Tyson Barrie Discussion

nuck

Schrodingers Cat
Aug 18, 2005
11,402
2,476
Pretty much every team in the league wants one. How about providing a list of said player. I think you will find it very few and far between. Might be half a dozen at most in the NHL fitting that description.

In order to get that player if you don't ever draft them you probably need to trade for them before they break out. There is always a risk of getting a guy who never makes a top 4 so you need to take a volume approach. Not exact examples of the guy described, but Muzzin was a 5th round pick who didn't make the NHL to stay until he was 22. Petry was 23 and neither was an untouchable stud their first couple of years. Neither player broke out for the team that drafted them. You could argue that Valiev and Nielsen were supposed to maybe be that guy, but not Duszal and Hollowell, even absolute best case. I don't know who is hiding a right shot Muzzin in the minors but that's more of what they need.
 

Mike1

Registered User
Jul 29, 2002
3,676
81
Mississauga,Ontario
Visit site
You bring in a defencemen who gets power-play points but don't play him on the power-play. Why the surprise then that he doesn't get any points?

If you know your coach only plays one d-man on the power-play, how does it make any sense to bring in another one? I don't know anything guys but sometimes it seems like we have a Coach/GM who are doing their own thing instead of working together to build the team.
 

FlareKnight

Registered User
Jun 26, 2006
19,822
1,707
Alberta
You bring in a defencemen who gets power-play points but don't play him on the power-play. Why the surprise then that he doesn't get any points?

If you know your coach only plays one d-man on the power-play, how does it make any sense to bring in another one? I don't know anything guys but sometimes it seems like we have a Coach/GM who are doing their own thing instead of working together to build the team.
There are 2 powerplay units and for whatever bizarre reason they both get about the same amount of time. If Barrie was playing as well as he should be, then he'd still be putting up points. Not as many compared to being on the top unit, but he'd still be getting them. The amount of PP spots for D has dwindled in the league as of late. But there are still 2 spots per team. Unless Ceci is being asked to handle the second unit there is enough opportunity for Barrie to produce.

I do think we have issues with the coach and GM being on different pages though. Babcock doesn't get the kinds of players he wants to play the game the way he wants. Dubas isn't getting the coach to play the players he got in the style that suits their abilities.

Barrie has still under-performed and that is still partly on him. Not 100% on him, but he's done a poor job.
 

Critical13

Fear is the mind-killer.
Feb 25, 2017
12,617
9,435
Sitting at a desk.
Such a garbage player. Quality trade Dubass

I mean Kerfoot has 2 less points (2 more gp) with 3 less minutes/game, no PP time, is younger, is a million cheaper, and has been really good for us. If we only end up with Kerfoot in this deal, it actually isn't awful so far. The cap space is big.

If Barrie even comes close to his past form, this actually will be a quality trade.
 

Martin Skoula

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
11,706
16,474
You bring in a defencemen who gets power-play points but don't play him on the power-play. Why the surprise then that he doesn't get any points?

If you know your coach only plays one d-man on the power-play, how does it make any sense to bring in another one? I don't know anything guys but sometimes it seems like we have a Coach/GM who are doing their own thing instead of working together to build the team.

The bigger problem is you bring in a defenseman who pushes play by skating the puck out and tell him he's only allowed to lob stretch passes from inside his own blueline.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IPS and SAMCRO44

Hustlr

Registered User
Oct 1, 2019
1,376
744
Dermott - Rielly
Muzzin - Ceci
Sandin - Holl

Lets go. Also lets us run a 22 (I think) man roster.
 

biotk

Registered User
Jan 3, 2017
7,091
5,520
Buffalo
Barrie now has 1 point in his last 15 games. The last time he went a stretch of 15 games with only 1 points was his first 15 games in the league (which occurred over 2 seasons). From that time until now his least productive 15 game stretch was in the fall of 2016 when he had a stretch of 15 games where he only had 4 points. Usually he puts up around 10 points per 15 games.

He also had 4 points in his first 3 games here, I would argue before the coach had put his stamp on the team that much.

Some people can argue that he just hasn't been playing well and that that is on him. They might be right. Some people can argue that it is because he is not playing on the PP1, and there is certainly something to that.

However, at 5v5 his production is less than 40% of what it was last year and less than 50% of what it had been throughout his career. Could that just be bad luck? I doubt it. I think he is being pressured to play in a way that doesn't suit him. At 5v5 Barrie's shots/60 and iCF per 60 are essentially the same as those numbers were for him last year, so he is attempting shots and getting shots through just as often as before. However both his iSCF/60 and his iXGF/60 are less than 40% of what it was last season. His iHDCF/60 has fallen from 0.91 last season (top-3 among D in the NHL last year) to 0.00 (which is completely shocking for a D like Barrie).

Barrie is simply not taking shot attempts from scoring chance and dangerous scoring chance locations this season. But the same goes for setting up those shots for others in scoring chance and dangerous scoring chance locations. While is CF/60 when Barrie is on the ice is essentially the same as it was for him last season, SCF, xGF, and HDCF have fallen by about 20%, 30% and 40% respectively. So same amount of shot attempts when he is on the ice - they have just shifted to being significantly inferior shot attempts.
 

biotk

Registered User
Jan 3, 2017
7,091
5,520
Buffalo
Dermott - Rielly
Muzzin - Ceci
Sandin - Holl

Rielly is not comfortable on the right.

