Tyson Jost

[MarkT]

People (and the Avs too) need to get off this "he needs to score more" nonsense with Toninato.

Repeat after me: He. Is. A. Defensive. Forward. If the Avs are now balking at the fact that he's not showing much offensive creativity then they were fools to sign him in the first place. He has been everything as advertised.

In his brief stint with the Avs he was on the right side of all possession/shot metrics and was quite adept at getting the puck out of danger and into the offensive zone. So the **** what if he can't put the puck in the net?

It is kind of a weird culture thing with the NHL as a whole that purely defensive forwards like Dwight King essentially get ousted while talentless knobs like Tanner Glass somehow stay in the league well past their expiration dates. I hope the Avs buck this stupid trend, but even they seem prone to it (i.e. so-called "defensive forward" Gabriel Bourque, who's actually not that good defensively).

The issue is that if a forward is purely defensive, he tends to hold back the offensive production of his linemates. If a player is not capable of helping the players around him produce offense, and he's incapable of producing offense for himself, then I see him as a detriment to the team. I'm not expecting a guy like Toni to score many goals, but I'd at least like to see him getting assists in the AHL because I'd want to see that from him in the NHL too.

Dwight King averaged .3 points per game in his career, by the way, so I don't see how both he and Toni can be called a purely defensive forward.

 

[Balthazar]

i'd still take Jost over most of the other options drafted in the 10-20 range, obviously excluding Chychrun and McAvoy.

Not like we needed D at the time anyway.

We pretty much all have to agree with @henchman24 that Jost just doesn't have the size to back his lack of explosiveness. He also doesn't have a particular elite skill like, say, Brock Boeser. There's a good chance that he never develops well in the NHL.

It was painful to watch him getting ragdolled yesterday.

 

[Pokecheque]

The issue is that if a forward is purely defensive, he tends to hold back the offensive production of his linemates. If a player is not capable of helping the players around him produce offense, and he's incapable of producing offense for himself, then I see him as a detriment to the team. I'm not expecting a guy like Toni to score many goals, but I'd at least like to see him getting assists in the AHL because I'd want to see that from him in the NHL too.

Dwight King averaged .3 points per game in his career, by the way, so I don't see how both he and Toni can be called a purely defensive forward.

.3 PPG is not that great. King's value is in his ability on defense, something which 31 teams overlooked, which prompted him to head to Russia despite the fact that he still had some very good years left. That's my point.

Right now Toni is a guy who can get the puck out of the defensive zone and into the attacking zone, and keep it there. That's more valuable than some crash-and-bang grinder who's a liability at both ends of the ice, but coaches and managers generally don't see it that way. Just because he can't make deft passes or fire bombs at the net or deflect shots or even pounce on rebounds doesn't mean he's really any sort of liability.

And right now the Avs have too many guys in the lineup who handle the puck like a grenade AND can't generate any offense. I'd rather they have a guy in there who can at least do one of those things.

 

[MarkT]

.3 PPG is not that great. King's value is in his ability on defense, something which 31 teams overlooked, which prompted him to head to Russia despite the fact that he still had some very good years left. That's my point.

Right now Toni is a guy who can get the puck out of the defensive zone and into the attacking zone, and keep it there. That's more valuable than some crash-and-bang grinder who's a liability at both ends of the ice, but coaches and managers generally don't see it that way. Just because he can't make deft passes or fire bombs at the net or deflect shots or even pounce on rebounds doesn't mean he's really any sort of liability.

And right now the Avs have too many guys in the lineup who handle the puck like a grenade AND can't generate any offense. I'd rather they have a guy in there who can at least do one of those things.

I agree with your point about him being more valuable than a guy who handles the puck like a grenade, but I think you're completely missing my point about King. Yes, his main value was his defensive ability, but that wasn't his only value. He at least produced some offense. That's all I'd want out of Toni - something more than zero offense.

And no, zero offensive ability isn't a liability. That's not the right word. As I pointed out though, zero offensive ability is a drain on his linemates, because for forwards, especially 4th line types, every player on the line tends to handle the puck, and if one guy is incapable of both setting up his linemates and being set up, then that line as a whole is unlikely to produce offensively even if the other two guys have some offensive skill. Now, if you had a whole line of Toni's, then maybe it would work because that line wouldn't need to score because they would be so dominant defensively and would consistently hem the opponent into their zone. But that's not the situation the Avs are in - Toni would be playing with players for whom offensive is a part of their game, and he'd be hindering that part by being their centerman.

Now, to be clear, I'd rather have Toni than Gork, but Gork's not a center, so they're not actually competing for the same roster spot.

 

[agentblack]

I said in the proposals thread that Jost needs to sit in the press box for a couple. I read a stat that he had 1 shot in 4 games? Like the kid needs to watch the game for awhile. It wouldnt be the first time a highly touted pick got scratched and when he comes back put him on the wing

 

[Balthazar]

I said in the proposals thread that Jost needs to sit in the press box for a couple. I read a stat that he had 1 shot in 4 games? Like the kid needs to watch the game for awhile. It wouldnt be the first time a highly touted pick got scratched and when he comes back put him on the wing

Sitting him will do no good.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Sitting him will do no good.

Playing him doesn't appear to be doing any good either.

