Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by CrossCheck, Aug 28, 2004.
Tyutin vs Grebeshkov
Quick question : Who to chose to get the best in return and why???
Grebeshkov if you're talking about a point scoring keeper league.
Otherwise I'd say tough call, but very slight edge to Tjutin.
Tyutin. He's a full package!
Funny, I'd say the other way around.
I love both young Russian defensemen, but there is little question that right now Tyutin is the better player. I see Tyutin being more of a all-purpose man who can play the power play, PK, and even strength, whereas I feel Grebeshkov will be almost another Mattias Norstrom - maybe less of a physical specimen, but more aggressive at the same time.
I think people overrate Tyutin. We Ranger fans have discussed and think we will turn into a 3rd defensemen. Not that anythings wrong with that. But yes, an 'all-purpose man' is a good way of saying it. He doesnt specialize in anything. Even though hes capable I dont think he will man the PP. Kondratiev and Pock have more offensive force from our prospects and them, along with Poti and Rachuneck are ahead of him for PP duties this season.
Man, are you guys going to be pleasantly surprised. Hell, as soon as next season he could be on the top pairing!
He will be. But thats not saying much with this...
Theres no other way to align it. Pock needs to be with a defensive first guy in his rookie season and the other rookies shouldnt play together.
uhhh, we ranger fans have discussed this and think he's a 3rd defenseman? apparently i wasn't informed of this development when all the ranger fans got together and agreed that's our opinion on tyutin
not to disparage your opinion, but your the first rangers fan (i think) i've seen say tyutin is anything LESS than a number 2. about all i've seen is people say "well he's not a sure fire #1 franchise guy but he should be a good #2 defenseman".
i also question why you think that kondratiev is more of an offensive force...because he was described in one scouting report as being an offensive defenseman? that's the only thing i can really figure when people say he's an offensvie defensemen...i saw one report that said something to that effect but was actually implying that he is a good skater with a nice shot and passing...but was tough in his own end, etc etc...much like tyutin, a two way guy...they were using the term offensive defenseman to describe the fact that he's a good skater and all that kind of stuff, not cuz he generates tons of offense. in fact from all descriptions kondratiev sounds more like a tyutin "light".
now i'll go out on a limb...i don't think i'm overrating tyutin when i say i think he has the pure skill and talent to be a #1 defenseman...i saw a lot of flashes and things in his game while he was with the rangers that made me think if he really reached his potential he could be a really awesome defenseman. BUT...i don't think he'll quite do that. i think he'll be a solid #2 defenseman who contributes on both sides of the ice. the guy has a ton of talent but i don't think the way he'll put it together will make him a real #1.
but obviously my opinion is open to critisism as well...
obviously I dont speak for everyone but on HB a bunch of us were talking about tyutin - the general idea was h'ed be a 2nd or 3rd defensemen. I agree with this comment "i think he'll be a solid #2 defenseman who contributes on both sides of the ice." Thats what I meant, if I put the number two in my above post I think you would have a different opinion on the post. I meant 2nd or 3rd. Playing it conservative, people usually tend to hype up most prospects. I try to be realistic and objective.
IMO I dont think he is a #1. I just dont see it, I dont know how to explain it but from my view he doesnt look like he stands out that much. Kinda hard to explain, forgive me but I just dont think hes #1 material.
From what Ive read on Kondratiev Im very confursed, so you might be right. Ive read he is a total offensive defensemen and Ive read hes a two way defensemen.
I see Tjutin and Woywitka as very similar players in that neither is going to be spectacular; but both are defensively responsible, know where to send the puck, and can lay a hit from time to time. Their games are reminiscent of Mattias Ohlund, although I don't think they'll ever be quite as offensively astute or as powerful as hitters.
They are players who if all goes as planned could play on a top pairing if called upon on a poor team or be a second pairing defenseman on a team with some depth. Given time I think we'll see both develop into the same kind of versatile 2-4 defenseman, giving their goalie confidence and chipping in 25 points.
i get conflicting things from what i saw of tyutin in the NHL vs the AHL for one thing...i saw him stand out a lot on the NHL level (and yeah he did make his share of mistakes as well, which is to be expected, but that's not what made him stand out the most). at the AHL level though he definatly played reserved and didn't do as much. whether that was what the coaches wanted or just because of his personal opinions of playing in the AHL, who knows, but i think he's a better NHL player than AHL player.
he also had a LOT of good scoring chances in the NHL before he got his first goal and many afterwards too...if he wants to and tries i think he could nurture that along and put up respectable point totals pretty easily...but in general i think the coaches want and he will turn out to be a 2-way guy who does put up pretty good offensive numbers, plays good defense...and probably be a #2 defenseman. what i'm saying when i say i think he has the talent to be a #1 is just that i think he has a whole lot of talent that if he really tapped and exploited, could make him a #1. kind of like malakhov (though i shudder to compare the two). malakhov could have been a norris candidate if he utilized all his skill, he was amazingly talented. i don't think tyutin will realize all his skill, not cuz he's lazy or anything, but just because most prospects and players never really do realize all of their skill.
i'm tired and it probably just seems like i'm rambling...
kondratiev...dunno, i haven't seen anything that i recall that says he was a total offensive defenseman. like i said, the best description i've gathered from everything is he's kind of tyutin "light". 2-way player. solid in his own end, can skate the puck, pass it, shoot it, contribute in the play but isn't gonna be a brian leetch out there on offense.
Definitley agree from what I saw in the AHL playoffs.
I think Tyutin will be a 10 goal 30 assist good +/- and 80 PIM. I recently compared his as 'Roman Hamrlik esque'. Solid, but hes just as valuable on defense. From scouting reports Ive read he rarely gets beat one on one and forces people to the outside. I just hope he doesnt get killed net year from all the minutes. He average 22 mintues/game last season.
Judging by what I swa and read of the exhibition games he played with Toronto he's really an offensive defenseman.... but a couple of games don't mean much.
that sounds about what i'd expect maybe...between 30-40 points and good all around. roman hamrlik is probably a decent comparison in terms of the type of play...though i've always felt hamrlik kind of takes games off and make mental gaffs at times and i hope tyutin can do better than that.
maybe, i dunno, it's hard since i haven't really seen him! heh. most of the scouting reports i saw seem to indicate he's a 2-way guy, and a leafs fan posted over on the rangers board once that he's the kind of guy who plays bigger than he is in the defensive zone and does a pretty good job...another leafs fan (or maybe the same one) said he did show some offensive flash at times but was more defensive minded in the 7 games he played for the leafs...so i dunno, i'm gonna stick with my feeling he's kind of a 2-way defenseman
A lot of analysis for Tyutin. Maybe I can add something for Grebs for comparison.
Kings scouting department compares Grebs to Wade Redden or Daryl Sydor. He'll get you about 40 points a season, maybe not as physical as a 80-100 PIM guy (he'll be more like 40 PIM), but is excellent in 1-on-1 situations and is consistently high in +/-. He also can play even, PK or PP, but he's more of a puck-rusher on the PP than a gun at the blue-line and will get his share of PP assists and probably not that many PP goals.
Someone mentioned he'll be similar to Matty Norstrom, less physical but more aggressive. I see him as being less physical and less aggressive but more offensive. From what I have seen of him (it was only a handful of NHL games, some video of AHL games, and from prospect camp practices and scrimmages), it appears to me he is less aggressive - instead opting to let the play come to him and rely on his skating and positioning to stop the play. Or maybe that's just the way he's been playing lately because he is still adapting to the style on this side of the pond. The Norstrom comparison might be fair, but I see him as less physical and aggressive but more offensive.
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