Blue Jays Discussion: Turn out the lights, the season's over.

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I'm not sure what the big deal is about the sign stealing. It isn't illegal and has been happening for years.

With video technology and real time updates getting better it was inevitable that they were going to be stolen in real time. If you haven't checked out Mark Robers video on youtube about an app he made, you should check it out. Fairly simple but within a couple signs he could figure out exactly what a certain sign indicated.

Either teams have to get smarter, or they eventually go a mic'd up system where no visual signs are given.

 

[Kurtz]

I'm not sure what the big deal is about the sign stealing. It isn't illegal and has been happening for years.

With video technology and real time updates getting better it was inevitable that they were going to be stolen in real time. If you haven't checked out Mark Robers video on youtube about an app he made, you should check it out. Fairly simple but within a couple signs he could figure out exactly what a certain sign indicated.

Either teams have to get smarter, or they eventually go a mic'd up system where no visual signs are given.

It's illegal to use video technology to steal signs, which is why MLB is currently investigating them.

 

[Discoverer]

I'm not sure what the big deal is about the sign stealing. It isn't illegal and has been happening for years.

With video technology and real time updates getting better it was inevitable that they were going to be stolen in real time. If you haven't checked out Mark Robers video on youtube about an app he made, you should check it out. Fairly simple but within a couple signs he could figure out exactly what a certain sign indicated.

Either teams have to get smarter, or they eventually go a mic'd up system where no visual signs are given.

It IS illegal to use technology or off-field assistance to steal signs.

 

[dredeye]

That’s pretty f***ing brutal

 

[canucksfan]

Astros look like golden boys after crying foul when the Cards employee breached their database. Their whole rise over the last 3-4 years is tainted now. MLB should throw the book at them.

MLB needs to come down on them hard. Set a precedent. If they got off with an easy consequence then more teams will be looking to do it.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Throw the book at them, they'll probably even know it's coming.

 

[Deebo]

Or imagine caring about what another man writes?

Like those who get worked up over Stroman's tweets?

 

[phillipmike]

MLB needs to come down on them hard. Set a precedent. If they got off with an easy consequence then more teams will be looking to do it.

MLB will fine them an amount of money that means a lot to the average job but nothing to a major league team, take away a few draft picks and think it’s enough.

Only way to really prevent this is to ban one of Luhnow or Hinch like they did the Braves GM, 50M fine and take away multiple top picks. The organization needs to feel this and feel it hard.

 

[GreytWun]

I'm not sure what the big deal is about the sign stealing. It isn't illegal and has been happening for years.

With video technology and real time updates getting better it was inevitable that they were going to be stolen in real time. If you haven't checked out Mark Robers video on youtube about an app he made, you should check it out. Fairly simple but within a couple signs he could figure out exactly what a certain sign indicated.

Either teams have to get smarter, or they eventually go a mic'd up system where no visual signs are given.

lol what? technology in Baseball is illegal.

Also how can you use mics to call a game? Are you suggesting the game is called entirely from the dugout?

 

[Mach85]

lol what? technology in Baseball is illegal.

Also how can you use mics to call a game? Are you suggesting the game is called entirely from the dugout?

Clearly, he's suggesting every catcher be trained on ventriloquism so he can toss his voice to the pitcher and bypass the batter. Let's get to working it into the WAR equations.

 

[phillipmike]

I know it’s negotiations but this FO is really going to break Shoemakers balls over 500k? And did I read right, Shoemaker is willing to take less than 3.5M on a long term deal? Sign me up for a 3 year deal, that’s a lot of surplus value to be had.

 

[Amadeus]

I know it’s negotiations but this FO is really going to break Shoemakers balls over 500k? And did I read right, Shoemaker is willing to take less than 3.5M on a long term deal? Sign me up for a 3 year deal, that’s a lot of surplus value to be had.

jays are right to lower the money albeit not by a lot.

 

[Discoverer]

I know it’s negotiations but this FO is really going to break Shoemakers balls over 500k? And did I read right, Shoemaker is willing to take less than 3.5M on a long term deal? Sign me up for a 3 year deal, that’s a lot of surplus value to be had.

