Waived: Tyler Johnson (cleared) - continued

[8999]

Yes, I do mean sweetener, I edited my post to be more clear.

I get that their may be a gap between what teams are asking for vs what TB will offer, I'm speaking more to the posts in pt 1 and pt 2 of this thread. They make TJ sound like a scrub on a beyond toxic deal. Looking at numbers, and having watched a number of TB games over the past few year, I'm not sure I understand why.

You're right that it's not as bad as some make it sound but a few possibilities why people are harsh:

1) His peak relied on his speed which seems to have dropped off and this is something that is unlikely to improve going forward; so now it's like he's 'small & slowing down' which is not a good combination
2) There are other players with similar cap hits that look better; even on just TB, Gourde/Johnson/Killorn/Palat are all around 5m and wouldn't most prefer the other 3?
3) He had a pretty quiet playoffs and recency bias being what it is, nobody is going to be all that high on him right now. He didn't play all that poorly but if you watch any video montage of TB's playoff highlights, not sure you'll see TJ even once.

 

[Djp]

I think Tampa just needs to pony up, but they're unwilling to. If they put on the league-wide bulletin board, "TJ + 2021 2nd +2022 2nd for FC", I'm sure at least one team would bite. But I think they're just trying to test how small of a sweetener they can give other teams right now, and teams are stiffing small sweeteners anticipating a better sweetener will come along.

Late 2nds are pretty useless in terms of value. Cap space to take from a team is rent . If it was one yr it be easier to swallow.

He’s getting older and losing speed. He might be fine next year but the last two coukd be brutal.

Honest question, what am I missing here?

People are trashing on Tyler Johnson here like he is a Loui Erikkson level player,

The last 2 seasons combined he has put up 43 goals, 78 points in 145 games, playing a 3rd line 15 minutes per game with little power play time. The pace for those are 24 goals, 44 points, 15 mins per night. Plug him into a top 6 role and some decent fancy stats, would it be unfathomable to expect that he goes 30 goals 50 points?

I get he is paid 5 mill for 4 more years, which takes him to 34, which is a little high, but if you could get a significant sweetener along with him for free, why wouldn't a team explore it. He has outproduced/put up similar stats to a number of recent signings that have been said to be great deals.

He’s worse than Errors ksson.in year 3-4 he’d be equivalent. He has 2 more years on top.

You can’t be naive to judge him based on prior seasons. You need to factor in age. When players hit 30s many many of thrm fall of a cliff or their production does not justify the pay.

I agree, people here are acting like he totally sucks. He’s not the first line type player he once was but he’s been a solid middle 6 player on the leagues best team for a few years now. He would be a good 2nd liner on a lot of teams.
Regarding his contract, in a normal year he would have positive value. This year, with not only a flat cap, but many teams not even getting near the cap, combined with teams trying to hold Tampa’s feet to the fire, that’s moved him into negative value territory. But it doesn’t mean he’s a bad player or that he couldn’t help out a lot of teams.

If his contract was 1-2 yrs it be easier to swallow. 3+ is too much.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Throw in a 1st and make him go away. It’s that easy.

 

[Rschmitz]

Hilarious

Yeah hilarious. Had almost thirty goals last year with third line minutes and no PP time. Laugh away

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Johnson for Baertschi+Virtanen
Tampa buys out Baertschi and rejects Virtanen QO (or trades him back to Vancouver if the league doesn't step in).

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

What’s wild to me is that Killorn hasn’t been dealt yet, at this point only 17 teams have the cap room to bring him on. Of those teams Carolina, Chicago, Philadelphia, Dallas, Calgary, Colorado, New York Islanders + Rangers, and Buffalo are basically capped out once RFAs are re-signed and the roster is filled out.

Realistically Florida, Boston, Nashville, Columbus, Los Angeles, Detroit, New Jersey, Detroit, Ottawa can take on his salary but who knows which of those teams are on his list or if those teams are working on a budget.

Tampa is obviously a team ran by a bunch of smart guys, but every deal that’s signed makes it tougher to moves these guys

 

[themelkman]

What’s wild to me is that Killorn hasn’t been dealt yet, at this point only 17 teams have the cap room to bring him on. Of those teams Carolina, Chicago, Philadelphia, Dallas, Calgary, Colorado, New York Islanders + Rangers, and Buffalo are basically capped out once RFAs are re-signed and the roster is filled out.

Realistically Florida, Boston, Nashville, Columbus, Los Angeles, Detroit, New Jersey, Detroit, Ottawa can take on his salary but who knows which of those teams are on his list or if those teams are working on a budget.

Tampa is obviously a team ran by a bunch of smart guys, but every deal that’s signed makes it tougher to moves these guys

Yeah im not exactly sure what waiting is going to do for them. Doing it as fast as possible was the right move because teams had cap then

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

Yeah im not exactly sure what waiting is going to do for them. Doing it as fast as possible was the right move because teams had cap then

We’ve seen with these past couple trades how difficult it is to move cap and how crappy the returns have been. If I’m Tampa I think you just gotta move him for the best pick or prospect you can get back. Likely do the same with Paquette, sucks to lose good guys for cheap but that’s 6.1 right there and that can easily get two of these RFA’s on a short deal.

 

[tomd]

What’s wild to me is that Killorn hasn’t been dealt yet, at this point only 17 teams have the cap room to bring him on. Of those teams Carolina, Chicago, Philadelphia, Dallas, Calgary, Colorado, New York Islanders + Rangers, and Buffalo are basically capped out once RFAs are re-signed and the roster is filled out.

Realistically Florida, Boston, Nashville, Columbus, Los Angeles, Detroit, New Jersey, Detroit, Ottawa can take on his salary but who knows which of those teams are on his list or if those teams are working on a budget.

Tampa is obviously a team ran by a bunch of smart guys, but every deal that’s signed makes it tougher to moves these guys

Your list expands slightly once players are put on LTIR. Anaheim, for example, could take on the cap hit once Kesler is put on LTIR.

 

[not a troll]

Yeah hilarious. Had almost thirty goals last year with third line minutes and no PP time. Laugh away

Then followed it up with a sub 40-pt pace season on the same team.

No one even wants him for free.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Oh, I just meant I don’t know if any GM would offer a 1st without at least some minimal lottery protection in this crazy season. Teams will take it, but even Tampa’s season can south with a bunch of injuries and we just saw two traded 1st blow up on teams. Only San Jose really counts because Ottawa has two terrible years in a row and you can’t keep delaying the 1st.

Sure you can. The 1st the Penguins gave the Leafs for Phil Kessel had the condition that the Leafs would only get it if the Penguins made the playoffs, it was delayed for two years and then if the Penguins didn't make the playoffs in those two years, the Leafs wouldn't get a 1st at all.

 

[The Macho King]

Throw in a 1st and make him go away. It’s that easy.

This is what it is going to take probably.

 

[Rschmitz]

Then followed it up with a sub 40-pt pace season on the same team.

No one even wants him for free.

uh yeah, duh, if somebody wanted him for free I wouldn't have made the post that teams are making a mistake by not acquiring him.