Player Discussion: Tyler Johnson

NatoGhost

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Jun 27, 2013
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Glad TJ didn't get hurt in his fight, but he looks invisible out there. Not sure if it is his age on the smaller frame, him never coming back from his wrist injury or what, but he's just not the player he used to be.
I'd rather see Mitchell Stevens or even Verhaeghe in for him at this point...The rest of our forwards have earned (or are earning) their spots every night. TJ not so much. After his horrible game 1 vs Boston, he did seem to play with more heart in game 2, but is still ineffective. Maybe it would light a fire under his ass to sit him for a game or two, and depending on how they do in his spot, maybe longer.
 

AndreRoy

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Jan 3, 2018
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Glad TJ didn't get hurt in his fight, but he looks invisible out there. Not sure if it is his age on the smaller frame, him never coming back from his wrist injury or what, but he's just not the player he used to be.
I'd rather see Mitchell Stevens or even Verhaeghe in for him at this point...The rest of our forwards have earned (or are earning) their spots every night. TJ not so much. After his horrible game 1 vs Boston, he did seem to play with more heart in game 2, but is still ineffective. Maybe it would light a fire under his ass to sit him for a game or two, and depending on how they do in his spot, maybe longer.

He’s been a bit disappointing offensively but he’s still given us more than Verhaeghe or Stephens and his line has done a decent job of shutting down Boston’s top line at even strength. He’s at just under 0.5 ppg in the playoffs - not the level we’ve come to expect from him but still nothing to sneeze at - and let’s not forget his heroics against Boston in the seeding round. And given how invisible Cirelli has been all postseason I’m not sure how you can say that Johnson is the one forward who hasn’t earned his ice time.
 

HoseEmDown

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He’s been a bit disappointing offensively but he’s still given us more than Verhaeghe or Stephens and his line has done a decent job of shutting down Boston’s top line at even strength. He’s at just under 0.5 ppg in the playoffs - not the level we’ve come to expect from him but still nothing to sneeze at - and let’s not forget his heroics against Boston in the seeding round. And given how invisible Cirelli has been all postseason I’m not sure how you can say that Johnson is the one forward who hasn’t earned his ice time.

I don't really consider the play in games as playoff games, the playoffs to me started with Columbus. So in those 8 games Johnson has 1g 1a 2p, Stephens and Verheaghe have played just 6 games and have 0g 1a 1p. Johnson is playing 16 minutes a night, Stephens is at 12 and Verheaghe 8. Verheaghe is scoring at a higher point per 60 average. Stephens and Verheaghe are also playing in a non scoring role asked to be physical grinders which is not really eithers game while Johnson is in a scoring role. Johnson hasn't been bad he just hasn't been good either. Would i want Stephens or Verheaghe in over him absolutely not either but that's because of his history which I have hope he can repeat. It's been 4 years though since he was that top tier playoff performer so maybe I shouldn't be expecting much from him.
 

AndreRoy

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I don't really consider the play in games as playoff games, the playoffs to me started with Columbus. So in those 8 games Johnson has 1g 1a 2p, Stephens and Verheaghe have played just 6 games and have 0g 1a 1p. Johnson is playing 16 minutes a night, Stephens is at 12 and Verheaghe 8. Verheaghe is scoring at a higher point per 60 average. Stephens and Verheaghe are also playing in a non scoring role asked to be physical grinders which is not really eithers game while Johnson is in a scoring role. Johnson hasn't been bad he just hasn't been good either. Would i want Stephens or Verheaghe in over him absolutely not either but that's because of his history which I have hope he can repeat. It's been 4 years though since he was that top tier playoff performer so maybe I shouldn't be expecting much from him.

Verhaeghe may have a higher PP60 but he also hasn’t been playing against these teams’ top lines to the extent that Johnson has; besides as we know scoring doesn’t scale linearly with ice time (though over a short time frame it may come closer to doing so.) And Johnson being tied for the team lead in points in that seeding round was pretty crucial considering otherwise we might have had to face the likes of the Islanders or Flyers by this point - neither of which we’ve looked like we’re ready to beat (though last night was a step in the right direction.)

