Player Discussion Tyler Motte Appreciation

VanJack

Registered User
Jul 11, 2014
21,043
14,072
Wrong on that comparison again - you take a lousy 4th liner and try to conflate the argument. I already called you out on that earlier.

We are talking Tyler Motte here, not Tim Schaller.
Not sure why Brendan Gaunce keeps coming up in the fourth line conversation. Canucks tried to make a winger out of him because he just didn't skate well enough to be a center. Besides, taxi squad players MacEwen and Bailey are light years ahead of Gaunce as potential fourth liners.

I also noticed in the last game that Green briefly elevated Motte in the lineup. When the lines went into a blender he was actually playing with Horvat and Pettersson briefly. Always thought there might be some latent offensive talent with Motte. There's a chance he might actually graduate from fourth line duty as his career unfolds.
 
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Burke's Evil Spirit

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Oct 29, 2002
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Tim Schaller was good with Boston then fell off here. The margin is so small with fourth line players that any drop off in performance makes them non-NHLers. A good reason to never give them to a fourth line player.

I agree with your overall point but let's be clear: Tim Schaller was *never* good with Boston aside from a 10 game stretch in February 2018 where he got "hot" and scored 5 goals.
 

Billy Kvcmu

Registered User
Dec 5, 2014
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West Vancouver
Not sure why Brendan Gaunce keeps coming up in the fourth line conversation. Canucks tried to make a winger out of him because he just didn't skate well enough to be a center. Besides, taxi squad players MacEwen and Bailey are light years ahead of Gaunce as potential fourth liners.

I also noticed in the last game that Green briefly elevated Motte in the lineup. When the lines went into a blender he was actually playing with Horvat and Pettersson briefly. Always thought there might be some latent offensive talent with Motte. There's a chance he might actually graduate from fourth line duty as his career unfolds.
Brendan Gaunce will get smoked by Motte in a foot race
 

Burke's Evil Spirit

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Oct 29, 2002
21,372
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The fact that Motte is an effective 4th liner at $900K supports MS's argument that overpaying for Roussel, Schaller, Beagle types is counterproductive. I'm really not seeing the conflict here.

The Canucks could easily have rolled a 4th line consisting of three of Motte, Gaudette, Bailey, and MacEwen for the past season, and used the savings to sign a high-end winger like Gustav Nyquist, who they were in for and would have signed had they had a *little* more cap flexibility.
 

CantStoptheBrock

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Jun 26, 2020
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Here's the issues with the above posited fourth line. You're by necessity giving harder minutes to Bo Horvat and Elias Pettersson by having Gaudette centre your fourth line over Beagle. You also will now need to require an additional top-9 or top-6 player to assume PK duties over Beagle, exposing them to injury and fatigue (see J.T. Miller almost injuring himself on PK duty). Furthermore, you lose all the intangibles that Jay Beagle, a Stanley Cup champion, provides. Some of those became more tangible last night, when I saw Beagle relaying Green's messages down the bench, and continually motivating the guys. It's like having an additional assistant coach, who is also a player, and thus even more effective. Roussel is another example of a player who "drags his team into the fight" even if they aren't feeling it.

It's funny, Toronto is now screaming after intangibles and culture carriers after denigrating them for so long within the Dubas cult. You'd think the lesson would sink in here when we're watching them have an effect right before our eyes.

Do you think Tyler Motte scoring a few goals as a $900k scrap heap rescue does anything at all do disprove the notion that overpaying for 4th liners is a bad idea? Or does it prove the exact opposite point?
Nobody is arguing that you should overpay for 4th liners? They're arguing that 1) your hyperbolic statement that a team's fourth line is very unimportant is just pure wrong 2) nobody trusts your evaluation of fourth line players if you still maintain that Brendan Gaunce can sniff Tyler Motte's jock strap.

The Blues had Alex Steen making 6 million on their fourth line when they won the Cup last year. Is their roster construction a disaster in your eyes?
 
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Catamarca Livin

Registered User
Jul 29, 2010
4,908
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With all this talk of 4th line players, thought I would point out that Motte had 3rd line minutes not fourth. In one game it was 1st line minutes. This team has obviously overpaid for players but Motte is not one of them. He is kind of like Brandon Tanev lite.
 

mratch19

Registered User
Jul 27, 2010
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Vancouver
Depth forwards contributing is such a crucial aspect of playoff success. I have been pushing Motte on my siblings for the last two seasons because I see a guy with a non stop motor, who is responsible defensively, hits and can score important goals with his underrated skills. If you watch his reaction to his empty netter last night, you'll see a guy who knows its a long road ahead. These are the players you need to win playoff series. For comparison, watch Louie's attempt at the empty net.. With horvat open he throws a half ass attempt about the four feet wide. Motte absolutely buried his shot, with conviction.

