Waived: Tyler Johnson (upd: clears)

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RealityHurts

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Feb 24, 2020
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Here is the saddest thing about this... That was actually the best team we could ice...

We tried signing some vets when Holland was around, and they have fallen off a cliff.
All our good vets retired years ago and we got nothing for them (Datsyuk, Zetterberg).
We have been drafting 25th+ or no picks for about 20 years so we were light on talent.
Our young kids (Larkin - 15th, Mantha-20th, Bertuzzi-2nd round)... these are not even high picks.
Bottom line is we suck man.
Our "Tanking" involved 3 years ago moving Nyquist and Tatar who were our best 2 players.
If we drafted an Eichel, maybe we could complain that our team sucks, and we cant draft a star around him....
IF we drafted an Eichel.

My point is this. We literally iced the best team we could. Maxed out our cap with bad contracts years ago, and still need our kids to step up. And when we try to play our kids early, they suck too.

You are suggesting we had options. That we could have actually iced a better team.
Maybe its a troll post... Or maybe you just have no idea... That IS our best team.
If you can suggest a way to improve it... we are all ears. Because the draft lottery system NO LONGER helps the worst team in the league... Simply look at where we have been drafting while finishing Bottom 5 the last few years.

The reason we don't sign Krug or Hall is this.... Whats the point... the team is too bad to justify spending the money on them to fish pucks out of our net. You sign UFA's to complement a core, not create one.
When I refer to Red wings fielding a weak team purposely, it's because they don't spend to cap or do their best in off-season and whatnot to try and better their team.

2015 was an important year for the NHL. Not just because it was when McDavid was drafted, but it also outlined through the 2014-2015 season that the current draft lottery was prone to tanking. In fact, seeing the upcoming of Connor McDavid and the possibility of him being part of their team, many teams shamefully tanked and were criticized for it.

Yet, how can Red Wings do significantly worst than teams blamed for tanking in 2015...? The draft lottery was changed to discourage tanking.

I still firmly believe that, in an ideal world with competitive integrity, teams would 100% try to better their teams in the off-season. If every team has given its best and still ends up last, then, fine, good luck in the draft lottery.

Now, teams are able to purposely save literally 14m++ in cap space to "rebuild". This approach is perfectly fine given the loops in the system, but it bears no thoughts for the fanbase and has no integrity..

It's not trolling. I mean, who did Red Wings even sign this off season? I hate to say it, but having watched disastrous results of Ottawa and Detroit last season, I was happy they didn't win the lottery.. there is karma out there.

Let's be honest, Ottawa traded Karlsson, Hoffman, Stone, etc. That's also a team that wasn't trying to win.

I'll give you an example of a team that, imo, deserved some of its early picks (except for the lucky draft lottery wins with low odds). Chicago. They compete every year, and do poorly some years, but they're not purposely fielding a terrible team without any thought to improving their team in off-season.. I'm not a blackhawks fan btw.. Last year, Sharks did their best and had a sad outcome. Sadly, they traded their 1st. They -did- try to win however.
 

BinCookin

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Let's be honest, Ottawa traded Karlsson, Hoffman, Stone, etc. That's also a team that wasn't trying to win.

I'll give you an example of a team that, imo, deserved some of its early picks (except for the lucky draft lottery wins with low odds). Chicago. They compete every year, and do poorly some years, but they're not purposely fielding a terrible team without any thought to improving their team in off-season.. I'm not a blackhawks fan btw.. Last year, Sharks did their best and had a sad outcome. Sadly, they traded their 1st. They -did- try to win however.

Chicago still has Kane and Toews... They may be getting older, but they are still good players. We are the Chicago that had Kane and Toews retire.

Ottawa traded away a lot of good players at their prime age. Their rebuild is weird, based off a cheap owner. That owner could have paid Hoffman, Stone, Karlsson... They didn't need to be bad. They chose to be bad.

I understand your point. But My point is, there is actually nothing our team can do right now.
The only thing we could have done this off season was pay 10M for Taylor Hall... who would be centred by.... Filppula? Nielsen?
Our team isn't trying to be dead last... we just are dead last, and no one we can sign will change that. Feel free to take a close look at our roster man.
 

BinCookin

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In Regards to TB, Its very possible that a "low" offer sheet on the RFA's may not be matched.
OR
They will have to move Stamkos.

These are not impossible outcomes for TB.
 

