Value of: Turris

ETTHAKING67

Registered User
Feb 12, 2019
454
216
I have really no idea so don't roast me for my next question but can he play as a winger ?
 

BLNY

Registered User
Aug 3, 2004
6,717
4,711
Dartmouth, NS
No interest in NYR acquiring but if it comes up in context of any other discussions, what is general consensus of value re: cost vs. production.
Esp wanna hear from Preds' fans.

thanks in adv
Less than nil. They're going to have to pay to get rid of him.
 

Porter Stoutheart

We Got Wood
Jun 14, 2017
14,927
11,329
First I will paint a very small picture of what we saw from 3 seasons of Turris in Nashville:

---
2017-18 - He was basically everything we were looking for in a #2C. The trade looked good. The contract extension looked good. He was consistently used at C, had consistent wingers in Fiala and Smith, and got decent PP time. He went a little invisible in the last month and playoffs though, which had a few of us on his case.

2018-19 - His numbers went way down and he looked more tentative on the ice than ever. Utilization was still fair for him, at least up to the point where his performance simply dictated that he be shuffled back at times. What we didn't really know until it came out later was that in addition to the time he missed with a middle-body injury, he tried to play with a broken foot, had it re-broken, and tried to play again, and basically it became evident that it was fair to write the season off due to his injuries.

2019-20 - Although Turris was back healthy and seemed to be coming off a bit of a reasonable showing in the WC, we signed Duchene so suddenly Turris had no spot in the lineup. He seemed to have all his usual speed and skill back at his disposal, but he just never settled into a role. He's not a primary driver on a line, so when you play him on the 4th line, he's not going to produce. He is not a physical player and seemed to struggle to adjust to playing on the wing. He never developed any chemistry with Duchene or Granlund. He got healthy scratched for a stretch of games by Laviolette. Mostly just as the odd-man out when Laviolette was flailing trying to find a solution. He got to play more in more situations and bumped his numbers up a bit under Hynes, but still didn't really have a consistent line or get to play center all the time.
----

So it's a relatively small sample, but my combination of Year 1 viewing of how Turris performed well within his "comfort zone" and the Year 3 viewing of how I thought he looked completely physically capable of contributing the same way but was just held back by a lack of fit in the lineup has led me to formulate this theory on him:

He has a good mix of offensive skills and can play on a #2 scoring line in the NHL. He benefits from having consistent linemates and utilization and at least 2nd unit PP time. He does not engage physically so benefits from playing center with at least one winger who will work in the dirty areas. His big drawback is that he just doesn't seem to be versatile enough to contribute when shifted to the wing or when playing with less talented players on lower lines. He did kill penalties well for us for a time under Hynes, but I wouldn't normally have considered that to be a particular strength of his. He's not strong on faceoffs.

Does it add up to being worth $6M? You'd have to be pretty desperate for that very specific narrow niche that he fills at #2C for him to be worth that to your team. We were in exactly that position of desperation when we acquired him. But he has quickly become redundant now that we don't need him in that narrow stereotypical #2C role anymore. At $4-5M I think he'd be a better investment. And I think the Preds would recognize that and be willing to retain something in the $1-2M range on him in a trade.

I'm pretty sure the Preds would not pay a high draft pick to dump him or buy him out, however. He's just not bad enough for that. Even if he's used in an auxiliary role like last season, or struggles on the wing, he is a decent NHL player and brings some skill to our lineup. He's also a reasonable insurance policy against injuries to Johansen or Duchene for us, because we can be confident that he can immediately replace most of their offense, if not any other parts of their game. So I can't see us paying a high pick or anything just to move him. We are not projecting to have any cap issues, so there just isn't a strong motivation for us to go to that extreme.

The kind of trade I would see is where we trade him for some other team's redundant large contract. We need wingers and depth on D. If there's a team out there who needs a C, then maybe there is a swap that works for both teams. Some trade ideas previously explored along these lines:

Florida - something involving Matheson
Edmonton - for James Neal
Buffalo - we hatched an idea of Miller for Turris ($1.175M retained) + 3rd

If we failed to find a trade along those lines that worked for both teams, I think we would just keep Turris and revisit things next year.
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
27,765
3,759
Da Big Apple
First I will paint a very small picture of what we saw from 3 seasons of Turris in Nashville:

---
2017-18 - He was basically everything we were looking for in a #2C. The trade looked good. The contract extension looked good. He was consistently used at C, had consistent wingers in Fiala and Smith, and got decent PP time. He went a little invisible in the last month and playoffs though, which had a few of us on his case.