Shout out to beagle last night too, he played very well! It was an excellent team effort last night and a beautiful showcase of the importance that 'Team Defense' and depth play in winning playoff series.

Lastly, I think it's unfair to compare Gaunce with Motte. I really liked Gaunce, but he didn't have the foot speed or quick first three steps that his style of game would require to adapt successfully into the NHL, imo.

Anyways, great series and I'm really happy for Motte.
 
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Bojack Horvatman

IAMGROOT
Jun 15, 2016
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I like Motte. He is a good PKer, and is useful if you keep his ES minutes down. I would have no problem paying him 1-1.5m if their wasn't so much money already spent on 4th liners.

Yes, you shouldn't spend a lot of money on 4th liners. If you do don't give them term. Our star players are on ELCs and it will be tough to bring back the same team next year. Yet alone, improve it.
 
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vancityluongo

curse of the strombino
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Jul 8, 2006
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The fact that Motte is an effective 4th liner at $900K supports MS's argument that overpaying for Roussel, Schaller, Beagle types is counterproductive. I'm really not seeing the conflict here.

The Canucks could easily have rolled a 4th line consisting of three of Motte, Gaudette, Bailey, and MacEwen for the past season, and used the savings to sign a high-end winger like Gustav Nyquist, who they were in for and would have signed had they had a *little* more cap flexibility.

Exactly.

Motte is solid, and playing really well right now. These last two games alone were better than anything Gaunce ever did, by far.

That said, expecting him to put up this sort of performance with any chance of repeatability is a) insane and b) unfair. Just as it would be insane to sign Gaunce to term based on a stretch of a couple strong games.

The moment a Motte level player demands Roussel or Schaller or Beagle level money, you let them walk and find the next high motor, hard working fourth liner.

Tyler Motte is currently doing what Jim Benning thought Micheal Ferland would do, based on pretty much the exact same sample size.
 
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larueskee

Player/Member USA Hockey or affilates 1972-2006
Mar 15, 2017
1,355
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Seattle, WA
Some team's management thought Craig Conroy was a decent 4th line/penalty killer and then another team used him differently. At 30 years of age Conroy would score 250 or so pints over his next 4 seasons.
 

DudeWhereIsMakar

Bergevin sent me an offer sheet
Apr 25, 2014
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Always knew Motte was good. I think he could play top-six minutes, plays hard and can drive a line if he needs to or can complement any player he's with. Did the same with Kyle Connor.
 

Phenomenon13

Registered User
Oct 10, 2011
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Here's the issues with the above posited fourth line. You're by necessity giving harder minutes to Bo Horvat and Elias Pettersson by having Gaudette centre your fourth line over Beagle. You also will now need to require an additional top-9 or top-6 player to assume PK duties over Beagle, exposing them to injury and fatigue (see J.T. Miller almost injuring himself on PK duty). Furthermore, you lose all the intangibles that Jay Beagle, a Stanley Cup champion, provides. Some of those became more tangible last night, when I saw Beagle relaying Green's messages down the bench, and continually motivating the guys. It's like having an additional assistant coach, who is also a player, and thus even more effective. Roussel is another example of a player who "drags his team into the fight" even if they aren't feeling it.

It's funny, Toronto is now screaming after intangibles and culture carriers after denigrating them for so long within the Dubas cult. You'd think the lesson would sink in here when we're watching them have an effect right before our eyes.


Nobody is arguing that you should overpay for 4th liners? They're arguing that 1) your hyperbolic statement that a team's fourth line is very unimportant is just pure wrong 2) nobody trusts your evaluation of fourth line players if you still maintain that Brendan Gaunce can sniff Tyler Motte's jock strap.

The Blues had Alex Steen making 6 million on their fourth line when they won the Cup last year. Is their roster construction a disaster in your eyes?

The fourth line is the least important part of any NHL team and the salary that they're paid should reflect that. Any team icing a fourth liner worth 6 million ex. Steen is a huge problem.

NHL teams typically play power on power. A typical fourth liner plays ten minutes or less. I additoon, Fourth lines play against other fourth lines. Having a good fourth line will not significantly affect the amount or the quality of minutes high end players like Pettersson get.

Why does Pettersson or Horvat have to take the harder minutes? Why can't Sutter be the guy? Isn't he touted for his two way play?
Eriksson is another penalty killer on this team. Unfortunately he is washed up now but still effective. Motte is the third penalty killer. We just need one more...

