Line Combos: Two Right Handed Defensemen: Are the Leafs better in terms of their defense now?
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FelixPotvin29
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LeafingTheWay
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Key words: Patience.
If it were up to Leaf fans, Muzzin would've been traded in the summer.
If it were up to Leaf fans, Muzzin would've been traded in the summer.
Stephen
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The obsession of having RHD implies a certain kind of balance on defense, but what we really need more than anything else are calming, stabilizing defensemen who can slow down the play to make the right decisions with the puck, be able to absorb a forecheck while turning the play up the ice with some control.
I understand the Leafs game plan is to speed up the game, but they need to slow down the game so they can transition the puck up the ice with a little more precision than they have for the past 1.5 years. Editing out the stretch pass is a good thing. But they need defensemen who can regroup, slow down the pace, absorb a forecheck, look for the short pass to the winger picking up speed. They can't Hail Mary every possession no matter what LHD RHD combination they have.
I understand the Leafs game plan is to speed up the game, but they need to slow down the game so they can transition the puck up the ice with a little more precision than they have for the past 1.5 years. Editing out the stretch pass is a good thing. But they need defensemen who can regroup, slow down the pace, absorb a forecheck, look for the short pass to the winger picking up speed. They can't Hail Mary every possession no matter what LHD RHD combination they have.
LeafChief
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DarkKnight
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Barrie makes Gardiner look like Lidstrom to date. Totally downgrade defensively, with less offence.
He reeeaaaallyyy needs to pick it up.
He reeeaaaallyyy needs to pick it up.
Ceci has been fine and I'm sick of having to point that out.
Barrie is the more interesting dman.
Was looking through the stats and is he just getting very unlucky this year?
I've been hard on him but he has good posession and scoring chance differentials and he also leads the entire Leafs D for shots on goal and is 15th in the league for all dman who have played 200 minutes (138 total)
His shot number/60?
6.66
I think he'll break out of it soon enough. Can only Jason Blake for so long before one goes in.
Barrie is the more interesting dman.
Was looking through the stats and is he just getting very unlucky this year?
I've been hard on him but he has good posession and scoring chance differentials and he also leads the entire Leafs D for shots on goal and is 15th in the league for all dman who have played 200 minutes (138 total)
His shot number/60?
6.66
I think he'll break out of it soon enough. Can only Jason Blake for so long before one goes in.
ottomaddox
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Buds17
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- Nov 29, 2015
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Two RHD, but one (Barrie) is arguably replacing one of the LHD that left the team (Gardiner). Ceci is replacing the role vacated by either of Hainsey or Zaitsev. I had hoped for a bit more offensively from Barrie thus far. I think Ceci has at least done well defensively in comparison to the rest of the blueline, and even enough of the team.
Hainsey was effective in his role over two seasons as a Leaf, and I'd say the new additions require more time to assess the impacts each will have on the team. Of course, when considering pending UFA status, it's possible that neither Barrie nor Ceci will be Leafs beyond this season regardless of how things transpire one way or another.
Hainsey was effective in his role over two seasons as a Leaf, and I'd say the new additions require more time to assess the impacts each will have on the team. Of course, when considering pending UFA status, it's possible that neither Barrie nor Ceci will be Leafs beyond this season regardless of how things transpire one way or another.
Oh, I agree as he was brought here to produce and not fail but let's give it a little more time....
Look, Im firmly standing behind the players on this one.
Im well aware of the shortcoming of certain players and who we rolled the dice on and ect, ect.
But I dont look much past our forward group to firmly say that our players are not being utilized to the best of their abilities. They are being FORCED to play a very specific system regardless of outcome or opposition. There isnt anybody alive that can convince me otherwise on that point now. We have played the same systems now into our fourth year regardless of coaching changes or player changes. At first we were a bottom place team and nobody seemed to care but as we got better other teams started looking at actual ways to shut down the high powered offense and once they figured out something decent we've been getting pushed around and stuffed all over the place.
