Prospect Info: Tyler Boucher (F) - PART II

[Dan Patrick]

Like a RW Raffi Torres

 

[Hale The Villain]

Like a RW Raffi Torres

Not a bad comparable, but hopefully far less dirty.

 

[R2010]

He’s never going to be a skilled guy. He’s a big bodied, drive to and setup in front of the net, shooter who can make a play down low.

He’ll be a North-South power forward, 25-25 type seasons in his prime, along with being an absolute wrecking ball.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that from a 10th overall, quite good actually. You rarely get top line guys there.

Only top 6 forwards and top 4 D picked at 10th overall since 2000 are Jonas Brodin in 2011 and Mikko Rantanen in 2015, nothing automatic about picking at 10. More busts than hits in the past 20 years.

It's true. You do rarely get those guys there. I think Sillinger will be a more impactful player than Boucher though. Fine with Boucher if we didn't pass on a couple real high end skill guys. So from 14 on he was fine to me. Tough to see passing on Sillinger/Corronato - Sillinger in particular.

 

[PlayOn]

He’s not raw. This is a guy that had every resource available to him at a young age and has an adult frame already. His skills aren’t going to get any better.

I mean, the same could have been said of Sanderson and in a year by all accounts his offensive game has developed considerably.

Power forwards are actually known to take longer to develop. His dad talked about his untapped offensive potential and how in his first year he didn’t get PP time and he got hurt early last season so he didn’t really get to build off his strong start. The Sens also believe he has offensive upside and have said as much. Could they be wrong? Sure, but I don’t think anyone can say definitively that he won’t develop further. I don’t think we’re looking at a 70 point star here but I don’t think the Sens expect a third liner either.

 

[TheDebater]

He’s never going to be a skilled guy. He’s a big bodied, drive to and setup in front of the net, shooter who can make a play down low.

He’ll be a North-South power forward, 25-25 type seasons in his prime, along with being an absolute wrecking ball.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that from a 10th overall, quite good actually. You rarely get top line guys there.

Only top 6 forwards and top 4 D picked at 10th overall since 2000 are Jonas Brodin in 2011 and Mikko Rantanen in 2015, nothing automatic about picking at 10. More busts than hits in the past 20 years.

If he becomes a 50 points player, in addition to being a physical force every game (or at least a physical presence), then I am 100% satisfied. I know you did not quote me directly, but my definition of "skill" is a player that can pot at least 20 goals and approximately 25-30 assists or 25 and 25 as you suggested.

I am not expecting Boucher to be a 70+ point player in his prime and to play the physical style he seems capable of, but my initial point was if we drafted Boucher with the expectation that he might top off at 40 points and play a physical game...then I assume many Sens fans might be disappointed in that projection, I mean Chris Tierney can score 40 points for crying out loud.

 

[BondraTime]

If he becomes a 50 points player, in addition to being a physical force every game (or at least a physical presence), then I am 100% satisfied. I know you did not quote me directly, but my definition of "skill" is a player that can pot at least 20 goals and approximately 25-30 assists or 25 and 25 as you suggested.

I am not expecting Boucher to be a 70+ point player in his prime and to play the physical style he seems capable of, but my initial point was if we drafted Boucher with the expectation that he might top off at 40 points and play a physical game...then I assume many Sens fans might be disappointed in that projection, I mean Chris Tierney can score 40 points for crying out loud.

If Chris Tierny played a power game he’d be sought after by every single team in the league at a very high price.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

I mean, the same could have been said of Sanderson and in a year by all accounts his offensive game has developed considerably.

Power forwards are actually known to take longer to develop. His dad talked about his untapped offensive potential and how in his first year he didn’t get PP time and he got hurt early last season so he didn’t really get to build off his strong start. The Sens also believe he has offensive upside and have said as much. Could they be wrong? Sure, but I don’t think anyone can say definitively that he won’t develop further. I don’t think we’re looking at a 70 point star here but I don’t think the Sens expect a third liner either.

