctly, because he plays soccer better.

Obviously I'm a Chelsea fan, so I'm biased, but Alonso really impressed me in that LWB spot. He was continuously threatening offensively (6 goals in the league), great crosser, had really strong chemistry with our forwards, and was pretty relentless defensively. Also worth noting that he is actually younger than Danny Rose (only by 6 months), which I didn't realize until just now. bluesfan94 (an Arsenal fan, I might add, so not gonna be sympathetic to either player) sums it up pretty well.

*googles Lloris' nationality*

Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, Navas is a better goalie than Lloris. So is Cech, although Cech and Buffon will probably both fall out of those tiers soon, but I actually don't think Lloris will move up.

I'm a Canadian Chelsea fan. No way in hell is Cech currently better than Lloris, and resorting to the classic strawmanning of Evilo as French-biased (an argument which has been disproven) isn't a great way to tackle it. Forster and Szcezcny as better than Lloris is also weak.

 

[MJG]

Meh.....Alonso was certainly fantastic this season, but he excelled in a role that made Victor Moses look like a good football player soooo.....I don't want to take anything away from him, but it's a little presumptuous to say he's far and away better.

And I mean to the Arsenal fan who said he wasn't the best left back in North London......c'mon

 

[bluesfan94]

Meh.....Alonso was certainly fantastic this season, but he excelled in a role that made Victor Moses look like a good football player soooo.....I don't want to take anything away from him, but it's a little presumptions to say he's far and away better.

And I mean to the Arsenal fan who said he wasn't the best left back in North London......c'mon

This year Rose was, which is why I excepted this season.

 

[MJG]

I'd say he's been the best for 3 years now, since Pochettino arrived

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

*googles Lloris' nationality*

Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, Navas is a better goalie than Lloris. So is Cech, although Cech and Buffon will probably both fall out of those tiers soon, but I actually don't think Lloris will move up.

You just created the most biased list ever and you call him biased?

As for Alonso, i find calling him better than Rose debatable. I may give him a slight edge but it's hardly clear and obvious.

 

[bluesfan94]

I'm a Canadian Chelsea fan. No way in hell is Cech currently better than Lloris, and resorting to the classic strawmanning of Evilo as French-biased (an argument which has been disproven) isn't a great way to tackle it. Forster and Szcezcny as better than Lloris is also weak.

I didn't say Forster was better than Lloris. Szczesny had a fantastic year this year in all honesty, but I understand why people are hesitant there. Cech is an interesting situation. It's clear that he's falling off and he's had rough games, but if we're being honest with ourselves, Lloris has had some absolute howlers. Look at his recent game against Ireland, for example, but there was also a game, I don't remember who, during the end of the season where he gifted two goals in a game Tottenham should and needed to win. Lloris sometimes comes up with some stupendous saves, don't get me wrong, but I legitimately think he's overrated.

I mean, I don't know that's it's been disproven, unless you think that favoring French players means only favoring every single French player in every single situation. I favor Arsenal players, but I still think some of our players suck and I'll say that. Mertesacker is slow as hell, Jenkinson lacks a brain, Wilshere is great for 5 minutes and then gets hurt, Özil can be soft, Sanchez is streaky, Giroud misses sitters, etc. I still favor them.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Meh.....Alonso was certainly fantastic this season, but he excelled in a role that made Victor Moses look like a good football player soooo.....I don't want to take anything away from him, but it's a little presumptuous to say he's far and away better.

And I mean to the Arsenal fan who said he wasn't the best left back in North London......c'mon

Alonso also seriously outplayed Victor Moses in that role, so to equate his good performance to Moses's is silly (especially considering Moses was pretty poor for most of the second half of the campaign).