Tatar Shots

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Feb 2, 2014
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When I refer to Red wings fielding a weak team purposely, it's because they don't spend to cap or do their best in off-season and whatnot to try and better their team.

2015 was an important year for the NHL. Not just because it was when McDavid was drafted, but it also outlined through the 2014-2015 season that the current draft lottery was prone to tanking. In fact, seeing the upcoming of Connor McDavid and the possibility of him being part of their team, many teams shamefully tanked and were criticized for it.

Yet, how can Red Wings do significantly worst than teams blamed for tanking in 2015...? The draft lottery was changed to discourage tanking.

I still firmly believe that, in an ideal world with competitive integrity, teams would 100% try to better their teams in the off-season. If every team has given its best and still ends up last, then, fine, good luck in the draft lottery.

Now, teams are able to purposely save literally 14m++ in cap space to "rebuild". This approach is perfectly fine given the loops in the system, but it bears no thoughts for the fanbase and has no integrity..

It's not trolling. I mean, who did Red Wings even sign this off season? I hate to say it, but having watched disastrous results of Ottawa and Detroit last season, I was happy they didn't win the lottery.. there is karma out there.

Let's be honest, Ottawa traded Karlsson, Hoffman, Stone, etc. That's also a team that wasn't trying to win.

I'll give you an example of a team that, imo, deserved some of its early picks (except for the lucky draft lottery wins with low odds). Chicago. They compete every year, and do poorly some years, but they're not purposely fielding a terrible team without any thought to improving their team in off-season.. I'm not a blackhawks fan btw.. Last year, Sharks did their best and had a sad outcome. Sadly, they traded their 1st. They -did- try to win however.

wow, your lack of hockey knowledge is pretty incredible. Detroit did everything they could to keep making the playoffs until the team severely lacked talent. Maybe look up Detroit's playoff streak because apparently you know nothing about it
 

Five Alarm Fire

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In Regards to TB, Its very possible that a "low" offer sheet on the RFA's may not be matched.
OR
They will have to move Stamkos.

These are not impossible outcomes for TB.

Depends on the RFA. I think we match anything that gets thrown at Sergachev, unless its something outrageous. He's the number one priority.

These offer sheets can have a snowball effect though, and really force our hand at moving a player for a loss.

As for Stamkos, I really think that Vegas was our best chance at moving him. That ship has sailed, and I don't see him waiving his NMC.
 

DeeVeeUss

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wow, your lack of hockey knowledge is pretty incredible. Detroit did everything they could to keep making the playoffs until the team severely lacked talent. Maybe look up Detroit's playoff streak because apparently you know nothing about it
Exactly this. After 25 years straight in the playoffs with late 1st rd picks the cupboards going to look empty after a while. Add on Hollands mismanagement his last few seasons there and it's easy to see why full rebuild is necessary. Why should Yz build through overspending in free agency when the core just isn't there to truly contend yet.
 
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RealityHurts

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Feb 24, 2020
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wow, your lack of hockey knowledge is pretty incredible. Detroit did everything they could to keep making the playoffs until the team severely lacked talent. Maybe look up Detroit's playoff streak because apparently you know nothing about it

Actions of the past do not justify those of the present.

Under Yzerman, you guys aren't trying to win. If you did, you'd be signing some UFAs like Hoffman 6m/year or something. While that may not be ideal for a rebuild, you'd at least try to win. However, upon realizing that such signatures could results in a few additional wins and be the difference between last place, and say, 5th to last, the decision is clearly not to sign them.

There are other teams doing such full rebuilds and, while it makes sense from the club's perspective, it just doesn't feel right.
 

RealityHurts

Registered User
Feb 24, 2020
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Exactly this. After 25 years straight in the playoffs with late 1st rd picks the cupboards going to look empty after a while. Add on Hollands mismanagement his last few seasons there and it's easy to see why full rebuild is necessary. Why should Yz build through overspending in free agency when the core just isn't there to truly contend yet.
The people reading my posts don't seem to understand my point. Rebuilds are based on a loophole in the system. They make sense and I don't question that part. I just think it's messed up to gear teams knowing full well they're geared to lose more than they win.

See my reply above..
 

HoweHullOrr

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Oct 3, 2013
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In typical Brisebois fashion, I expect this all to get sorted out about a week before the season starts.

I'm not sure time is on the side of BriseBois. Teams have been filling their roster vacancies over time, leaving less and less cap room to maneuver and make trades with. I wouldn't be surprised if the waiting strategy doesn't have the opposite impact of what TBL would like (i.e., situation gets worse).
 