The fact that our offensive is SO GOOD is what has kept us alive all this time, as well combined with Anderson when he is really on his game. There are teams with far worse lineups that control the game and work hard for 60min and only lose because they dont have the game breakers. Every time we bring in a new player they look a very different way from game 1-5 as they do 15 games in because they are being forced into something they dont excel at. I'm just sick of the whole thing at this point.
Babcock is a megalomaniac and he has lost his team and its causing me to actually hate watching them play.
Im well aware of the shortcoming of certain players and who we rolled the dice on and ect, ect.
But I dont look much past our forward group to firmly say that our players are not being utilized to the best of their abilities. They are being FORCED to play a very specific system regardless of outcome or opposition. There isnt anybody alive that can convince me otherwise on that point now. We have played the same systems now into our fourth year regardless of coaching changes or player changes. At first we were a bottom place team and nobody seemed to care but as we got better other teams started looking at actual ways to shut down the high powered offense and once they figured out something decent we've been getting pushed around and stuffed all over the place.
The fact that our offensive is SO GOOD is what has kept us alive all this time, as well combined with Anderson when he is really on his game. There are teams with far worse lineups that control the game and work hard for 60min and only lose because they dont have the game breakers. Every time we bring in a new player they look a very different way from game 1-5 as they do 15 games in because they are being forced into something they dont excel at. I'm just sick of the whole thing at this point.
Babcock is a megalomaniac and he has lost his team and its causing me to actually hate watching them play.
Rogue Leader
Registered User
I miss Hainsey. I still trust in Zaitsev. I love Muzzin. I hate Barrie. I have faith in Holl. Dermott warms my heart. Marincin breaks it. That's how I feel. 
Jason Blake was surprisingly good as a Leaf.. got really unlucky at points and never really was a 40 goal scorer but he was much better than I remember my eyes telling me.
I miss Hainsey. I still trust in Zaitsev. I love Muzzin. I hate Barrie. I have faith in Holl. Dermott warms my heart. Marincin breaks it. That's how I feel.
Connor Brown is the only player you should miss from that trade. Hainsey and Zaitsev have been horrible in Ottawa.
Hainsey is down almost 3 full minutes a game from last year and is still horrible.
Rogue Leader
Registered User
That's true, but the Sens are a swamp - once you get there it's not going to get better. I would really have liked to see them on another avarage / above-avarage team. I have watched Zaitsev since he was a little boy in the KHL. I think Babcock's system somehow ruined him. You can not believe how much potential he had / has if unlocked.
Somehow his offense completely dried up here and we never saw that good shot and offensive flair that he had in Russia. Something changed for sure.That's true, but the Sens are a swamp - once you get there it's not going to get better. I would really have liked to see them on another avarage / above-avarage team. I have watched Zaitsev since he was a little boy in the KHL. I think Babcock's system somehow ruined him. You can not believe how much potential he had / has if unlocked.
I miss Hainsey. I still trust in Zaitsev. I love Muzzin. I hate Barrie. I have faith in Holl. Dermott warms my heart. Marincin breaks it. That's how I feel.
Holl has really suprised me with his play.
He should be on the 3rd pair for the rest of the season and next yr.
To me Holl is no worse than Ceci right know
He has size and jam to his game. The more he plays the more confident he gets.
Was hoping Ceci would be a physical dman
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Did people just completely forget last year in their delusional rants about how the current team is the worst team in the history of mankind because they went 7-5-3 through the toughest part of the season?
Ceci has been an upgrade on Hainsey, who has continued to deteriorate.
Barrie has been an upgrade on Zaitsev, who has looked horrible in Ottawa.
Having balanced pairings helps to keep the puck in the offensive zone, and we have been doing a lot more D to D passes this year.
The bigger impact has been because Rielly has been playing injured and struggling, Dermott has been injured almost the whole season, and Muzzin just got injured when Dermott came back. We don't have much past the main 6 D.
