Player Discussion Tyler Bertuzzi Appreciation Thread

[Aashir Mallik]

I appreciate the way Bertuzzi is playing as much as anyone, but those that think Bertuzzi and Domi can both be re-signed, obviously don't think serious attention needs to be paid to the defense core. I disagree.

Let's be real, Domi probably does not cost less than $4 million × 4 years. A guy who is playing top line minutes and is going to be damn near 50 points will not come any cheaper than that. Meanwhile, Bertuzzi isn't taking a pay cut from the $5.5 million he's making now. Let's say for argument sake he's willing to sign $5.5 × 3 Toronto. Let's look at the cap. We'll even assume Toronto is able to move Jarnkrok and Kampf, to save some money from the bottom 6 in the forward group.

2024-2025 Salary Cap

Forwards
Auston Matthews: $13,250,000
William Nylander: $11,500,000
John Tavares: $11,000,000
Mitch Marner: $10,903,000
Tyler Bertuzzi: $5,500,000
Max Domi: $4,000,000
Bobby McMann: $1,300,000
Nick Robertson: $1,200,000 (guess)
ELC / FA: $1,000,000
ELC / FA: $1,000,000
Eastan Cowan: $935,833
Pontus Holmberg: $800,000
Connor Dewar: $800,000

Defense
Morgan Rielly: $7,500,000
Jake McCabe: $2,000,000
Simon Benoit: $1,300,000
FA / Trade (like Liljegren)
FA / Trade
FA / Trade
Connor Timmins: $1,100,000

Goalies
FA / Trade
Joseph Woll: $766,667

Expected Salary Cap: $87,700,000
Total Cap Hit: $75,854,667
Salary Cap Remaining: $11,845,333

So even if you can move Jarnkrok and Kampf, bury Reaves and sign two FA's in your forward group (or ELCs) for $1 million each, you still have less than $12 million dollars to sign 3 Defenseman and a goalie, while trying to upgrade your backend. And that's IF you can get Domi to extend at $4.0 million and Bertuzzi to extend at $5.5 million. So unless you feel that emergence of Domi and Bertuzzi is enough to make Marner expendable in a trade that returns a stud defenseman and an NHL ready top 9 forward that combine to equal roughly his cap hit, I don't see how it's doable, without AGAIN neglecting your d-core.

that’s looking tough…

Because of the core, I’d let Bert walk, as we unfortunately aren’t trading Marner/nylander, can’t trade Tavares, and aren’t dumb enough to trade Matthews. So we’d have almost 17 million.

Use Bert’s money entirely on a dman, then grab another 3 million dollar dman and then a league min one. That leaves 8-9 million left for 3 forwards and a goalie, in this scenario I’d keep jarnkrok as his cap hit makes more sense on the team than off, so 2 forwards and a goalie for 6-7 million. Grab a tandem goalie for 2 million to split with woll, and then 1 forward at 1 million, and the other forward with the ear of the money. Obviously it’s much easier to say ballparks and talk vs doing it but this would make the most sense to me.

the players (core 4) need to realize that this is almost entirely their fault. We have 0 cap dumps on our cap and yet can’t fill our roster with everything we need. Matthews giving 0 leeway and nylander somehow negative leeway is gonna cost us another top 6 winger. Marners coming up and he sure as hell won’t either

In this case, it’s now 3? Top 6 Wingers we’ve had to let walk because of the salary.

The funny thing is they SHOULD still be able to win. The philosphy of paying high end talent is that you need less supporting talent, but these guys need it all, so yet again idk why they are paid so much

 

[tom leafers]

Imagine we give Domi/Bert matching $4.5m x 4 contracts or something like that. i can dream

 

[IrishInOntario]

Imagine we give Domi/Bert matching $4.5m x 4 contracts or something like that. i can dream

I cannot see a reality in which Tyler Bertuzzi takes a pay cut simply because he had a rough first half of the season. Another team will see his second half numbers, factor in his intangibles and offer more than $4.5 million. I think that at best you get hints resigned for the same money... JMO.

Trade
Kampf
Jamcrock

I would rather have Bert and Domi

Re-read my post (I know it's long). My numbers already factor in Jarnkrok and Kampf both being traded and Ryan Reaves being buried. With all of that Toronto would have roughly $11.8 million to add 3 defensemen and a goalie, while attempting to upgrade their backend.

 

[Jmo89]

Bert might take the Hyman contract with a bit less average. This is his healthiest season in a few years.

The team was at a similar spot with Hyman at almost the same age. Injury and age concerns for a long contract. It's worked out great for Edmonton and as the cap rises the last couple years won't be an issue if he slows down. I think most of us would take Hyman back in a heartbeat, even if he was only scoring 30 goals and not 50.

I'd be fine if the team signed him long-term to bring down the average. If injury concerns pop up again they'll have the LTIR and can go the way of Vegas at the TDL.