Favin

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Jun 24, 2015
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Someone give me the cliff-notes version of this 45-page Tyler Johnson thread (!)

What would the price be to move him?
 

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When I refer to Red wings fielding a weak team purposely, it's because they don't spend to cap or do their best in off-season and whatnot to try and better their team.

2015 was an important year for the NHL. Not just because it was when McDavid was drafted, but it also outlined through the 2014-2015 season that the current draft lottery was prone to tanking. In fact, seeing the upcoming of Connor McDavid and the possibility of him being part of their team, many teams shamefully tanked and were criticized for it.

Yet, how can Red Wings do significantly worst than teams blamed for tanking in 2015...? The draft lottery was changed to discourage tanking.

I still firmly believe that, in an ideal world with competitive integrity, teams would 100% try to better their teams in the off-season. If every team has given its best and still ends up last, then, fine, good luck in the draft lottery.

Now, teams are able to purposely save literally 14m++ in cap space to "rebuild". This approach is perfectly fine given the loops in the system, but it bears no thoughts for the fanbase and has no integrity..

It's not trolling. I mean, who did Red Wings even sign this off season? I hate to say it, but having watched disastrous results of Ottawa and Detroit last season, I was happy they didn't win the lottery.. there is karma out there.

Let's be honest, Ottawa traded Karlsson, Hoffman, Stone, etc. That's also a team that wasn't trying to win.

I'll give you an example of a team that, imo, deserved some of its early picks (except for the lucky draft lottery wins with low odds). Chicago. They compete every year, and do poorly some years, but they're not purposely fielding a terrible team without any thought to improving their team in off-season.. I'm not a blackhawks fan btw.. Last year, Sharks did their best and had a sad outcome. Sadly, they traded their 1st. They -did- try to win however.
The logic of this post is nonsensical. Detroit didn’t deserve to win the lottery because they didn’t spend money last year? Their final cap hit was 80m, even after trading Green (-1.5m). At time during the year they went over 81.5m. Colorado’s final cap hit was 76.2m, Montreal’s was 77.1m, Winnipeg’s was 77.7m and Nashville’s was 79.2m, so I guess all those cheapskates deserved to lose.

In a hard cap, a rebuilding team shouldn’t sign middling UFAs to multi-year deals to be slightly more “competitive” because they are going to need that cap space very soon for big raises their home grown RFAs and, later, UFAs. That’s why Colorado is being careful and Vancouver is going to have soon. Mediocre UFAs are the worst value contracts in the NHL, they don’t help teams win much of anything other than more bad cap management issues.

Presumably Detroit is done taking more cap dumpier deals and is now taking offers on better cap casualties like other teams with cap space so that roster will improve. They also have to sign some bigger ticket RFAs so money will be spent on them. I’m sorry the team doesn’t meet your approval.
 
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Lil Sebastian Cossa

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Actions of the past do not justify those of the present.

Under Yzerman, you guys aren't trying to win. If you did, you'd be signing some UFAs like Hoffman 6m/year or something. While that may not be ideal for a rebuild, you'd at least try to win. However, upon realizing that such signatures could results in a few additional wins and be the difference between last place, and say, 5th to last, the decision is clearly not to sign them.

There are other teams doing such full rebuilds and, while it makes sense from the club's perspective, it just doesn't feel right.

No, we wouldn't. Even with Ken Holland who was the quintessential "go for it" GM with Ilitch behind him... we stopped going out and signing big pieces and instead looked for flippable pieces.


We also didn't go out and sign a bunch of guys to fill our cap up because we've still got potentially big signings of RFA guys. We want the flexibility to keep Bertuzzi and Mantha for the long term. If we ran out and spent to the cap in UFA... guess what, bye bye to our own homegrown guys.

Lastly, hahahahahaha... you think 14-15 is the season that showed tanking was viable? Really? Look back at history, bud. Mario Lemieux's draft year, Eric Lindros's draft year, etc. Man, look at most teams prior to the institution of the cap.

The people reading my posts don't seem to understand my point. Rebuilds are based on a loophole in the system. They make sense and I don't question that part. I just think it's messed up to gear teams knowing full well they're geared to lose more than they win.

See my reply above..