On the whole though I think we agree: Johnson’s only been OK since the seeding round (not standing out as either bad or great; he just hasn’t been a major factor either way), we’d like to see more from him, and Verhaeghe/Stephens haven’t done anything to show that they should start over him (I would like to see Stephens in the lineup if for no other reason than his ability to win faceoffs, but I can’t justify putting him in over Johnson or even Cirelli. Like you I’d rather keep those guys in and hope their offensive slump breaks at some point - I’ve got more confidence in that happening than in Stephens suddenly learning how to score.)

Finally regarding Johnson’s playoff history I agree that he’s not the same player anymore (especially separated from Palat the way he has been), but I do think he can still show us that in streaks. He did it during the seeding round and if our playoff run continues I wouldn’t be surprised to see him get hot again. He’s not going to be a top two playoff goal scorer for us again but he’s still a valuable part of our scoring depth, and especially with Stamkos out yet again we’re going to need all the help in that regard that we can get.
 
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DFC

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The line just has zero chemistry. It has effectively become our 3rd line.
 

Sky04

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The line just has zero chemistry. It has effectively become our 3rd line.

3/4 lines going is more than most teams can hope for, that line going against Marchand's won't make them look any better either, you just hope they can hold out defensively. The Gourde and Point lines are going right now so can't really see us breaking them up, Stamkos out gives us less options for depth, you can mix and match between Cirelli's and Paquette's line but I doubt it produces much.
 

LightningStrikes

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Nov 24, 2009
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3/4 lines going is more than most teams can hope for, that line going against Marchand's won't make them look any better either, you just hope they can hold out defensively. The Gourde and Point lines are going right now so can't really see us breaking them up, Stamkos out gives us less options for depth, you can mix and match between Cirelli's and Paquette's line but I doubt it produces much.
Stamkos on our 2nd and de facto 3rd line would force Boston to shift their attention, creating more possibilities and chances for the 1st and 3rd though. Even if he’s not 100% he’s still Steven Stamkos, 60 goal scorer and PPG player on paper - unlike Killer, Tony and TyJo.
 

AndreRoy

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Stamkos on our 2nd and de facto 3rd line would force Boston to shift their attention, creating more possibilities and chances for the 1st and 3rd though. Even if he’s not 100% he’s still Steven Stamkos, 60 goal scorer and PPG player on paper - unlike Killer, Tony and TyJo.

He’s definitely a greater offensive threat than those guys, but if he was playing Cooper would probably have him on the Point-Kucherov line anyway.

IMO a lot of the struggles of our second line at least this series could be chalked up to the difficulty of playing against Boston’s top line. Tony, TJ, and Killer are good players but they aren’t going to do what Point did and not only shut down that top Boston line but score a lot of goals in the process. If they can continue to at least slow down that line at even strength then I can accept them not putting a lot of points on the board themselves (so long as our first and third lines continue to do so.)

What concerns me more is that Cirelli and Johnson also struggled to score against Columbus. And yeah, they were a difficult team for all of our guys to score on. But two series in a row with little offense out of either of them is a bit disconcerting. And in Cirelli’s case he didn’t do much in the seeding round either. It’s a long playoffs and guys are going to go through cold spells so I’m not particularly worried yet, but if we’re going to go anywhere this postseason we’re going to need them to start finding the net again at some point.
 

aessi

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The Perfection line has around +6 SAT differential on even strength, they are also the only line with a positive goal differential so if we can't win games the blame should be on other players. If our line can play an average game versus the best line in hockey we should be happy and that should also free the other lines to produce a lot more.

Our first line has even strength 3.38 xGF/60 and actual 3.29GF/60. The Gourde line is also rocking 2.59 xGF/60 and actual 3.12 GF/60 on even strength. Do people want to sacrifice the offense of these lines? I'm sure the Cirelli line would also be able to produce more with easier matchups to make them look better.