The constant comparable people bring up is Nic Dowd. The replacement for Beagle for the capitals. Nic Dowd left our team and fills the same role for a fraction of the cost. He plays big PK minutes and the Capitals are one of the most successful PK teams this year. Dowd is quite effective.

If NHL players need a motivational speaker like Beagle to motivate them to play well in the playoffs and win the Cup. They should not be on the Canucks. If we need another assistant coach I'm certain we can hire one with the differences in salary between beagle and a cheaper replacement.
 
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bossram

Registered User
Sep 25, 2013
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Here's the issues with the above posited fourth line. You're by necessity giving harder minutes to Bo Horvat and Elias Pettersson by having Gaudette centre your fourth line over Beagle. You also will now need to require an additional top-9 or top-6 player to assume PK duties over Beagle, exposing them to injury and fatigue (see J.T. Miller almost injuring himself on PK duty). Furthermore, you lose all the intangibles that Jay Beagle, a Stanley Cup champion, provides. Some of those became more tangible last night, when I saw Beagle relaying Green's messages down the bench, and continually motivating the guys. It's like having an additional assistant coach, who is also a player, and thus even more effective. Roussel is another example of a player who "drags his team into the fight" even if they aren't feeling it.

It's funny, Toronto is now screaming after intangibles and culture carriers after denigrating them for so long within the Dubas cult. You'd think the lesson would sink in here when we're watching them have an effect right before our eyes.

The Blues had Alex Steen making 6 million on their fourth line when they won the Cup last year. Is their roster construction a disaster in your eyes?

Well, it's interesting that the Canucks' most successful games against the ROR line came when they decided to play Horvat primarily against him. They rotated Miller, Pearson, and Eriksson as his wingers. For the season, Horvat has been the primary matchup centre by a large degree. Those are clearly the players Green feels can best handle tough competition. Beagle doesn't actually play tough comps. He takes D-zone draws and PKs. Sure he has some intangibles, but are they worth 2 million more than some other similarly talented, RH faceoff guy? We have Sutter for this role too.

Motte kinda proves that you can find serviceable depth for extremely cheap. Aside from game 6, Roussel really was a non-factor (and I'm being very generous, frankly he wasn't good) in the rest of the series.

And yes, I'm sure most Blues fans would agree having a $6 million Alex Steen on 4th line isn't ideal roster construction. He's still on the books next year and he's going to severely hamper the Blues' ability to keep Pietrangelo.
 

crazychimp

Registered User
Jun 24, 2014
2,779
695
Vancouver


I really liked what Motte showed in these playoffs.

I know he plays wing, but would Green ever put him at C? I think if he can work on his faces offs he can be our Pahlsson, Beagle & Malhotra type of player.

The younger guys for sure need to get better in this department, Pettersson can’t always rely on Miller, Beagle is getting old and Gaudette is below 50% this season with 373 faceoffs.
 
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dwarf

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Feb 13, 2007
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I just want to give a quick shout out to Motte as well. I was very impressed with his short handed play, and was our best forward during this playoff.
 

iceburg

Don't ask why
Aug 31, 2003
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Love everything about Motte. He is the kind of player that is perfect as a bottom six, cost-efficient, player who also brings a needed skill set.
Please don’t blow it up by offering him more $$$ than appropriate. He should be getting nowhere near what Beagle and Roussel get even though he can strongly argue he’s the more valuable player. I would even offer term if the price is good.
 
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Fatass

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
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Love everything about Motte. He is the kind of player that is perfect as a bottom six, cost-efficient, player who also brings a needed skill set.
Please don’t blow it up by offering him more $$$ than appropriate. He should be getting nowhere near what Beagle and Roussel get even though he can strongly argue he’s the more valuable player. I would even offer term if the price is good.
Would a three year deal at 1.5 per (total of 4.5 million) be fair? Maybe sign Leivo to the same deal? Then trade Jake? I’d rather have Motte and Leivo for 3 mil per on the cap than Jake fir that amount.
 

iceburg

Don't ask why
Aug 31, 2003
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Would a three year deal at 1.5 per (total of 4.5 million) be fair? Maybe sign Leivo to the same deal? Then trade Jake? I’d rather have Motte and Leivo for 3 mil per on the cap than Jake fir that amount.
I think 3x$1.5M is about right. Leivo at the same would also be good. Now if they could get a younger centre who is also tough on the forecheck at the same price, that would be a great, economical 4th line.
 

iceburg

Don't ask why
Aug 31, 2003
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I like the player for what he is but I'm not so sure about giving a 4th liner any kind of term (unless he plays center).
If you're going to be spending roughly at least $1M on any roster position, locking in a guy for a few years at $1.5M, especially if he can fill a role (PK) is a no brainer IMO.
 

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