It's because your point isn't a good one. Rebuilds are not based on a loophole in the system. Rebuilds ARE the system. When you have a hard salary cap, you try to sign guys to long term contracts to get cost certainty and hopefully get better performance than you're paying for. If you make bad signings, you have to either bury them or trade them or whatever. It's messed up to do what Ottawa does and when you land fabulous players, you trade them because you're too cheap to pay their salaries. It's messed up when you do what Arizona does and purposely trade for guys who make little to no money but have big contracts so you can skirt the cap floor rules. It's messed up when you do what Buffalo did and trade away multiple goaltenders in a year you're trying to tank because they were playing too well.

There are blatant examples of tanking that exist. It does a ridiculous disservice to compare what GMs like Yzerman are doing to teams ACTIVELY trying to suck. Actively moving out good players to get below a salary threshold is tanking. Not choosing to sign average players or even good players to contracts more than they are worth is not.
 
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8999

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Mar 20, 2010
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Someone give me the cliff-notes version of this 45-page Tyler Johnson thread (!)

What would the price be to move him?

It's rumored that a 3-team Fleury move where one team takes a 3.5m (50% of 7m) cap hit for 2 years is being held up because teams are looking for a 1st round pick as a sweetener (but VGK hasn't been willing to do this quite yet). Johnson is 5m for 4 years so maybe you can draw some conclusions from that.
 
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nbwingsfan

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Dec 13, 2009
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When I refer to Red wings fielding a weak team purposely, it's because they don't spend to cap or do their best in off-season and whatnot to try and better their team.

2015 was an important year for the NHL. Not just because it was when McDavid was drafted, but it also outlined through the 2014-2015 season that the current draft lottery was prone to tanking. In fact, seeing the upcoming of Connor McDavid and the possibility of him being part of their team, many teams shamefully tanked and were criticized for it.

Yet, how can Red Wings do significantly worst than teams blamed for tanking in 2015...? The draft lottery was changed to discourage tanking.

I still firmly believe that, in an ideal world with competitive integrity, teams would 100% try to better their teams in the off-season. If every team has given its best and still ends up last, then, fine, good luck in the draft lottery.

Now, teams are able to purposely save literally 14m++ in cap space to "rebuild". This approach is perfectly fine given the loops in the system, but it bears no thoughts for the fanbase and has no integrity..

It's not trolling. I mean, who did Red Wings even sign this off season? I hate to say it, but having watched disastrous results of Ottawa and Detroit last season, I was happy they didn't win the lottery.. there is karma out there.

Let's be honest, Ottawa traded Karlsson, Hoffman, Stone, etc. That's also a team that wasn't trying to win.

I'll give you an example of a team that, imo, deserved some of its early picks (except for the lucky draft lottery wins with low odds). Chicago. They compete every year, and do poorly some years, but they're not purposely fielding a terrible team without any thought to improving their team in off-season.. I'm not a blackhawks fan btw.. Last year, Sharks did their best and had a sad outcome. Sadly, they traded their 1st. They -did- try to win however.
Detroit did try to ice the best team they could last year. They were near the cap they just had so many bad contracts. This off-season they signed a reclemation project in Ryan,a borderline top 4D in Stretcher, a starting goalie in Greiss and a solid third line player in Namestnikov.

Theyve done their part in trying to improve their team
 

SimonEdvinssonAtSix

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Nov 2, 2018
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Actions of the past do not justify those of the present.

Under Yzerman, you guys aren't trying to win. If you did, you'd be signing some UFAs like Hoffman 6m/year or something. While that may not be ideal for a rebuild, you'd at least try to win. However, upon realizing that such signatures could results in a few additional wins and be the difference between last place, and say, 5th to last, the decision is clearly not to sign them.

There are other teams doing such full rebuilds and, while it makes sense from the club's perspective, it just doesn't feel right.

Do actions of the past impact conditions of the present?
If you answer no, you're being disingenuous.
If you answer yes, your argument is invalid.

IN
Merril : 925K
Stecher : 1.7M
Ryan : 1M
Namestnikov : 2M
Greiss : 3.6M

OUT
Daley 3.2M
Ericsson 4.25M
Bowey 1M
Abdlekader 4.25M
Howard 4M

As an example, if you look at whos out and who is in for Detroit this year you see that Yzerman has managed to actually upgrade the team in multiple positions for less money. So does it make more sense to sign a guy like Hoffman to 6M like you suggested or to upgrade multiple positions around the same amount of money?
These moves also give Detroit assets they can sell at the TDL and in the long run what would make Detroit more competitive: Hoffman or more draft picks? We could debate the merits of either side but when you see how empty Detroits prospect line is the choice becomes a bit more clear.