There is no evidence to support the idea that Dermott can successfully play on the top pair. Babs is only one who can allow to see if that is the case, and so far he is playing Dermott under 14 minutes a game this season.

Sandin should never play on the Leafs in a third pairing capacity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kb

Hustlr

Registered User
Oct 1, 2019
1,376
744
Rielly is not comfortable on the right.

There is no evidence to support the idea that Dermott can successfully play on the top pair. Babs is only one who can allow to see if that is the case, and so far he is playing Dermott under 14 minutes a game this season.

Sandin should never play on the Leafs in a third pairing capacity.

I know. I’m just pissed at Berries. He needs to go down to the third pairing
 

Hustlr

Registered User
Oct 1, 2019
1,376
744
And I also know we have no one who can play 20+ minutes on the right side besides him and Ceci. So he’s a lock in the top 4.. Doesn’t mean he’s not getting absolutely shelled in his usage.
 

biotk

Registered User
Jan 3, 2017
7,091
5,520
Buffalo
I know. I’m just pissed at Berries. He needs to go down to the third pairing

I understand the frustration, but I am not able to direct my ire at the player unless I am pretty certain that what has been happening is the player's fault - and I am certainly not there yet. I have watched Barrie play a decent amount over the years. I have never seen him look like he looks with the Leafs.
 

biotk

Registered User
Jan 3, 2017
7,091
5,520
Buffalo
And I also know we have no one who can play 20+ minutes on the right side besides him and Ceci. So he’s a lock in the top 4.. Doesn’t mean he’s not getting absolutely shelled in his usage.

Well we might have players who can play 20+ minutes on the right side besides Barrie and Ceci. Perhaps Dermott. Perhaps Holl. Perhaps Sandin. I don't have high hopes at the moment, but it wouldn't complete shock me if one of the three could if given the opportunity. We are unlikely to ever know as long as Babs is coaching.
 

Hustlr

Registered User
Oct 1, 2019
1,376
744
I understand the frustration, but I am not able to direct my ire at the player unless I am pretty certain that what has been happening is the player's fault - and I am certainly not there yet. I have watched Barrie play a decent amount over the years. I have never seen him look like he looks with the Leafs.

All I’ve seen of him is with the Leafs. The Avs games I’ve seen he wasn’t noticeable as I wasn’t looking for him. If he’s not a fit with the system move him. 2.75, there has to be some takers.
 

biotk

Registered User
Jan 3, 2017
7,091
5,520
Buffalo
All I’ve seen of him is with the Leafs. The Avs games I’ve seen he wasn’t noticeable as I wasn’t looking for him. If he’s not a fit with the system move him. 2.75, there has to be some takers.

For Barrie's own sake I would like him to be moved. There probably is not another team in the NHL where Barrie would not be thriving.

In terms of watching the Leafs' for me it is simple - I would rather the team get a new coach before it starts trading anyone. However, if Dubas and Shanahan are happy with what the coach is getting out of this lineup, I would honestly just prefer they blow it up and start a rebuild.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IPS and kb

Rogue Leader

Registered User
Oct 12, 2019
1,582
2,358
Corellia
I mean Kerfoot has 2 less points (2 more gp) with 3 less minutes/game, no PP time, is younger, is a million cheaper, and has been really good for us. If we only end up with Kerfoot in this deal, it actually isn't awful so far. The cap space is big.

If Barrie even comes close to his past form, this actually will be a quality trade.
My problem is that we didn't have to give Kadri for Kerfoot. A second or third would probably have done it. We could have traded Kadri (if that was the plan) for a real defensive D.
 

Kiwi

Registered User
Mar 5, 2016
21,042
15,981
The Naki
Man he looks brutal right now, he's also looking worse by the week if that's even possible

I do know one thing, this cannot continue
Something needs to change because doing the exact same thing with him night after night isn't solving anything

Babcock needs to change his usage or cut down his minutes, Jesus do anything to see if he can break Barrie out of this rut he's gotten himself into
 

54thecup

keep on rockin the free world!
Aug 3, 2017
573
194
Muskoka
One of the most ridiculous theories posted here is that coaching staff are holding Barrie back.

1) He plays with the best overall D Muzzin who made his name supporting Doughty's freewheeling
2) he's playing 2nd pairing QOC and often against 2nd to 4th lines, lots of opportunities to jump into the play there
3) The scouting report had him joining the rush like Rielly. Its not even close! You can make a case that Dermott, Muzzin and even Holl & Ceci are more active in the o zone
4) I have not seen a good slapshot from him in too long!

Last nite he almost took our guys head off on the pp, the shot was as bad as the one he took too far out on the the 5 on 3 a couple games ago.

I haven't given up on him yet but I think this is >90% on him to this point. Perhaps he takes longer than most to adopt but he needs to get it going!

I guess there's a chance top pp mins could get him going. 'but so far he hasn't earned it over Rielly and I'd bet we'll see more turnover with him there full-time. The #1 pp is squeezing the stick too much already, not sure a shaky Barrie is the solution.

He was deemed expendable by Colorado because of a rookie - Makar. He's the one that had something to prove to earn 7m++. So far Sakic is looking like a genius!
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad