Friedman: Tyler Toffoli to hit the market

Pure Slaughter Value

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Franchise centers are rarely drafted five to 10. On the top center poll it’s so far McDavid, McKinnon, Draisaitl, Crosby, Eichel, Malkin, and Matthews. All high picks.
You rarely get a franchise D outside the top five.
Sure it happens. But to get both without a top 4 pick is incredible ‘good luck’.

NBC's favorite son Mat Barzal was drafted 15th.

He's intergenerfranchisal to the max
 
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Frankie Blueberries

Allergic to draft picks
Jan 27, 2016
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Well drafting Pettersson and Hughes are probably the biggest long term impacts on this team. Getting a franchise center and D without a top 4 pick is why I rate him as about average. I mean sure you can say it’s luck and negate those two most impactful moves but I don’t agree.

Well first off, scouting and drafting shouldn't be attributed just to a GM. If a collaborative process is his only saving grace, maybe he shouldn't be getting that much credit for it.

A lot of GMs are able to land franchise players without top 4 picks (Winnipeg), and are much better at every other aspect of being a GM. Besides, if you were to weigh all of a GM's job duties and their impact on the team's success, drafting might make up like 1/3 of it (free agent signings, trades, contract extensions, managing the cap, managing your assets, etc.). Benning has failed at the vast majority of these.
 

HockeyWooot

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If this forces the Canucks keep Virtanen, I’m glad. Not that I’m against keeping Toffoli, but I have been weary of giving him a steep deal.

Good player that’ll bring different dimensions to a young skilled teams top 6, but suspect his contract won’t age well.
 
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WetcoastOrca

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Well first off, scouting and drafting shouldn't be attributed just to a GM. If a collaborative process is his only saving grace, maybe he shouldn't be getting that much credit for it.

A lot of GMs are able to land franchise players without top 4 picks (Winnipeg), and are much better at every other aspect of being a GM. Besides, if you were to weigh all of a GM's job duties and their impact on the team's success, drafting might make up like 1/3 of it (free agent signings, trades, contract extensions, managing the cap, managing your assets, etc.). Benning has failed at the vast majority of these.
I disagree. The GM hires the scouts and sets the process so he’s the one who gets credit for the picks both good and bad. It’s like the CEO of any company who hires good people. That’s the way large organizations work.
I’m actually interested in a list of teams that acquired a franchise D and Center as good as EP and Hughes without a top 4 pick. It’s certainly not Winnipeg. There may be one out there but I can’t think of one.
Anyways I’ve derailed the thread enough and will move on.
 

Lonny Bohonos

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I disagree. The GM hires the scouts and sets the process so he’s the one who gets credit for the picks both good and bad. It’s like the CEO of any company who hires good people. That’s the way large organizations work.
I’m actually interested in a list of teams that acquired a franchise D and Center as good as EP and Hughes without a top 4 pick. It’s certainly not Winnipeg. There may be one out there but I can’t think of one.
Anyways I’ve derailed the thread enough and will move on.
Narrator: Jim is not a good CEO.
 

Frankie Blueberries

Allergic to draft picks
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I disagree. The GM hires the scouts and sets the process so he’s the one who gets credit for the picks both good and bad. It’s like the CEO of any company who hires good people. That’s the way large organizations work.
I’m actually interested in a list of teams that acquired a franchise D and Center as good as EP and Hughes without a top 4 pick. It’s certainly not Winnipeg. There may be one out there but I can’t think of one.
Anyways I’ve derailed the thread enough and will move on.


It's just weird how you rate Benning. It would be like calling a student average, who got an A in one class and failed everything else.
 

ugghhh

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In fairness you just listed off 35% of the roster that eats up 40% of the cap, which is not as bad as you sell it. You also have Ferland in there, which would have been a solid deal if healthy, hard to hang that on JB. You also have Pearson in there, who is far from dead weight on this team. Myers may make a little bit much, but we are a much better team with him on the ice. Benn is fine as a 6-7 D at 2 mill, no problem there.

All the dead weight is gone when we are ready to be legit contenders, no need to worry.

IMO -- we should be legit contenders next year, with Pettersson and Hughes on their ELC. Instead we will likely be hamstrung for the next 2 years with bad contracts.

Pearson, Myers, and Benn are more defensible than the other contracts -- but they add to our cap issues at this point.

When 35% of our roster is underperforming relative to their contracts, that's a huge problem. You could get similar (and actually better) performance from guys on minimum level deals (i.e. MacEwen and Motte).
 

RandV

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I disagree. The GM hires the scouts and sets the process so he’s the one who gets credit for the picks both good and bad. It’s like the CEO of any company who hires good people. That’s the way large organizations work.
I’m actually interested in a list of teams that acquired a franchise D and Center as good as EP and Hughes without a top 4 pick. It’s certainly not Winnipeg. There may be one out there but I can’t think of one.
Anyways I’ve derailed the thread enough and will move on.