Detroit is simply not going to win. There are NO move or moves that can be reasonably be made to get us to win.
What we can do is attempt to be more competitive. The moves made by Yzerman this offseason do just that.
So your metric of "trying to win" should be focused on trying to compete instead.
Ask yourself, Has Yzermans moves made Detroit a more competitive team?

While it may not be a difficult task Detroit will win more games this season than last.
 
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TheFinalWord

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Apr 25, 2005
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The people reading my posts don't seem to understand my point. Rebuilds are based on a loophole in the system. They make sense and I don't question that part. I just think it's messed up to gear teams knowing full well they're geared to lose more than they win.

See my reply above..
And if teams do what you're suggesting, they will lose for an even longer period of time. Ottawa definitely tanked, sold off their players, but have now put themselves in a position to be able to take on key players and have some good young talent. Melnyk can still screw it up, but that team's future looks great. Available cap space is also an asset. Ask Buffalo.
 

Lacaar

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Jan 25, 2012
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Edmonton
Cliff Notes.

1. My team doesn't tank.. only other teams tank.
2. Whomever finished in the bottom 5 tanked. It's not that they were bad.. they could have acquired assets at the deadline! Unless it was my team. then the team and fans deserve it. The other team and fans don't. Unless you're from some non-descript team with little to no fanbase. Then sure they're ok.
3. Teams rebuild on purpose which shouldn't be allowed.. so we'll call it tanking.
4. Bad teams should always be bad and should be further punished for being bad by making them draft 15th overall. Who cares if they never make the playoffs again so long as the team I cheer for gets the cup and 1st overall. The less greedy ones will settle for winning the cup and at least being in the draft lottery for a reward. Because big shiny trophies don't cut it anymore.

In the end I would like the rules to change to favor whatever is happening to my team currently. Please thanks. I hate all the teams that picked higher than mine and hereby officially dub them tankers.
 

BCNate

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Apr 3, 2016
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From the Canucks:

Joulevi or Rathbone- NHL ready (or close)D prospect
Benn- Servicable bottom pair D on an expiring contract, there to balance out a small bit of salary.
2021 1st

Tyler Johnson
Cernak

I get it's not great value for TB, but they get a 1st, good prospect and enough money to sign Cirelli

Or

Gaudette
Benn- Servicable bottom pair D on an expiring contract, there to balance out a small bit of salary.
2021 2nd

Tyler Johnson
Cirelli

Again, not great value, but TB get a young #3 centre with some upside and a decent pick, and open up some money to resign Cernak
 

kingpest19

Registered User
Sep 21, 2004
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No, we wouldn't. Even with Ken Holland who was the quintessential "go for it" GM with Ilitch behind him... we stopped going out and signing big pieces and instead looked for flippable pieces.


We also didn't go out and sign a bunch of guys to fill our cap up because we've still got potentially big signings of RFA guys. We want the flexibility to keep Bertuzzi and Mantha for the long term. If we ran out and spent to the cap in UFA... guess what, bye bye to our own homegrown guys.

Lastly, hahahahahaha... you think 14-15 is the season that showed tanking was viable? Really? Look back at history, bud. Mario Lemieux's draft year, Eric Lindros's draft year, etc. Man, look at most teams prior to the institution of the cap.




It's because your point isn't a good one. Rebuilds are not based on a loophole in the system. Rebuilds ARE the system. When you have a hard salary cap, you try to sign guys to long term contracts to get cost certainty and hopefully get better performance than you're paying for. If you make bad signings, you have to either bury them or trade them or whatever. It's messed up to do what Ottawa does and when you land fabulous players, you trade them because you're too cheap to pay their salaries. It's messed up when you do what Arizona does and purposely trade for guys who make little to no money but have big contracts so you can skirt the cap floor rules. It's messed up when you do what Buffalo did and trade away multiple goaltenders in a year you're trying to tank because they were playing too well.