And the biggest issue of all by far, goalies that couldn't stop a beach ball all October.
This system is built to push the pace and have the D pinch along the side boards to keep the puck in, but I've noticed that when we get scored on, which for most of the season has been pretty darn early, we have a patch where we get nervous and don't trust our goaltending, and back off on the pressure. That just completely throws the system out of whack.
Ironically, all of the fan and media pressure about defense is probably making our defense worse.
Ceci has been an upgrade on Hainsey, who has continued to deteriorate.
Barrie has been an upgrade on Zaitsev, who has looked horrible in Ottawa.
Having balanced pairings helps to keep the puck in the offensive zone, and we have been doing a lot more D to D passes this year.
The bigger impact has been because Rielly has been playing injured and struggling, Dermott has been injured almost the whole season, and Muzzin just got injured when Dermott came back. We don't have much past the main 6 D.
And the biggest issue of all by far, goalies that couldn't stop a beach ball all October.
This system is built to push the pace and have the D pinch along the side boards to keep the puck in, but I've noticed that when we get scored on, which for most of the season has been pretty darn early, we have a patch where we get nervous and don't trust our goaltending, and back off on the pressure. That just completely throws the system out of whack.
Ironically, all of the fan and media pressure about defense is probably making our defense worse.
BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Not sure when we acquired Ceci if anyone thought we'd be getting anything more than what we've seen.
Barrie's underperformed to his capabilities but I'd give him some time to keeping adjusting.
The Toronto market's always been harsh on d-men to begin with so that doesn't help matters either.
Barrie's underperformed to his capabilities but I'd give him some time to keeping adjusting.
The Toronto market's always been harsh on d-men to begin with so that doesn't help matters either.
Next yr
Reilly.
Muzzin. Sandin
Dermot. Holl
I think sandin is smart enough to play right d
He has the offence to replace Barrie
Maybe they should try him on the right side on the Marlies this yr
Holl really liking his game
We need a dman to play with Rielly
A stay at home physical dman
Reilly.
Muzzin. Sandin
Dermot. Holl
I think sandin is smart enough to play right d
He has the offence to replace Barrie
Maybe they should try him on the right side on the Marlies this yr
Holl really liking his game
We need a dman to play with Rielly
A stay at home physical dman
moon111
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- Oct 18, 2014
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There's two things fans should get from a player in Ceci's role. 1. You didn't notice him. 2. He made a mistake.
If you noticed him in five games, then perhaps that's 10 games he absolutely did his job to perfection.
He's also playing with practically four forwards so it's a tough job being one of the last lines of defense.
But he's the top +/- player on the team, so something overall is working.
If you noticed him in five games, then perhaps that's 10 games he absolutely did his job to perfection.
He's also playing with practically four forwards so it's a tough job being one of the last lines of defense.
But he's the top +/- player on the team, so something overall is working.
rumman
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- Sep 10, 2008
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Blake was a master at skating around like the rink was the Daytona 500 on ice, but did little else for the Leafs.
Mugzy97
#StandWitness
I don't miss Hainsey or Zaitsev at all. Barrie is definitely an upgrade and I feel like when he gets adjusted he'll start showing his worth. Ceci isn't bad but he's really a #5D. We still need another top 4 RHD.
Ceci's been fine, we're asking him to do a lot and he's struggling to keep his head above water but getting the job done for the most part. I'd love to see him with Muzzin and Rielly with a different partner, with both pairs fulling sharing the matchup load.
Barrie- was a means to an end in terms of getting a high quality RHD on a cheap contract but he's not really a fit. Maybe he puts it together as a the season goes on. Can't help but wonder how different things would be if Naz doesn't balk at western Canada and we running
Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Ceci
Barrie- was a means to an end in terms of getting a high quality RHD on a cheap contract but he's not really a fit. Maybe he puts it together as a the season goes on. Can't help but wonder how different things would be if Naz doesn't balk at western Canada and we running
Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Ceci
ACC1224
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