E: Looking at their stats these playoffs the Perfection line has 2.57 GF/60 and 2.63 xGF/60. I think Hurricanes tried to match up with their first line and they lost. What's surprising seems like they have gotten a bit lucky vs. us since they have xGA/60 2.93 while we have not been able to produce versus that line at all. Their xGF/60 (2.16) is also a bit lower than actual GF/60 (2.65).
 
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AndreRoy

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The Perfection line has around +6 SAT differential on even strength, they are also the only line with a positive goal differential so if we can't win games the blame should be on other players. If our line can play an average game versus the best line in hockey we should be happy and that should also free the other lines to produce a lot more.

Our first line has even strength 3.38 xGF/60 and actual 3.29GF/60. The Gourde line is also rocking 2.59 xGF/60 and actual 3.12 GF/60 on even strength. Do people want to sacrifice the offense of these lines? I'm sure the Cirelli line would also be able to produce more with easier matchups to make them look better.

E: Looking at their stats these playoffs the Perfection line has 2.57 GF/60 and 2.63 xGF/60. I think Hurricanes tried to match up with their first line and they lost. What's surprising seems like they have gotten a bit lucky vs. us since they have xGA/60 2.93 while we have not been able to produce versus that line at all. Their xGF/60 (2.16) is also a bit lower than actual GF/60 (2.65).

I think we’re saying the same thing here: Cirelli/TJ/Killorn are taking the tough matchup and freeing up our other lines to score. Which is why the criticism of Johnson is going a bit overboard when people are saying that he should be benched in favor of Verhaeghe or Stephens.
 
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Hockeyman1962

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I have watched every game of the lightning since the return of hockey. I don't understand why they are under using Tyler Johnson. Last nights game he wins 77% of his face offs. I believe he should of been used instead of Cireli on the point and Palat line last night after Kuch got hurt. His playing minutes are way down and he goes a long time between shifts. It's not like this guy got bad over night. They are going to need him if they are going to win the cup who is making these coaching decisions is it Cooper or his assistants. He is a play maker and him on line with Killorn and Cireli is not a good fit at all. Please I would like to know peoples opinion on this topic I don't need the bashing on this subject.
 

Sky04

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I have watched every game of the lightning since the return of hockey. I don't understand why they are under using Tyler Johnson. Last nights game he wins 77% of his face offs. I believe he should of been used instead of Cireli on the point and Palat line last night after Kuch got hurt. His playing minutes are way down and he goes a long time between shifts. It's not like this guy got bad over night. They are going to need him if they are going to win the cup who is making these coaching decisions is it Cooper or his assistants. He is a play maker and him on line with Killorn and Cireli is not a good fit at all. Please I would like to know peoples opinion on this topic I don't need the bashing on this subject.

He should've been benched in the third actually.
 

Five Alarm Fire

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Him and Cirelli both look much slower than usual. They also live together. That could either fuel the covid rumors, or bring into question their conditioning during the pause. Johnson really hasn't looked good all season though.
 

HoseEmDown

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If Stamkos returns and 11/7 is retained, I can only presume Johnson is the odd man out. And it wouldn't be undeserved, either.

They're not sitting Johnson in the press box lets be real here. Paquette or Maroon would be the odd man out. If it's when Stamkos returns it should be Paquette as Stamkos is good on the draw and has played some PK this year.

Johnson's issue is that he's a bit poor defensively, in a tight game against a top team like Boston you can't have any lapses in your own end. But he's been ok at the other end, not as dangerous as in the past but we are playing more a cycle game then the run and gun which made him great. He's not big and strong enough, nor has the desire like Gourde to really play that style that well. It's why he looks a bit off but when the game opens up a little you see the glimpses of his skill. Against a Philadelphia he would be better but if it's the Islanders I think it'll be more of the same next round. Still not enough to get him scratched though.
 
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Volodya Krutov

Lost Cosmonaut
Jan 18, 2012
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The guy's been a complete ghost during these series. The most unnoticeable Tampa player. I didn't see his peripherals but they must stand out in a bad way IMO.
 