There are blatant examples of tanking that exist. It does a ridiculous disservice to compare what GMs like Yzerman are doing to teams ACTIVELY trying to suck. Actively moving out good players to get below a salary threshold is tanking. Not choosing to sign average players or even good players to contracts more than they are worth is not.
I think that's more important to the franchise rather than going out and signing mid range guys first. Yeah Detroit has caps pace right now but those two guys are going to suck up a decent chunk of that. And looking at next years cap, they've got a huge chunk then too but still have a lot of players to sign. I think next off seasonwill need to be a huge for Yzerman and the direction of the franchise
 

RealityHurts

Registered User
Feb 24, 2020
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454
I understand your point. But My point is, there is actually nothing our team can do right now.
The only thing we could have done this off season was pay 10M for Taylor Hall... who would be centred by.... Filppula? Nielsen?
Our team isn't trying to be dead last... we just are dead last, and no one we can sign will change that. Feel free to take a close look at our roster man.

What I criticize is the system and also the team. I understand your point concerning sens and agree with it 100%. It's your last statement that's exactly the problem though. In many cases, even leaving 5-8m cap can be considered enough moving forward to manage contracts. ''Signing this guy will not give us anything'' is exactly what I mean by not being competitive

wow, your lack of hockey knowledge is pretty incredible. Detroit did everything they could to keep making the playoffs until the team severely lacked talent. Maybe look up Detroit's playoff streak because apparently you know nothing about it
I lack hockey knowledge? I gave you some stats from last year and compared them to modern NHL history

They did everything they could?

upload_2020-10-14_12-44-54.png


They had 13m in cap space (if this website is correct). They could have spent a bit more in the cap to be competitive. I understand that this doesn't correspond to the 'rebuild' that teams go through seeing as how it'd lead to additional wins..

Stats from Lockout year (2012-2013)

upload_2020-10-14_12-44-38.png


So, in 68 games, 39 points, just slightly better than the worst team in lockout year (36 points in 48 games). Perhaps the worst performance in 20 years (by far) by worst team of league and you have the gall to say I lack hockey knowledge and emphasize the best was done? I show you numbers and stats, and you give me some qualitative assessments that aren't centered around what the stats show.
 

Price is Wright

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Right now imagining Tampa and Detroit making a deal that gets the Bolts out of cap hell while setting up the Red Wings to get out of the basement and the league screams murder about it.
 

RealityHurts

Registered User
Feb 24, 2020
571
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Lastly, hahahahahaha... you think 14-15 is the season that showed tanking was viable? Really? Look back at history, bud. Mario Lemieux's draft year, Eric Lindros's draft year, etc. Man, look at most teams prior to the institution of the cap.

There are blatant examples of tanking that exist. It does a ridiculous disservice to compare what GMs like Yzerman are doing to teams ACTIVELY trying to suck. Actively moving out good players to get below a salary threshold is tanking. Not choosing to sign average players or even good players to contracts more than they are worth is not.

I never said tanking was viable. I'm saying they changed the system to discourage it. That's a fact.

Imagine teams actively trying to suck yet achieving far better results than Detroit last year. (see above post). What are we so see from this? Honestly, with that record, it's hard to say an effort was made to 'compete'. That's what I criticize..
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
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What I criticize is the system and also the team. I understand your point concerning sens and agree with it 100%. It's your last statement that's exactly the problem though. In many cases, even leaving 5-8m cap can be considered enough moving forward to manage contracts. ''Signing this guy will not give us anything'' is exactly what I mean by not being competitive


I lack hockey knowledge? I gave you some stats from last year and compared them to modern NHL history

They did everything they could?

View attachment 372736

They had 13m in cap space (if this website is correct). They could have spent a bit more in the cap to be competitive. I understand that this doesn't correspond to the 'rebuild' that teams go through seeing as how it'd lead to additional wins..

Stats from Lockout year (2012-2013)

View attachment 372735

So, in 68 games, 39 points, just slightly better than the worst team in lockout year (36 points in 48 games). Perhaps the worst performance in 20 years (by far) by worst team of league and you have the gall to say I lack hockey knowledge and emphasize the best was done? I show you numbers and stats, and you give me some qualitative assessments that aren't centered around what the stats show.

Right now the Wings have 18M in cap space without Bertuzzi and Mantha signed. Bertuzzi at 5M and Mantha at 7M. Those seem pretty reasonable if they were to sign long term deals. Guess where that leaves us for 2020? At about 6-7M in cap space. They could possibly add another 6 if they wanted to fill up Zetterberg's LTIR amount. but frankly, that's not free cap space and shouldn't be treated as such.