2018-19 - His numbers went way down and he looked more tentative on the ice than ever. Utilization was still fair for him, at least up to the point where his performance simply dictated that he be shuffled back at times. What we didn't really know until it came out later was that in addition to the time he missed with a middle-body injury, he tried to play with a broken foot, had it re-broken, and tried to play again, and basically it became evident that it was fair to write the season off due to his injuries.

2019-20 - Although Turris was back healthy and seemed to be coming off a bit of a reasonable showing in the WC, we signed Duchene so suddenly Turris had no spot in the lineup. He seemed to have all his usual speed and skill back at his disposal, but he just never settled into a role. He's not a primary driver on a line, so when you play him on the 4th line, he's not going to produce. He is not a physical player and seemed to struggle to adjust to playing on the wing. He never developed any chemistry with Duchene or Granlund. He got healthy scratched for a stretch of games by Laviolette. Mostly just as the odd-man out when Laviolette was flailing trying to find a solution. He got to play more in more situations and bumped his numbers up a bit under Hynes, but still didn't really have a consistent line or get to play center all the time.
----

So it's a relatively small sample, but my combination of Year 1 viewing of how Turris performed well within his "comfort zone" and the Year 3 viewing of how I thought he looked completely physically capable of contributing the same way but was just held back by a lack of fit in the lineup has led me to formulate this theory on him:

He has a good mix of offensive skills and can play on a #2 scoring line in the NHL. He benefits from having consistent linemates and utilization and at least 2nd unit PP time. He does not engage physically so benefits from playing center with at least one winger who will work in the dirty areas. His big drawback is that he just doesn't seem to be versatile enough to contribute when shifted to the wing or when playing with less talented players on lower lines. He did kill penalties well for us for a time under Hynes, but I wouldn't normally have considered that to be a particular strength of his. He's not strong on faceoffs.

Does it add up to being worth $6M? You'd have to be pretty desperate for that very specific narrow niche that he fills at #2C for him to be worth that to your team. We were in exactly that position of desperation when we acquired him. But he has quickly become redundant now that we don't need him in that narrow stereotypical #2C role anymore. At $4-5M I think he'd be a better investment. And I think the Preds would recognize that and be willing to retain something in the $1-2M range on him in a trade.

I'm pretty sure the Preds would not pay a high draft pick to dump him or buy him out, however. He's just not bad enough for that. Even if he's used in an auxiliary role like last season, or struggles on the wing, he is a decent NHL player and brings some skill to our lineup. He's also a reasonable insurance policy against injuries to Johansen or Duchene for us, because we can be confident that he can immediately replace most of their offense, if not any other parts of their game. So I can't see us paying a high pick or anything just to move him. We are not projecting to have any cap issues, so there just isn't a strong motivation for us to go to that extreme.

The kind of trade I would see is where we trade him for some other team's redundant large contract. We need wingers and depth on D. If there's a team out there who needs a C, then maybe there is a swap that works for both teams. Some trade ideas previously explored along these lines:

Florida - something involving Matheson
Edmonton - for James Neal
Buffalo - we hatched an idea of Miller for Turris ($1.175M retained) + 3rd

If we failed to find a trade along those lines that worked for both teams, I think we would just keep Turris and revisit things next year.

Thank you.
This was the kind of fully informative detail I was hoping for.
Very constructive, lots of insight.
 

Archie Lee

Registered User
Apr 13, 2018
518
560
As a Sabres fan, I have thought since the WC's last year that Skinner / Turris / Reinhart would be a strong second line.
 

TheDawnOfANewTage

Dahlin, it’ll all be fine
Dec 17, 2018
12,305
17,948
First I will paint a very small picture of what we saw from 3 seasons of Turris in Nashville:

---
2017-18 - He was basically everything we were looking for in a #2C. The trade looked good. The contract extension looked good. He was consistently used at C, had consistent wingers in Fiala and Smith, and got decent PP time. He went a little invisible in the last month and playoffs though, which had a few of us on his case.

2018-19 - His numbers went way down and he looked more tentative on the ice than ever. Utilization was still fair for him, at least up to the point where his performance simply dictated that he be shuffled back at times. What we didn't really know until it came out later was that in addition to the time he missed with a middle-body injury, he tried to play with a broken foot, had it re-broken, and tried to play again, and basically it became evident that it was fair to write the season off due to his injuries.

