Player Discussion Tyler Toffoli

[iceburg]

I don’t know, I have to believe that owners are going to be incredibly shy about signing UFAs this year. Flat cap yes, but they already have something like $10M each lost in gate revenue from 19/20. That will likely be recovered partially out of the players escrow but only 50%. Then they are staring at the possibility of a huge number of games without fans this coming year. If they go half the year without fans, a real possibly, that will be something like $50M lost on average per team. IIRC The players have capped their potential losses through escrow at 20% or $16Mish. Owners could be taking $30M+ hits. Even the better off teams spending to the cap have to be nervous.
For this reason I think term and cap hit for players like Tofolli could be a lot less than people are expecting.
At his age and with so much uncertainty I wouldn’t be surprised to see $4.8M x 4 or $5M x 3.

 

[geebaan]

Am I the only one worried about the fact he’s not that fast even to begin with, he had a pretty unsustainable shooting percentage, and was generally not great in LA the last few years? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills not really being excited about signing this player big money long term.

then again, we might be kinda forced into it if we trade Boeser or something. I could be convinced I’m wrong though.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

Most Canuck thing ever. When we have cap space noone wants to come here. Now that we don't have cap, everyone in knocking on our door.

 

[iceburg]

Am I the only one worried about the fact he’s not that fast even to begin with, he had a pretty unsustainable shooting percentage, and was generally not great in LA the last few years? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills not really being excited about signing this player big money long term.

then again, we might be kinda forced into it if we trade Boeser or something. I could be convinced I’m wrong though.

I think the promise is that, if he plays with Petterson, he could regain mid 20s in goals. He averaged about 18 goals for the last 4 years but LA is not a good team.
I’m always nervous though with signings based on what a player could do rather than what he has done.

 

[F A N]

Am I the only one worried about the fact he’s not that fast even to begin with, he had a pretty unsustainable shooting percentage, and was generally not great in LA the last few years? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills not really being excited about signing this player big money long term.

then again, we might be kinda forced into it if we trade Boeser or something. I could be convinced I’m wrong though.

There are certainly concerns. Toffoli is a "good skater" at best. Not a guy you want carrying the puck into the offensive zone. But we've watched Tofolli score plenty of goals against us over the years. The type of goals he scored against us were the type of goals he scored with us. Somehow the guy gets the puck with open space and scores. Kind of like how Boeser was prior to this season.

 

[Canucks1096]

To be fair, Ferland had concussion issues the previous year and without a doubt the Canucks knew far more about this than the general public. The fact that Ferland didn’t sign until he did likely shows that many (most?) other teams were worried about his health vis a vis his contract demands.

But even ignoring health concerns, and acknowledging that the pandemic and ensuing flat cap was not foreseeable, giving Ferland term was moronic given the obvious cap crunch we were going to be in this summer. Like, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that this was just a horrible decision which favoured short term gain over long term salary cap planning. Ironically of course, and not unlike lots of other similar decisions of this nature, the decision actually didn’t provide any short term gain.

Confirmed with Link: - Canucks sign F Micheal Ferland to a 4-year, $3.5M AAV Deal

62% of people liked the signing and only 10% of people didn't like the signing. It wasn't as simple as you think it was. Not saying You, but there a lot of People, they like some signing or trade. When it doesn't work out, after people start acting like experts.

 

[Diversification]

I think the promise is that, if he plays with Petterson, he could regain mid 20s in goals. He averaged about 18 goals for the last 4 years but LA is not a good team.
I’m always nervous though with signings based on what a player could do rather than what he has done.

Agreed. If they re-sign him, it will be with the hope that he'll have a JT Miller like synergy with the rest of the forward group. I'm okay to sign him if we don't sign Marky. It's one or the other, IMO.

The advantage of signing Toffoli is that he's a good insurance policy should we need to trade Boeser to fill a hole elsewhere in the lineup.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Confirmed with Link: - Canucks sign F Micheal Ferland to a 4-year, $3.5M AAV Deal

62% of people liked the signing and only 10% of people didn't like the signing. It wasn't as simple as you think it was. Not saying You, but there a lot of People, they like some signing or trade. When it doesn't work out, after people start acting like experts.

I thought it was a pretty good deal at the time. Obviously his injuries derailed that pretty quick, but I feel like he could have been an important part of this team if that didn’t occur. Really sucks how it’s played out.

 

[lawrence]

I was ok with the signing at the time because for the type of way he plays he still managed around 70 games per season, who knew he would have missed this much playing time, and he would have been a useful player against a chippy team like the Knights. obviously we can't forecast injuries and his contract is until he is 31, so it's not like he will be old by the time he's done.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

What I'm saying is we shouldn't be locking up a 30 year old goaltender to a contract that's going to cripple our cap when we have options in the system to provide above-replacement-level goaltending. Do you really believe Demko will be below replacement level as a starter next year? We aren't going to win many playoff rounds playing in our own end 80% of the time, that's our biggest issue, not trying to get a marginal upgrade in net for a non-marginal cost.

I really believe there is a solid chance he cant carry the load. Yes.

We are in cap trouble already, that is why we are having this discussion.

 

[VanJack]

If the Canucks re-signed Tofoli and then traded Boeser to the Wild for Dumba, as the rumor mill is postulating, one basic question. Would the Canucks be better or worse off?

 

[bandwagonesque]

I really believe there is a solid chance he cant carry the load. Yes.

We are in cap trouble already, that is why we are having this discussion.

I think this discussion would take place even if the team had more cap space and would find the extra space afforded by letting go of Markstrom useful rather than necessary. I also think it definitely wouldn’t be taking place if the team didn’t have a really good young goaltender.