They did everything they could within reason. Would I like to see them go out and sign a guy like Dadonov who's pretty good? Sure. I'd also like them to think beyond one year with their cap planning and roster construction. Could we take a guy like Boychuk and have a slightly better D? Could we have dealt basically nothing and gotten Nate Schmidt back? Sure. But that's us giving up flexibility because some random dude doesn't think we are doing enough to "try to win".

Focus on teams like Buffalo who deal away goalies (multiple) in a season because they want the top pick. That have their entire fanbase en masse IN ARENA spend months booing the good things their team does and cheering when they lose. What the Wings are doing isn't tanking. You don't have to like it, but Yzerman is bringing in guys who are NHL caliber players to replace guys who were on the roster before he got here that weren't.
 

Hammettf2b

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Jul 9, 2012
22,489
4,612
So California
What I criticize is the system and also the team. I understand your point concerning sens and agree with it 100%. It's your last statement that's exactly the problem though. In many cases, even leaving 5-8m cap can be considered enough moving forward to manage contracts. ''Signing this guy will not give us anything'' is exactly what I mean by not being competitive


I lack hockey knowledge? I gave you some stats from last year and compared them to modern NHL history

They did everything they could?

View attachment 372736

They had 13m in cap space (if this website is correct). They could have spent a bit more in the cap to be competitive. I understand that this doesn't correspond to the 'rebuild' that teams go through seeing as how it'd lead to additional wins..

Stats from Lockout year (2012-2013)

View attachment 372735

So, in 68 games, 39 points, just slightly better than the worst team in lockout year (36 points in 48 games). Perhaps the worst performance in 20 years (by far) by worst team of league and you have the gall to say I lack hockey knowledge and emphasize the best was done? I show you numbers and stats, and you give me some qualitative assessments that aren't centered around what the stats show.
"They could have spent a bit more in the cap to be competitive"

and what, end up 2nd to last as opposed to dead last? It wouldn't have made a difference
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
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I never said tanking was viable. I'm saying they changed the system to discourage it. That's a fact.

Imagine teams actively trying to suck yet achieving far better results than Detroit last year. (see above post). What are we so see from this? Honestly, with that record, it's hard to say an effort was made to 'compete'. That's what I criticize..

Detroit last year lost Danny DeKeyser early in the year. He was slated to be their #1D (by default, really) and he was out injured. Anthony Mantha was out injured for a large chunk of the year. Jimmy Howard regressed to the point of hilarity. The Wings were certainly built to do more than be last in the league by 30 points. They just lost several of their best/most key players and had really really bad timed regressions from their depth.

Frans Nielsen wasn't a tanking move. He was signed to be a 40-50p 2C. Last year, he got beat up a whole bunch and potted 9 points.
Justin Abdelkader wasn't a tanking move. He was signed to be a 20g PWF. Last year, he was complete dogshit and scored 3 points.
Andreas Athanasiou wasn't a tanking move. He was re-upped the prior year and was strongly looked at for an extension. He went from scoring 30g, 24a to 10g, 14a.
Mike Green wasn't a tanking move. He was extended to 2x5.5 and he came out in 19-20 and was dogshit prior to being traded and opting out of COVID world.

The Wings dealt a 4th for Erne. A promising prospect in Regula for Perlini. Jacob De La Rose for Robby Fabbri. Vili Saarijarvi for Eric Comrie.

The Wings and Yzerman were making moves where they could... but they still had heavy cap restrictions and a whole bunch of assets from the Holland tenure that nobody f***ing wanted.

The fact that you're blowing past the fact that Detroit was just f***ing terrible last year to say "OH, THEY WEREN'T EVEN TRYING TO BE COMPETITIVE" and they should be punished and criticized for that fact is dumbfounding. The Wings didn't have a ton of assets that would be worth more to other teams than they would be to Detroit. They were essentially capped out heading into last year with a bunch of old, broken down dullards and a bunch of fresh-faced newbies not ready for prime time.

If they weren't trying to be competitive and just wanted to tank, you would have seen more Cholowski and Lindstrom. Givani Smith, Evgeny Svechnikov, Michael Rasmussen, etc. would have been given the last half of the season to test it out. Detroit was in a very unenviable position because of bad contracts signed to even worse players that are now rolling off the books or being bought out. If you wanted to complain about them being "non-competitive"... why the hell would Yzerman have bought out Abdelkader? If they just wanted to keep losing, I think a pretty good way to do that would be to run out a 4.25M corpse to play 1000 minutes a season and score 5 points.
 
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