2019-20 - Although Turris was back healthy and seemed to be coming off a bit of a reasonable showing in the WC, we signed Duchene so suddenly Turris had no spot in the lineup. He seemed to have all his usual speed and skill back at his disposal, but he just never settled into a role. He's not a primary driver on a line, so when you play him on the 4th line, he's not going to produce. He is not a physical player and seemed to struggle to adjust to playing on the wing. He never developed any chemistry with Duchene or Granlund. He got healthy scratched for a stretch of games by Laviolette. Mostly just as the odd-man out when Laviolette was flailing trying to find a solution. He got to play more in more situations and bumped his numbers up a bit under Hynes, but still didn't really have a consistent line or get to play center all the time.
----

So it's a relatively small sample, but my combination of Year 1 viewing of how Turris performed well within his "comfort zone" and the Year 3 viewing of how I thought he looked completely physically capable of contributing the same way but was just held back by a lack of fit in the lineup has led me to formulate this theory on him:

He has a good mix of offensive skills and can play on a #2 scoring line in the NHL. He benefits from having consistent linemates and utilization and at least 2nd unit PP time. He does not engage physically so benefits from playing center with at least one winger who will work in the dirty areas. His big drawback is that he just doesn't seem to be versatile enough to contribute when shifted to the wing or when playing with less talented players on lower lines. He did kill penalties well for us for a time under Hynes, but I wouldn't normally have considered that to be a particular strength of his. He's not strong on faceoffs.

Does it add up to being worth $6M? You'd have to be pretty desperate for that very specific narrow niche that he fills at #2C for him to be worth that to your team. We were in exactly that position of desperation when we acquired him. But he has quickly become redundant now that we don't need him in that narrow stereotypical #2C role anymore. At $4-5M I think he'd be a better investment. And I think the Preds would recognize that and be willing to retain something in the $1-2M range on him in a trade.

I'm pretty sure the Preds would not pay a high draft pick to dump him or buy him out, however. He's just not bad enough for that. Even if he's used in an auxiliary role like last season, or struggles on the wing, he is a decent NHL player and brings some skill to our lineup. He's also a reasonable insurance policy against injuries to Johansen or Duchene for us, because we can be confident that he can immediately replace most of their offense, if not any other parts of their game. So I can't see us paying a high pick or anything just to move him. We are not projecting to have any cap issues, so there just isn't a strong motivation for us to go to that extreme.

The kind of trade I would see is where we trade him for some other team's redundant large contract. We need wingers and depth on D. If there's a team out there who needs a C, then maybe there is a swap that works for both teams. Some trade ideas previously explored along these lines:

Florida - something involving Matheson
Edmonton - for James Neal
Buffalo - we hatched an idea of Miller for Turris ($1.175M retained) + 3rd

If we failed to find a trade along those lines that worked for both teams, I think we would just keep Turris and revisit things next year.

What’s funny is I kinda wonder how he’d work with Okposo in Buffalo.. that can’t happen if we just trade their bad contracts for one another.

I am wondering if he might be our answer at 2c though, basically because of what you said- I went from thinking he was cooked to thinking he just needs the right situation to return to relevance. He’s far from ideal, but Sabres talk seems to focus on Monahan, and I hate that idea so damned much. Just feels like it’d be similar to signing Turris at his peak only to watch him disappoint, Monahan is frustrating even when in the best scenario possible, so to have him come in and try to drive our second line.. don’t wanna pay for that shitshow.

So anyways, any Preds fans wanna opine what Buffalo would have to give up? I feel like it could be a pure roster dump, but if that’s the case does Nashville just keep him? You want a McCabe? Please?
 
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GoldOnGold

Registered User
Mar 27, 2016
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Nashville, Tennessee
What’s funny is I kinda wonder how he’d work with Okposo in Buffalo.. that can’t happen if we just trade their bad contracts for one another.

I am wondering if he might be our answer at 2c though, basically because of what you said- I went from thinking he was cooked to thinking he just needs the right situation to return to relevance. He’s far from ideal, but Sabres talk seems to focus on Monahan, and I hate that idea so damned much. Just feels like it’d be similar to signing Turris at his peak only to watch him disappoint, Monahan is frustrating even when in the best scenario possible, so to have him come in and try to drive our second line.. don’t wanna pay for that shitshow.

So anyways, any Preds fans wanna opine what Buffalo would have to give up? I feel like it could be a pure roster dump, but if that’s the case does Nashville just keep him? You want a McCabe? Please?