We have known for awhile now they're likely to take a step back next year with the last year of JT's contract. Assuming they don't lay eggs in the payoffs I'd prefer they keep two guys (Bertuzzi, Domi) who seem to have found their place on the team and are producing. They'll still have enough money to sign at least one decent dman.

They'll have to lean on the kids more next season to fill out the roster and then use the money from JT + salary cap increase to fill out the D more.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Bert might take the Hyman contract with a bit less average. This is his healthiest season in a few years.

The team was at a similar spot with Hyman at almost the same age. Injury and age concerns for a long contract. It's worked out great for Edmonton and as the cap rises the last couple years won't be an issue if he slows down. I think most of us would take Hyman back in a heartbeat, even if he was only scoring 30 goals and not 50.

I'd be fine if the team signed him long-term to bring down the average. If injury concerns pop up again they'll have the LTIR and can go the way of Vegas at the TDL.

We have known for awhile now they're likely to take a step back next year with the last year of JT's contract. Assuming they don't lay eggs in the payoffs I'd prefer they keep two guys (Bertuzzi, Domi) who seem to have found their place on the team and are producing. They'll still have enough money to sign at least one decent dman.

They'll have to lean on the kids more next season to fill out the roster and then use the money from JT + salary cap increase to fill out the D more.

Players (mostly their agents) that are wanted in the league, generally look at cap percentage these days, along with comparables. So Hyman signed for $5.5 million, which is what Bertuzzi is making now. At BEST Toronto gets him to extend at that price (I doubt they get 7 years), however, I wouldn't be shocked to see him want a number between $5.6 and $5.8 given that he's an FA and the cap is rising by $4+ million next year.

 

[mapleleaf979]

@5.5 million this season, Leafs did not get the value from him. He struggled for most of the year, he was decent in the playoffs but not a difference maker. He seemed somewhat aloof all year, didnt have the emotions he usually does. I would 100 percent let Bertuzzi walk, Knies can take over his role and Knies will have to be paid in a few years. Domi was more important to the Leafs in the playoffs, more of a factor and @ 3 million per, its much smarter to extend him.

 

[647Hockey]

@5.5 million this season, Leafs did not get the value from him. He struggled for most of the year, he was decent in the playoffs but not a difference maker. He seemed somewhat aloof all year, didnt have the emotions he usually does. I would 100 percent let Bertuzzi walk, Knies can take over his role and Knies will have to be paid in a few years. Domi was more important to the Leafs in the playoffs, more of a factor and @ 3 million per, its much smarter to extend him.

Bert did get 21G/43pts which is decent. At current market value, maybe that is about $5.5M worth.

The key thing about Bert is that if you prorate his stats every year to 80 games, he is about a 45-50 pt player, so what he did on Leafs is what you'll get. He had one giant year with 30g/62pts in only 68 games which was an outlier.

Is a 20g/45pt player with some grit for $5.5M worth keeping around? Maybe.

But key thing for people following stats is he isn't going to be a 30g/70pt player just because he's playing on a higher powered Leafs team than Red Wings in 2022.

 

[Craig Button]

Failed experiment.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Bertuzzi came here on a one year "show me" deal.

Hoping to pump up his value for a more lucrative contract after. He wasn't a complete disaster. But he didn't perform as well as I hoped he would.

The Leafs got the Bertuzzi-lite version of what he was advertised as.

He didn't punch as many faces as I hoped he would. He didn't score as many goals as I hoped he would. He didn't step up in the playoffs as I hoped he would.

For $5.5M Bertuzzi can go underwhelm on some other team.

It's like a fling I once had. It was fun while it lasted. But she was wanting Red Lobster while I was only offering Burger King.

The grass is always greener somewhere else when you're digging for gold.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Love the guy. One of the few players who went to the net and battled

 

[WilliamInLondon]

I love what Bertuzzi brought for 40% of the season and playoffs. The other 20% was decent and remaining 40% was bad. On the whole, I'd love to re-sign him, but realistically, I'd prefer Domi as an option.

It isn't just about preserving limited cap-space, but also roster space. Until the Tavares and Marner ballasts are jettisoned (or re-signed for significantly lower cap hits, esp. w/ Tavares), I think the Leafs are in a holding pattern of being a mid-tier playoff team. I just don't see how re-signing Bertuzzi, Domi, and trying to squeeze in a #3-4 defenceman while rolling with Woll is going to materially increase their odds. They'll have a puncher's chance in 2024-2025 but not a top-tier one irrespective of whether they have Bertuzzi or not.

Rather, I'd use next season to preserve the $4.5M-$6M per annum over the next 3-5 seasons (e.g. a Bertuzzi contract) to keep it in reserve for when this team is really ready to contend. Then I'd give extended burn to the following players to see what we've really got in them. A few are obvious keepers (*), but I'd like to see what we have in the others.