 

[MarkT]

I said in the proposals thread that Jost needs to sit in the press box for a couple. I read a stat that he had 1 shot in 4 games? Like the kid needs to watch the game for awhile. It wouldnt be the first time a highly touted pick got scratched and when he comes back put him on the wing

Sit him on the bench in Loveland while he recovers from his shift playing on the top line.

 

[Balthazar]

Here's what AJ had to say about him after the game:

Tyson Jost (D+) – I hate to do it to one of the nice guys of the sport but Jost just didn’t play well tonight. I’m not going to go crazy over the offside. We’re talking about less than a full second of timing at full speed. But beyond that, he just wasn’t good. His complete lack of confidence is killing him. For a kid who is so tough on himself every day, he has to be in a bad spot mentally right now. I wonder if he could use a night off to recalibrate himself emotionally. Something is broken right now.

 

[Pokecheque]

Send him down or put him on the wing and let someone else do the dirty work on that line. Too much is being asked of him right now and he's wilting badly.

I still think they gotta put Nieto in the press box first, or Bourque. TBH I wish they'd just waive him and get it over with, but they won't. I swear the only purpose he serves is being the only guy in the locker room Sammy can speak French with.

Anyway, I thought Nieto was flat-out at war with the puck last night, he's also looking like he's just coasting out there. I don't think he's being lazy, but the fiery Long Beach dude who forechecked like a madman is just not there right now. Sit him a couple, he kinda/sorta needed a rest at the beginning of last season and it did him some good.

 

[henchman21]

Sitting him will do no good.

I think a couple games could do him some good. Young players do have some mental issues that crop up where they need a mental break from gamedays. Knock them out of their routine and force some changes from a mental prep. It can also be a good wake up call. We've seen it with a number of players throughout the years. Sometimes sitting is a good thing. What you don't want is sitting for weeks.

 

[MarkT]

Send him down or put him on the wing and let someone else do the dirty work on that line. Too much is being asked of him right now and he's wilting badly.

I still think they gotta put Nieto in the press box first, or Bourque. TBH I wish they'd just waive him and get it over with, but they won't. I swear the only purpose he serves is being the only guy in the locker room Sammy can speak French with.

I honestly wouldn't be shocked if this were a little bit true.

 

[Balthazar]

I think a couple games could do him some good. Young players do have some mental issues that crop up where they need a mental break from gamedays. Knock them out of their routine and force some changes from a mental prep. It can also be a good wake up call. We've seen it with a number of players throughout the years. Sometimes sitting is a good thing. What you don't want is sitting for weeks.

Yeah sitting because he lacks confidence is OK. I wouldn't sit him to punish him like Bednar did with Z though.

 

[Pokecheque]

I mean, the Preds are scratching Kevin Fiala tonight in favor of Rocco "Holy Shit" Grimaldi, so scratching Tyson Jost wouldn't be worse than that.

 

[Balthazar]

I honestly wouldn't be shocked if this were a little bit true.

Barbs is French too. I highly doubt Girard absolutely needs a French speaking guy anyway.

 

[agentblack]

I mean, the Preds are scratching Kevin Fiala tonight in favor of Rocco "Holy ****" Grimaldi, so scratching Tyson Jost wouldn't be worse than that.

I will never forget Altitude playing his christian hip hop coming back from a commercial break...im like "what is happening right now??!!"

But yeah man, sometimes the younglings need to be sat, not the end of the world. Id be more worried if he got sent to the A
Like imagine Brock Boeser being sent to the AHL? what kind of message would that send to the rest of the league

 

[Avsboy]

Having watched every game this season, I don't see "it" with Jost. He hasn't generated anything.

 

[McMetal]

Avs' Tyson Jost on slow start: 'I need to be better'

It sounds like he's putting a lot of pressure on himself, and it's a confidence issue.

 

[Piestany88]

I did think that Jost is doing too much grinding/cycling along the boards and trying to muck around in the slot when he should be getting open for shots. We actually saw him making a concerted effort to get more shots off last night, but given how he's playing right now they weren't very effective. I always thought he'd be a better shoot-first guy, either at C or on the wing, but either way, I view him as a Brayden Schenn-type. He'll be good, but he needs a star on his line to be effective.

Schenn took years to be a center as well , like last year was his 1st

 

[CobraAcesS]

Avs' Tyson Jost on slow start: 'I need to be better'

It sounds like he's putting a lot of pressure on himself, and it's a confidence issue.

Great, a Duchene without the wheels.

 

[henchman21]

Schenn took years to be a center as well , like last year was his 1st

On his third team... and in a forceful situation where a team didn't have better options... then that team brought in two top 9 centers the summer following. Not exactly glowing there.

 

[Pokecheque]

“The thing is, we’re not concerned because it’s going to come,” Bourque said. “He’s just working very hard every game and at every practice. Sometimes, you just need a little confidence, but I think he’s playing really well.”

 

[henchman21]

I mean... compared to Bourque, Jost is McDavid.

 

[Avs44]

I mean... compared to Bourque, Jost is McDavid.

Exactly. Which is why Bourque thinks everything is going well

 

[CobraAcesS]

haha I had the same f***ing thought after reading that. So Borq is our new Nate Guenin..

All we need now is a story about Borq yelling at a reporter for stepping on the logo.