It would be pretty cheap. We've discussed a swap of Turris for Miller with some of Turris's salary retained, but if you want to give up McCabe instead we'd probably like that even more lol
 

Porter Stoutheart

We Got Wood
Jun 14, 2017
14,927
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It would be pretty cheap. We've discussed a swap of Turris for Miller with some of Turris's salary retained, but if you want to give up McCabe instead we'd probably like that even more lol
Yeah, give us McCabe or Miller, we're not picky, we'll retain a little to bring Turris' cap hit down to $4.5M-$5M for you, and we're all good.
 

TheDawnOfANewTage

Dahlin, it’ll all be fine
Dec 17, 2018
12,305
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It would be pretty cheap. We've discussed a swap of Turris for Miller with some of Turris's salary retained, but if you want to give up McCabe instead we'd probably like that even more lol

Haha ya not sure exactly what’s fair but McCabe is my own personal bugaboo- if they could manage to make Turris’ cap hit reasonable I’d love to see him as our 2c until Cozens is hopefully ready.

..but I feel like Sabres are gonna trade multiple pieces for Monahan and I won’t be able to post afterwards due to a rage-broken computer, so we’ll see.
 
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Porter Stoutheart

We Got Wood
Jun 14, 2017
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Turris' contract is longer and more expensive than Neals. I think Edmonton will pass easily.
Turris is also a better player, though, and a center. It is one of those situations where we'd feel like we were creeping out on thin ice as it was to consider that swap... but we'd still do it because... as fans we're not too bright and once upon a time Neal was pretty good for us. Maybe there is even a donut frozen in the middle of that thin ice, who knows, right? Mmm, donuts!!!! But inevitably it would crack and we'd take a cold swim instead. So I think in that scenario, while the idea (and the possibility of a frozen donut) gets us to the table, we are certainly not going to be disappointed if that one is snatched off the table instead. It ultimately just works out to protecting us from our own impulsiveness.
:thumbu:
 
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TFHockey

The CEO of 7-8-0
May 16, 2014
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Edmonton
Turris is also a better player, though, and a center. It is one of those situations where we'd feel like we were creeping out on thin ice as it was to consider that swap... but we'd still do it because... as fans we're not too bright and once upon a time Neal was pretty good for us. Maybe there is even a donut frozen in the middle of that thin ice, who knows, right? Mmm, donuts!!!! But inevitably it would crack and we'd take a cold swim instead. So I think in that scenario, while the idea (and the possibility of a frozen donut) gets us to the table, we are certainly not going to be disappointed if that one is snatched off the table instead. It ultimately just works out to protecting us from our own impulsiveness.
:thumbu:

Also, the Oilers don't need a $6 Million dollar 3C. Just ain't in the cards, man.
 

IranCondraAffair

Registered User
Mar 10, 2006
9,258
3,956
I know what I would do if I was the Nashville GM.

Turris buyout:

Cost: 16M.
Cap hit: 2M over 8 years.
Zero Return

Turris trade @ 50%:

Cost 12M
Cap hit: 3M over 4 years.
Good chance of a solid return.
 

Porter Stoutheart

We Got Wood
Jun 14, 2017
14,927
11,329
What’s funny is I kinda wonder how he’d work with Okposo in Buffalo.. that can’t happen if we just trade their bad contracts for one another.

I am wondering if he might be our answer at 2c though, basically because of what you said- I went from thinking he was cooked to thinking he just needs the right situation to return to relevance. He’s far from ideal, but Sabres talk seems to focus on Monahan, and I hate that idea so damned much. Just feels like it’d be similar to signing Turris at his peak only to watch him disappoint, Monahan is frustrating even when in the best scenario possible, so to have him come in and try to drive our second line.. don’t wanna pay for that shitshow.

So anyways, any Preds fans wanna opine what Buffalo would have to give up? I feel like it could be a pure roster dump, but if that’s the case does Nashville just keep him? You want a McCabe? Please?
Yeah, Turris is not "cooked" at all. But that's not to say he doesn't have warts. He does look pretty frustrated out there that he just can't seem to connect with Duchene especially. I can see how it is tough for him... he thought he had found his Forever Home in the trade to Nashville, and then basically it all fell apart and he became a nomad as Duchene swooped in and was given his job. For all that, Turris has seemed to put on a good face publicly and not expressed the frustrations he must be harboring.

Still, if he could have somehow found a way to contribute to our team as a winger or done something else besides having a cushy gift-wrapped #2C gig handed to him on a silver platter... he could have solved his own problems to some extent. It's not like very many of our other forwards have been shooting the lights out either in recent times. Somebody who stepped up big might have been able to steal a job, especially after the coaching change. But he still just ultimately needs help from his linemates to really stand out. And if the chemistry isn't there, he becomes fairly useless.