- Niemala
- Minten*
- Robertson
- Knies*
- Woll*
- Hirvonen
- Tverberg / Kokkonen / Abruzzese

The reason for this is that every team unfortunately lets good players slip through the cracks, and the Leafs are no different - but if you look at the ones that fell through in the Shanahan era, you can't help feel that it was because everything was front-loaded in the Big 4 and no room/chance was given for internal growth and prospects. Think of Patrick Marleau, Tyler Ennis, Joe Thornton, Wayne Simmonds, and Jason Spezza.

These were all depth guys who legitimately took up a roster spot that blocked the Leafs from giving guys like Dakota Joshua and Mason Marchment - or even minimum-wage roster players like Joey Anderson - a chance. Then there are a few trades that I'm sure the Leafs would love to have back - hindsight is obviously 20/20, but how many of us would still like to have Trevor Moore right now? He was a good college player who showed good glimpses in the Marlies. Sure, you have to give up talent to get talent, but it's hard to appraise the guy's full value when he was buried on the 4th line and healthy scratched for the better part of 2 seasons.

Even guys who are knocking on the doorstep like Alex Steeves and Nick Abruzzese, you kind of want to know next season - are they NHL players? If they are, you've basically filled 1/3rd of your bottom six for near minimum wage for 2-3 seasons and/or created valuable trade assets for when your cap is in a better position and you're ready to compete in 2025 and beyond. Bury them in the AHL again, and they could become another Joshua or Moore sold at 10 cents to the dollar to another team.

 

[hullsy47]

Imagine we give Domi/Bert matching $4.5m x 4 contracts or something like that. i can dream

3.5 for both im in

 

[Anthrax442]

I don't see how he is a 5.5 mil player again, but if he gets that, good for him. hopefully not from us, unless its another short deal 1 or 2 years.

 

[Bomber0104]

He was pretty good, somewhere in between a Hyman and a Bunting for us.

Probably going to cash in on a long-term deal elsewhere since that's the business model we have here in Toronto.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

I'd bring him back for 1 more playoff run with the core 4. Not sure if he's interested in another 1 year deal but I wouldn't throw a long term contract to him. When he falls off he's going to look terrible but right now he is a serviceable player and plays hard. I can see him getting 4 years x 6/7m from another team. He said to the media he's interested in running it back. Interesting to see what happens.

 

[Hugh Mongusbig]

He didn't punch as many faces as I hoped he would. He didn't score as many goals as I hoped he would. He didn't step up in the playoffs as I hoped he would.

For $5.5M Bertuzzi can go underwhelm on some other team.

When none of the core 4 are doing that, what makes you think Bert, making less than half the money that those guys make, should go out and do it for them?

When the leaders and highest paid players on the team aren't giving their all, what makes you think the lesser paid role players will?

as for the stepping up.... hmm
Bertuzzi $5.5M 1G 3A 4Pts 7g
Matthews $11.64M 1G 3A 4Pts 5g
Marner $10.9M 1G 2A 3pts 7g
Nylander $7M 3G 0A 3pts 4g
Tavares $11.0M 1G 1A 2Pts 7g

Bertuzzi scored as many or MORE THAN any of the core 4 players, while getting paid half as much.
he played physical every game and suited up for every game, again, while getting paid half as much!

and he underwhelmed you? LOL. Most of the core 4 were complete no shows for most of the games. Can't say the same for Burt and Domi.

The Leafs need more guys like Burt and Domi and less guys like Marner, Tavares, and Nylander, and even Matthews. (I'm not saying get rid of Matthews, that would be stupid)

You simply cannot win paying multiple (4!) guys top 10 player money while they ALL routinely devolve into maybe top 40 players come playoff time. Burt routinely scores more during the playoffs than he does during the regular season. The core 4 routinely score less during the playoffs than they do during the regular season. at $5.5M for what he brings, he's a bargain compared to what the Leafs have now. I don't know how you can look at it any other way.

I would resign both Burt and Domi in a second, but of course the problem is that the Leafs can't afford to do that because the 2 of the already overpaid core 4 are getting raises again next year!
The doubling down on this stupid has got to stop.

 

[CapspaceKiller]

I like Bertuzzi a lot and I hope they can figure something out, but he's going to asking for a pretty big sum here.

Something like: 5.5x7 or 6x6.

He didn't play like a 5.5m player this year. Closer to 4-4.5m.

Its why Domi's much more likely to be retained, he's asking for what he probably earned this year, 3.5m-4m.

I like Bertuzzi a lot, but I don't see him as a 5.5m/per player.

 

[Evilhomer]

Long, long gone. No reason for the Leafs to give him multiple years at the salary he will command.

 

[TMLAM34]

Would love to have Bertuzzi back. I wouldn’t be against giving him 5x5.

 

[DarkKnight]

Sounded pretty keen to return, not sure we can afford both he and Domi though.