Anyone saying a player is what he is at 18 is out to lunch. He has tons of room and time to develop skills.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Don't like the chances of Boucher scoring 25G and 50P a year.

That's Brady-level production, and there's a reason why he was viewed as a prospect worthy of a top 5-10 pick and Boucher as a late 1st, as Brady is better at pretty much everything besides hitting.

 

[TheDebater]

If Chris Tierny played a power game he’d be sought after by every single team in the league at a very high price.

Fair point, but 40 points should be the minimum would you not agree? I know it is a bit harder to gauge players like Tkachuk and Boucher because very very few players in the league can impose themselves physically and still manage to put up points, so you almost have to give them some leeway when it comes to how much points they put up, as it is a very difficult task to do both.

Tkachuk was the only forward last season with 200+ hits, he was also the only player in the league with 30+ points and 140+ hits. A few other players came close with 30+ points and 130+ hits, but that goes to show how difficult it is to do.

As a minor side note, Brady's 248 hits in 56 games played is pretty incredible, he is such a unique player, coupled with the fact he was a 4th overall pick should make the expectations for Boucher much less to be honest if Tkachuk is going to be used as a comparable for him.

 

[PlayOn]

Don't like the chances of Boucher scoring 25G and 50P a year.

That's Brady-level production, and there's a reason why he was viewed as a prospect worthy of a top 5-10 pick and Boucher as a late 1st, as Brady is better at pretty much everything besides hitting.

That’s Brady now, I think he’s a ~65 point player in his prime, so if Boucher peaks at 50 I don’t think that means he’s on Brady’s level.

 

[JD1]

Don't think I've ever seen anyone on the board comment on Dorion stating that Boucher can score from outside the dots

That's a significant statement PD made and it's quite different from the general commentary here

 

[DaveMatthew]

Don't like the chances of Boucher scoring 25G and 50P a year.

That's Brady-level production, and there's a reason why he was viewed as a prospect worthy of a top 5-10 pick and Boucher as a late 1st, as Brady is better at pretty much everything besides hitting.

You man that's Brady at 18, 19 and 20 years of age production.

 

[Micklebot]

If Chris Tierny played a power game he’d be sought after by every single team in the league at a very high price.

I kind of feel like his floor is going to be something like Clutterbuck, that's not something to scoff at, you obviously want a higher top end projection but as a floor that's pretty great.

 

[BondraTime]

Fair point, but 40 points should be the minimum would you not agree? I know it is a bit harder to gauge players like Tkachuk and Boucher because very very few players in the league can impose themselves physically and still manage to put up points, so you almost have to give them some leeway when it comes to how much points they put up, as it is a very difficult task to do both.

Tkachuk was the only forward last season with 200+ hits, he was also the only player in the league with 30+ points and 140+ hits. A few other players came close with 30+ points and 130+ hits, but that goes to show how difficult it is to do.

As a minor side note, Brady's 248 hits in 56 games played is pretty incredible, he is such a unique player, coupled with the fact he was a 4th overall pick should make the expectations for Boucher much less to be honest if Tkachuk is going to be used as a comparable for him.

Points are pretty irrelevant, I do think Boucher will be getting 40 points, but even if that’s all he does, he will be an asset.

Fans would see a Jordan Eberle type career of 60 points per season as a great pick at 10, but we see year after year these kind of guys are less sought after and less wanted than guys with jam like Goodrow and Coleman by winning teams.

Boucher is bigger than both these guys, a better skater, much more physical, has a much better offensive skill set. He should absolutely be putting up 0.5 ppg (Coleman averages 34 points per year, Goodrow 23).

If we are needing to find some 60 point offensive wingers or centres, they aren’t hard to find through trade during any UFA or trade period.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Missed a lot of hockey last year in a key development year. I think he did show some flashes of skill in the WJSS. I also think he showed he thinks the game well. Not every player takes the same development path. IMO he has enough raw tools to be very intriguing. I am willing to be patient and see how he does before anointing him or being too quick to right him off. Read the Pinto post draft thread, how quick some of us were to judge him and the Tkachuk threads and how often 8 goals was mentioned.

