Turncoats in International Hockey

Pushkin*

Guest
What about Gretzky-Belarus Sakic-Croatia Iginla-Nigeria Lindros-Greece
 

Den

Registered User
Aug 9, 2005
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Stockholm
www.recdir.com
and there is very interesting history of this area from XVIII century till our days..

:naughty: You know that 5 or so years ago they arrested a bunch of Russians in North Kazakhstan who where preparing a coup d'etat with the goal of unification with Russia. :naughty: Can't even imagine how that could have been carried out ...
 

VladNYC*

Guest
I'm definitely no expert when it comes to Eastern European geography, but Kamenogorski, Kazachstan sounds like it's in Kazakhstan and not Russia.

You are no expert in geography period. Kazakhstan is in Asia, not in Eastern Europe.
 

VladNYC*

Guest
Well, usually being born in a country equates to being from that country, no? .

Only works that way in the west.

If your Ukrainian parents gave birth to you in China, does that make you Chinese? You are confused because in Canada/America there is no such ethnicity as Canadian or American. You are confusing ethnicity with citizenship.

I was born in Moldova, i am in no way Moldavian. I don't speak the language, my ancestors aren't Moldavian. Palestinians who were born in Israel aren't Israelis and Jews born in Germany aren't Germans, they are still jews. In the soviet union where there are literally hundreds of ethnicities, residency doesn't weigh on your ethnicity. Chechens aren't Russians. Russians in the baltics aren't Estonian or Lithuanians etc.
 

Jazz

Registered User
Only works that way in the west.

If your Ukrainian parents gave birth to you in China, does that make you Chinese? You are confused because in Canada/America there is no such ethnicity as Canadian or American. You are confusing ethnicity with citizenship.

I was born in Moldova, i am in no way Moldavian. I don't speak the language, my ancestors aren't Moldavian. Palestinians who were born in Israel aren't Israelis and Jews born in Germany aren't Germans, they are still jews. In the soviet union where there are literally hundreds of ethnicities, residency doesn't weigh on your ethnicity. Chechens aren't Russians. Russians in the baltics aren't Estonian or Lithuanians etc.
Now you are mixing up a religious group with ethnicity.
 

hdw

Registered User
Jul 9, 2006
6,479
0
Stockholm
Well, usually being born in a country equates to being from that country, no?

Yes and no.
Different countries have different rules.

Nationality most often derives from place of birth (i.e. jus soli) and, in some cases, ethnicity (i.e. jus sanguinis). Citizenship derives from a legal relationship with a state. Citizenship can be lost, as in denaturalization, and gained, as in naturalization.
From Wikipedia

And it's get even more complicated when you have national states form, reform and deform under your feet.
 

VladNYC*

Guest
Now you are mixing up a religious group with ethnicity.

Jew is an ethnicity and a religion. Ashkenazi Jew is the ethnicity of Jews from Europe. I am half Jewish my self, trust me.
 

I Ron Butterfly

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Jan 6, 2007
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Only works that way in the west.

If your Ukrainian parents gave birth to you in China, does that make you Chinese? You are confused because in Canada/America there is no such ethnicity as Canadian or American. You are confusing ethnicity with citizenship.

I was born in Moldova, i am in no way Moldavian. I don't speak the language, my ancestors aren't Moldavian. Palestinians who were born in Israel aren't Israelis and Jews born in Germany aren't Germans, they are still jews. In the soviet union where there are literally hundreds of ethnicities, residency doesn't weigh on your ethnicity. Chechens aren't Russians. Russians in the baltics aren't Estonian or Lithuanians etc.

Well this is a tournament pitting nations against each other, not ethnicities, which was my original point as to how Canada would have only Chris Simon and Jordin Tootoo if that were the case.
 

Larionov

Registered User
Feb 9, 2005
4,394
2,085
Ottawa, ON
Adam Deadmarsh and Brett Hull were both born in Canada but played for the US.


Both of them were not only born in Canada, but grew up in Canada, and received all of their hockey training here. Hull's mother is an American, hence his ability to qualify for dual citizenship, and I believe Deadmarsh was in the same situation, i.e. one American parent, thus qualifying him for dual citizenship. Both were also ticked off at not getting invites to Team Canada camps early in their careers, hence the defection to the U.S. side.
 

Sanderson

Registered User
Sep 10, 2002
5,676
240
Hamburg, Germany
Jews born in Germany aren't Germans, they are still jews.

Not entirely ;)
There are quite a few Jews who differentiate between the religion and ethnicity or at least don't see it as completely identical. Just because they have the right to call themselves a Jew, doesn't mean that they don't consider themselves to be German as well. Not to mention those who weren't born as a Jew, how few they may be.

Though yes, a Jew who was born in Germany doesn't have to consider himself a German.
 

Rabid Ranger

2 is better than one
Feb 27, 2002
31,015
11,021
Murica
Both of them were not only born in Canada, but grew up in Canada, and received all of their hockey training here. Hull's mother is an American, hence his ability to qualify for dual citizenship, and I believe Deadmarsh was in the same situation, i.e. one American parent, thus qualifying him for dual citizenship. Both were also ticked off at not getting invites to Team Canada camps early in their careers, hence the defection to the U.S. side.

All of their hockey training? Not exactly. Deadmarsh played in Portland in the WHL and Hull went to Minnesota-Duluth in the NCAA. Besides, as you mention, both have an American parent, automatically qualifying them for citizenship. This is, and always has been a non issue.
 

I Ron Butterfly

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All of their hockey training? Not exactly. Deadmarsh played in Portland in the WHL and Hull went to Minnesota-Duluth in the NCAA. Besides, as you mention, both have an American parent, automatically qualifying them for citizenship. This is, and always has been a non issue.

I semi-agree on the basis of the parent thing, but to claim because someone plays for an American team in the CANADIAN Hockey League makes them elgiible to playf or that country, well that's a reach.
 

hdw

Registered User
Jul 9, 2006
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Stockholm
Well this is a tournament pitting nations against each other, not ethnicities, which was my original point as to how Canada would have only Chris Simon and Jordin Tootoo if that were the case.

It's actually down to citizenship.
And as known some have dual citizenship, either from birth or later naturalisation.

But there's some special cases with various former 'constructed' states, like Soviet and to some degree Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia for instance.

Esp since much people was relocated, willingly or forced, to another part of the constructed state. When the state was dissolved and/or new nations where formed there was a lot of people stranded in a 'foreign' country.
 

Rabid Ranger

2 is better than one
Feb 27, 2002
31,015
11,021
Murica
I semi-agree on the basis of the parent thing, but to claim because someone plays for an American team in the CANADIAN Hockey League makes them elgiible to playf or that country, well that's a reach.


That's not what I said. The poster I responded to said Hull and Deadmarsh received all of their hockey training in Canada. That isn't true. In the end, both players are American by virtue of their mothers being from the U.S. That alone entitled them to make the choice they did about what country they would play for.
 

Jokerit Wasp

Registered User
Mar 8, 2004
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I'm no world history buff, but I don't think that country is still around.

:D Yes, but it was when he was born.

Imagine Canada split up into 3 countries now, called Yax, Cox and Dox. So, now you live in Cox, would you say you were born in Cox, or Canada? :help:
 

I Ron Butterfly

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Jan 6, 2007
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:D Yes, but it was when he was born.

Imagine Canada split up into 3 countries now, called Yax, Cox and Dox. So, now you live in Cox, would you say you were born in Cox, or Canada? :help:

Well since Canada wouldn't have a team, I'd go with Cox, even though I'd probably have to renounce citizenship in any country that shares a naemsake with Damien Cox.
 

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