I think the points he got in the WC with Mantha were illustrative. He'll support a good winger who is really the one carrying the load, and he won't look out of place doing it. But whether it was Mantha in that tourney, or Stone back in his Sens days, it's really the winger who is the main thing. Turris is perfectly capable of being complementary to that player, he skates well and has good offensive zone intelligence, but at the end of the day he's not doing much on his own.

For all I write about him around here, you wouldn't know it, but I really don't like him as a player. Just because a player has some skill and can put up some points in the right situation doesn't mean I'll like him. He's ultimately just too soft for me. But I can definitely see him getting 50+ points in the right situation, and he's not physically cooked by any stretch. Still not a player I'd actively want on my team, though, if I was really trying to build an ideal lineup. He could score 60 points and it wouldn't shock me, but it would still leave me perpetually wanting an upgrade.
 

TheDawnOfANewTage

Dahlin, it’ll all be fine
Dec 17, 2018
12,305
17,948
Yeah, Turris is not "cooked" at all. But that's not to say he doesn't have warts. He does look pretty frustrated out there that he just can't seem to connect with Duchene especially. I can see how it is tough for him... he thought he had found his Forever Home in the trade to Nashville, and then basically it all fell apart and he became a nomad as Duchene swooped in and was given his job. For all that, Turris has seemed to put on a good face publicly and not expressed the frustrations he must be harboring.

Still, if he could have somehow found a way to contribute to our team as a winger or done something else besides having a cushy gift-wrapped #2C gig handed to him on a silver platter... he could have solved his own problems to some extent. It's not like very many of our other forwards have been shooting the lights out either in recent times. Somebody who stepped up big might have been able to steal a job, especially after the coaching change. But he still just ultimately needs help from his linemates to really stand out. And if the chemistry isn't there, he becomes fairly useless.

I think the points he got in the WC with Mantha were illustrative. He'll support a good winger who is really the one carrying the load, and he won't look out of place doing it. But whether it was Mantha in that tourney, or Stone back in his Sens days, it's really the winger who is the main thing. Turris is perfectly capable of being complementary to that player, he skates well and has good offensive zone intelligence, but at the end of the day he's not doing much on his own.

For all I write about him around here, you wouldn't know it, but I really don't like him as a player. Just because a player has some skill and can put up some points in the right situation doesn't mean I'll like him. He's ultimately just too soft for me. But I can definitely see him getting 50+ points in the right situation, and he's not physically cooked by any stretch. Still not a player I'd actively want on my team, though, if I was really trying to build an ideal lineup. He could score 60 points and it wouldn't shock me, but it would still leave me perpetually wanting an upgrade.

Yep, that’s pretty much why I’m interested in him as a low price option- see if he works with Skinner and we can work on the rest of our roster from there. He has warts but so do the Sabres, And it feels like a lotta my fellow Sabres fans see Monahan as the cure-all- I just see him as Turris before the decline is all. We’d be bringing in a not great fit who needs a specific situation to succeed, and if we’re going that route we should just save the disappointment and go with the end product we woulda ended up with, anyways, which is Turris. Monahan probably brings a bit more to the table (ok a good bit more) but I just wouldn’t be shocked if Monahan is a 45-50 point 2c, Turris a 40 point 2c, were they on the Sabres.

Totally dig that last point though, it’s why I hated Pominville’s play for years. Dude finished what his teammates gave him, didn’t f*** up the offense, and that was it. Complete perimeter player, no D, no physicality, but he’d score 60 points if you gave him good linemates. If it were acknowledged that’s all he does, fine, but he earned money and praise like a real line driver and it’s like, nah man, he is the lettuce of the score burger. He just there. /Poms rant.
 
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Porter Stoutheart

We Got Wood
Jun 14, 2017
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Also, the Oilers don't need a $6 Million dollar 3C. Just ain't in the cards, man.
May you enjoy your $5.75M... whatever Neal is. Although of course you are just 1 fan. Other Oilers fans have expressed a different opinion. Ultimately I don't think either real NHL GM is going after that frozen donut. Neither of them would be willing to risk the optics of going through the ice and looking even dumber on those two players. Neal is too slow for the modern NHL and Turris would look like garbage on a 3rd line with Khaira, Kassian, or Chiasson or other foot soldiers like that on his wings. I don't recommend the trade for either side. I merely state that it has been discussed and some fans at some times have endorsed it. It's an example of the kind of trade Nashville fans could at least consider. Ultimately most would reject. But at least consider. Based on other threads, same goes for some Oilers fans.
 

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