YayHockeysBack

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They're not sitting Johnson in the press box lets be real here. Paquette or Maroon would be the odd man out. If it's when Stamkos returns it should be Paquette as Stamkos is good on the draw and has played some PK this year.

Johnson's issue is that he's a bit poor defensively, in a tight game against a top team like Boston you can't have any lapses in your own end. But he's been ok at the other end, not as dangerous as in the past but we are playing more a cycle game then the run and gun which made him great. He's not big and strong enough, nor has the desire like Gourde to really play that style that well. It's why he looks a bit off but when the game opens up a little you see the glimpses of his skill. Against a Philadelphia he would be better but if it's the Islanders I think it'll be more of the same next round. Still not enough to get him scratched though.

Normally I would agree with you about Johnson. But in these playoffs he's had other deficiencies--puck handling, for one. He can't seem to collect a pass cleanly, and is easily dispossessed when it's on his stick. He's a smaller guy so you don't expect him to win most puck battles, but he's winning, like, NONE of them. I've been a fan of his for years (my favorite players: St. Louis, TJ, Braden Point, see a pattern?) but he's been conspicuously ineffective in these playoffs. Maybe Stephens isn't the answer, but if I'm Cooper I'm trying to find someone else who's responsible defensively (and might even win some puck battles) + won't destroy every rush he's on with puck mismanagement.
 

DFC

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If Stamkos returns and 11/7 is retained, I can only presume Johnson is the odd man out. And it wouldn't be undeserved, either.
That's ridiculous. Whether you like Johnson or not, he's a middle of the pack player, and they dont get sat for 4th line guys.
 

Volodya Krutov

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Jan 18, 2012
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Yeah despite his lack of effectiveness, you just don't get him out off the team like that. He's a middle 6 veteran player, quitting on him would send a bad message to the locker room.
 

DrMartinVanNostrand

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That's ridiculous. Whether you like Johnson or not, he's a middle of the pack player, and they dont get sat for 4th line guys.

It's not me necessarily wanting to campaign for get him benched. It's the idea of "first line works, third line works, Maroon and Paquette are working within their roles...second line isn't working, so who's the most vulnerable player there?". And out of Johnson, Cirelli, and Killorn, which player is that?

For all I know, if Stammer returns, we go back to 12/6 and just do things that way instead, and I have no problem with that. And who knows if Stammer will return anyway. And if he does, maybe Johnson will be in something of a groove come that point in time and be irreplaceable. Plenty of things could happen between now and a hypothetical then, but I can only account the things that have actually happened up to this point.
 

DFC

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It's not me necessarily wanting to campaign for get him benched. It's the idea of "first line works, third line works, Maroon and Paquette are working within their roles...second line isn't working, so who's the most vulnerable player there?". And out of Johnson, Cirelli, and Killorn, which player is that?

Right now? Cirelli's the worst player on that line. But even so, it doesn't matter how line your fourth line is working -- somebody from that line will sit.

For all I know, if Stammer returns, we go back to 12/6 and just do things that way instead, and I have no problem with that. And who knows if Stammer will return anyway. And if he does, maybe Johnson will be in something of a groove come that point in time and be irreplaceable. Plenty of things could happen between now and a hypothetical then, but I can only account the things that have actually happened up to this point.

If Stamkos comes back, Johnson will likely be dropped to the 4th line, but he won't be dropped out of the line up in favor of Stephens or Verhaeghe. But it's hard to say how the team will be playing at that point.
 

Sky04

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Jan 8, 2009
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Right now? Cirelli's the worst player on that line. But even so, it doesn't matter how line your fourth line is working -- somebody from that line will sit.



If Stamkos comes back, Johnson will likely be dropped to the 4th line, but he won't be dropped out of the line up in favor of Stephens or Verhaeghe. But it's hard to say how the team will be playing at that point.

Hard time seeing us sit Paquette too, I think we go 12-6 if Stamkos comes back. Paquette has always played his role well in the playoffs, this year is no different.
 

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