 

[Fatass]

If the Canucks re-signed Tofoli and then traded Boeser to the Wild for Dumba, as the rumor mill is postulating, one basic question. Would the Canucks be better or worse off?

We would be worse. But why is this even a discussion? Coming out of a re(whatever the hell Benning did) a team should have lots of cap room, so they can sign a UFA or two to fill in the gaps. Here we are discussing trading our top young RW to fill a hole on D, and trading other young RFA guys (Jake and Stecher) so we can resign our other top RW - Tofu. Benning put us in serious cap hell with all his terrible signings of old guys who can’t really contribute, but suck up huge cap dollars. God! Signing Tofu, and rolling him and Boeser as our top RWs for the next four years should be a no brainer! But no, we are blessed with Benning. (Insert puke emoji)

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

If the Canucks re-signed Tofoli and then traded Boeser to the Wild for Dumba, as the rumor mill is postulating, one basic question. Would the Canucks be better or worse off?

I like Dumba as a player. But I just don't see this whole scenario working out, and I would not want to part with Boeser for him. I think Boeser showed some impressive jam in the playoffs, and he's still young and developing.

 

[GetFocht]

turns out to be a great trade if we can lock in Toffoli, he bolsters the top 6 significantly.

In regards to the Dumba for Boeser trade, its an absolute tough call to make which means its a fair value trade for both sides. On one half, having Boeser in the top 6 makes Canucks have an extremely potent top 6, however, Dumba would round out the top 4 beautifully on the right side.

Good RH defenceman on a value contract are hard to acquire

 

[Szechwan]

I can't shake the feeling that term for Toffoli is a bad idea.

Let's say he doesn't get traded to Van where he lights it up with Petey - what does he make on the open market? His production had been trending down for the past 3 years, LA was atrocious and he was mostly pissing off their fans with his effort level.

I think he's a great fit in Van and I hope he stays, but I can't help but think he's about to get paid for a 15 game sample size.

Given the flat cap, I don't see him getting more than 5m on the open market this year- so why are we paying top market value if he wants to stay so badly?

 

[F A N]

I'm not really a fan of Dumba as he's another Dman who can be prone to mistakes. At his best he's certainly an impactful Dman. His main value is his goal scoring ability and that he's a right shot RD (Hughes setting him up could be scary). However, he is coming off a major injury and subsequently a terrible season. I worry about the Phaneuf comparisons.

 

[Bankerguy]

I'm not really a fan of Dumba as he's another Dman who can be prone to mistakes. At his best he's certainly an impactful Dman. His main value is his goal scoring ability and that he's a right shot RD (Hughes setting him up could be scary). However, he is coming off a major injury and subsequently a terrible season. I worry about the Phaneuf comparisons.

agreed, the injury combined with poor season is a red flag.. i wouldnt want to give more than Demko + small add

 

[tantalum]

I'm not really a fan of Dumba as he's another Dman who can be prone to mistakes. At his best he's certainly an impactful Dman. His main value is his goal scoring ability and that he's a right shot RD (Hughes setting him up could be scary). However, he is coming off a major injury and subsequently a terrible season. I worry about the Phaneuf comparisons.

The first thing that comes to mind every time I see Phaneuf mentioned:

 

[Diversification]

We would be worse. But why is this even a discussion? Coming out of a re(whatever the hell Benning did) a team should have lots of cap room, so they can sign a UFA or two to fill in the gaps. Here we are discussing trading our top young RW to fill a hole on D, and trading other young RFA guys (Jake and Stecher) so we can resign our other top RW - Tofu. Benning put us in serious cap hell with all his terrible signings of old guys who can’t really contribute, but suck up huge cap dollars. God! Signing Tofu, and rolling him and Boeser as our top RWs for the next four years should be a no brainer! But no, we are blessed with Benning. (Insert puke emoji)

Not a huge fan of Dumba, but it would actually be (compared with pre-trade deadline) :

Out: Marky, Boeser
In: Dumba, Toffoli
Promoted: Demko

With those moves, we have enough cap to try and sign Tanev and probably Stecher. Improved d depth, slight drop off at wing, leap of faith in net (made somewhat inevitable with the expansion draft).

 

[BCNate]

If the Canucks re-signed Tofoli and then traded Boeser to the Wild for Dumba, as the rumor mill is postulating, one basic question. Would the Canucks be better or worse off?

I'd keep Boeser and Toffoli. I think we are better with that than if we deal Boeser for Dumba.

 

[Fatass]

I'd keep Boeser and Toffoli. I think we are better with that than if we deal Boeser for Dumba.

I don’t get this love of Dumba. The guy is basically a 25 to 35 point small sized D man, who is getting six million. Personally I’d rather have Stecher for half the cap cost, and keep Boeser.

 

[BCNate]

I don’t get this love of Dumba. The guy is basically a 25 to 35 point small sized D man, who is getting six million. Personally I’d rather have Stecher for half the cap cost, and keep Boeser.

We have a few D who are NHL ready or very close in Rafferty, Rathbone, Brisebois, Joulevi and further down the line Woo. I'd love to see a few of them get a shot next year. Our top 6 is very good, don't mess with it, not for a guy like Dumba.

 

[Hit the post]

I don’t get this love of Dumba. The guy is basically a 25 to 35 point small sized D man, who is getting six million. Personally I’d rather have Stecher for half the cap cost, and keep Boeser.

We have a much older version of Dumba on a longer term contract - Myers.

Drafting guru for the win!

 

[Fatass]

We have a much older version of Dumba on a longer term contract - Myers.

Drafting guru for the win!

Benning is such a horrible GM, that I wouldn’t be shocked if he trades a great young player in Boeser for another dud D man, like Dumba. Oh, and he adds a second.