 

[BondraTime]

I kind of feel like his floor is going to be something like Clutterbuck, that's not something to scoff at, you obviously want a higher top end projection but as a floor that's pretty great.

Add 2/3 inches and a few pounds, and 15-20+ points to Clutterbuck and I think that’s what you’re looking at with Boucher, which would be a gigantic win.

 

[JungleBeat]

Points are pretty irrelevant, I do think Boucher will be getting 40 points, but even if that’s all he does, he will be an asset.

Fans would see a Jordan Eberle type career of 60 points per season as a great pick at 10, but we see year after year these kind of guys are less sought after and less wanted than guys with jam like Goodrow and Coleman by winning teams.

Boucher is bigger than both these guys, a better skater, much more physical, has a much better offensive skill set. He should absolutely be putting up 0.5 ppg (Coleman averages 34 points per year, Goodrow 23).

If we are needing to find some 60 point offensive wingers or centres, they aren’t hard to find through trade during any UFA or trade period.

You’re comparing a top ten pick to a third round pick and an undrafted player. Those type of players are valuable when they’re making pennies.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Look at Tom Wilson's draft year stat line:

49 GP 9G 18A 27P

Then went PPG in 13 playoff games

Not everything is about points when it comes to prospect progression

 

[Micklebot]

Add 2/3 inches and a few pounds, and 15-20+ points to Clutterbuck and I think that’s what you’re looking at with Boucher, which would be a gigantic win.

Yeah, no doubt, a guy causing havoc on the forcheck every night that pots in the range of 35-50 pts any given year is a gem. Him and Formenton would be a fun line imo. Maybe Greig as their center.

I hope you're right about how much production to project, even if he doesn't pan out though he should be a fan favourite for the mayhem he can cause alone.

 

[Hale The Villain]

You man that's Brady at 18, 19 and 20 years of age production.

I'm not convinced he has a lot more offense in him. Expecting him to stagnate around 60P a year.

 

[Micklebot]

You’re comparing a top ten pick to a third round pick and an undrafted player. Those type of players are valuable when they’re making pennies.

If we compared him to Stone would you complain he's being compared to a 6th rounder? Draft position of a current NHL player as a comparable isn't really relevant, you can't just assume any third round pick will develop into those guys

 

[jake1]

I'm a UND fan and don't watch as much NHL hockey, but have adopted Ottawa for obvious reasons. When I watch the NHL playoffs, I'm stunned at times by the brutal physicality. Although I know it doesn't compare to the old days, it's still big men trying to intimidate and hurt opponents. So I'm in favor of being the hitter rather than the hittee. I'd say the big risk in the pick will be injuries, given his style of play.

The physical playoff element could also be a reason you might prefer Sanderson over Drysdale even if the latter was winning a Norris trophy. Size matters in battles.

 

[JungleBeat]

If we compared him to Stone would you complain he's being compared to a 6th rounder? Draft position of a current NHL player as a comparable isn't really relevant, you can't just assume any third round pick will develop into those guys

This pick be be a total bust if he didn’t have more skill than an undrafted bottom six player like Barclay Goodrow.

 

[BondraTime]

You’re comparing a top ten pick to a third round pick and an undrafted player. Those type of players are valuable when they’re making pennies.

I’m comparing the player type, those type of players are valued by NHL teams, Boucher is a ++ version of these guys.

Bigger
Better skater
More physical
Better offensive skill set

If he’s a 40 point guy, he’s going to be very valuable to his team. I think he’s going to be a 50 point guy in his prime.

I’d have taken Sillinger, I’d been advocating for him since before last years draft, but I absolutely can see Boucher being a more valued guy to his team should he develop into a 40+ point guy.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Regardless of offense, he has the ability to be one of the best players in the league at a pretty important element of the game. If he can excel at other elements of the game, you’re looking at a player without many peers.

This pick be be a total bust if he didn’t have more skill than an undrafted bottom six player like Barclay Goodrow.

Didn’t Bondra say exactly that - he has more skill?