That's not really true, unless you're one of those really long term GM's. GM's come and go with but a teams scouting staff remains in place, usually a patchwork collection of hires from prior GM's with plenty of team alumni mixed in. In Vancouver's case it's becoming more and more Benning's group but it was years before he actually hired anyone other than John Weisbrod and his own son who plucking him out of a job working security at Nordstroms or something.

Honestly this was one of my biggest disappointments with the guy. With no preconceived notion of the guy when he was hired by Vancouver, other than knowing he made his name as head scout for Buffalo, I was expecting he'd have his own list of high quality scouts he'd head hunt and bring to Vancouver.
 

MarkusNaslund19

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It's just weird how you rate Benning. It would be like calling a student average, who got an A in one class and failed everything else.
I could argue that people who are constantly anti-benning are like people who give a grade 12 student bad marks because he wasn't a good student in grades 8 and 9.

To be honest, if you look at his body of work pre-2017 it's basically terrible.

If you look at it from 2017-now, it's not perfect but it stacks up really well against most other GMs.
 

DrSteveBrule

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I’d love for him to come to San Jose. His wife is from Monterey, where I’m from (an hour south of SJ), and his in-laws are still here. His mother-in-law happens to be one of my mom’s best friends of 25 years, and while all indications have been that he wants to stay in Vancouver and not be on the move again, it would be pretty cool for him and his wife to be close to the fam. He was the player I hated to love when he was a King, even before he married someone I know.

No idea if the Sharks have interest, but I think they should. He’d fit in well with our top six and I’d love to see him with Cooch or Hertl.
 
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funky

Time for the future. More Byfield and Clarke
Mar 9, 2002
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As a Kings fan I home he somehow re-signs in Vancouver. The team and Tyler meshed well. They gave up good assets to get him and he seemed to like playing there. Plus I would get to watch him play I eve in a while when the Kings and Canucks go head to head.
 
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Boondock

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He traded for a UFA and we got to the 2nd (sort of 3rd) round of the playoffs and got this young core some experience that will make them hungry for more.
Not every team that trades for a UFA wins the cup or re-signs the player. He's not even close to the worst GM in the league. In fact, since 2017 I would say he's conservatively been a top half of the league GM.
Im a huge Canuck fan that has defended many Canucks moves over the years. I am having a hard time with your take on Benning. I would like to see what you consider to be his good moves remembering context, and not cherry picking moves - for instance trading Gudbranson for Pearson was a Jim win, but you don't have to trade EG if you don't trade a 1st round C prospect (McCann) and a high 2nd for him and then turn around and sign him to a bad contract. So as I see it the Gudbranson saga was a net lose for the Canucks.
 
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WetcoastOrca

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Im a huge Canuck fan that has defended many Canucks moves over the years. I am having a hard time with your take on Benning. I would like to see what you consider to be his good moves remembering context, and not cherry picking moves - for instance trading Gudbranson for Pearson was a Jim win, but you don't have to trade EG if you don't trade a 1st round C prospect (McCann) and a high 2nd for him and then turn around and sign him to a bad contract. So as I see it the Gudbranson saga was a net lose for the Canucks.
Trading a second, Gubrandson and McCann for Pearson is still a good trade, imo. Two meh assets and a second round pick for a top 6 guy on a good contract.
I won't defend the Toffoli trade if he walks even though I don't think Madden is anything special. We shouldn't have been making trades like this for a rental as we aren't close to a top contender.
 

Boondock

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Trading a second, Gubrandson and McCann for Pearson is still a good trade, imo. Two meh assets and a second round pick for a top 6 guy on a good contract.
I won't defend the Toffoli trade if he walks even though I don't think Madden is anything special. We shouldn't have been making trades like this for a rental as we aren't close to a top contender.
If that's your take on Pearson, sure - it is not mine. He is a passenger on a 2nd line but a solid 3rd line winger. I would call him a middle 6 winger because Pearson does not belong on anyone's top line. His advanced stats are below average and he doesn't add anything as far as being a specialist on the PP or PK. I don't dislike Pearson but I would have rather kept the prospect and pick (I understand how easy drafting is with hindsight - however the following players were drafted in 2nd round after what would have been the Canucks pick 33rd- Peeke, Kyrou, DeBrincat, Girard, Hart, Clague, Hronek), as well as the financial flexibility and contract control that comes from younger players. This was poor pro-scouting to begin with.
 

WetcoastOrca

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Jun 3, 2011
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If that's your take on Pearson, sure - it is not mine. He is a passenger on a 2nd line but a solid 3rd line winger. I would call him a middle 6 winger because Pearson does not belong on anyone's top line. His advanced stats are below average and he doesn't add anything as far as being a specialist on the PP or PK. I don't dislike Pearson but I would have rather kept the prospect and pick (I understand how easy drafting is with hindsight - however the following players were drafted in 2nd round after what would have been the Canucks pick 33rd- Peeke, Kyrou, DeBrincat, Girard, Hart, Clague, Hronek), as well as the financial flexibility and contract control that comes from younger players. This was poor pro-scouting to begin with.
Agree to disagree. Pearson for a second is a trade I'd do again.
 

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