Sounds more like it's about the Jays wanting an option and Shoemaker wanting more guaranteed money to give up free agency.

 

[Canada4Gold]

If Cole we’re open to come here they should just massively frontload an offer. Give him the most money, and do it so he’s getting 60 million each of the first 2 years. He gets more total, and more up front. We have less committed for the future which opens up room for when we need it for arbitration raises when our guys are arb eligible. Plus worse comes to worse he’s more tradable too.

But we won’t and it’s sucks.

 

[kb]

If Cole we’re open to come here they should just massively frontload an offer. Give him the most money, and do it so he’s getting 60 million each of the first 2 years. He gets more total, and more up front. We have less committed for the future which opens up room for when we need it for arbitration raises when our guys are arb eligible. Plus worse comes to worse he’s more tradable too.

But we won’t and it’s sucks.

He'd only do that with an opt out clause anyway.....

Plus Boras.....

 

[phillipmike]

Blue Jays locked in on pitching but more bats also offer path to improvement - Sportsnet.ca

The Blue Jays have “legitimate interest” in soon-to-be free agent Jake Odorizzi, according to Shi Davidi of Sportsnet.ca. The Toronto organization has already held a sit-down with his agents regarding that interest (among other matters, no doubt).

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Seeing us linked to Ordorizzi and Wheeler makes me happy. Get em.

 

[stickty111]

Seeing us linked to Ordorizzi and Wheeler makes me happy. Get em.

Link that says we are looking at Wheeler?

 

[deletethis]

I hope they don't overvalue Shoemaker too much. We never got to see the other side of the hot-cold pitcher Shoemaker has always been. He has a crazy number of career runless starts for an average performing MLB starter.

 

[phillipmike]

Guys add me to the boat of if it isnt Cole, Rendon, Strasburg or maybe Wheeler, i have no interest in giving up our 2nd round pick to sign MadBum, Odorizzi, Donaldson, Abreu, Ozuna or Smith.

Jays stand to lose the most out of all the teams if they sign a qualified free agent, so it better be worth it;

Which Pick(s) Each Team Would Forfeit By Signing A Qualified Free Agent

These 12 remaining teams would forfeit their second-highest pick and and have their international signing bonus pool reduced by $500K upon signing a qualified free agent. At 67-95, the Blue Jays had the worst record among this group, meaning it’d be most costly (in terms of amateur talent acquisition capital) for them to sign a qualified free agent. However, GM Ross Atkins has said since the season ended that such concerns won’t deter the Jays from pursuing qualified free agents.

Last year the 5th pick in the 2nd round had a bonus value of 1.617M. That is a lot of money to lose and potentially long term value if you arent getting a cornerstone player via free agency.

Last 5th pick in the 2nd round over the last 3 Drafts:
2019: SS Nasim Nunez (Miami) - 51st ranked prospect by MLB.com (Miami's 15th ranked prospect)
2018: SP Simeon Woods-Richardson - 160th ranked propsect by MLB.com (Now the Jays 6th ranked prospect)
2017: CF Drew Waters - 42nd ranked prospect by MLB.com (Braves 2nd best prospect) (23rd best overall)

Sure this evidence could be seen as flawed but there is a lot of talent to be had in the 2nd round especially if you have a big bonus pool. You can grab first round talent early in that 2nd round that could become a big piece for the Jays.

 

[phillipmike]

Also would like to note that the Jays have a need for a long term CF with an abundance of catching plus a reliever in Giles they want to move.

The Braves have a need for long term catcher and a pen arm with 2 CF prospects coming in Pache and Waters.

I would love to trade McGuire and Giles for Pache or Waters. Knowing that the Braves wouldn’t have a lot of interest in McGuire then maybe there is a deal of Jansen for Pache or Waters, which I would reluctantly agree to. Jansen was a draft pick under AA’s regime so he may have more interest in Jansen.

Jansen would be hard to give up but Waters or Pache would be huge to add to this lineup. Guerrero, Bichette, Biggio, Gurriel, McGuire and Pache/Waters would be a good core lineup with Grichuk, Tellez and some free agents to support. Plus you have the next wave in Hiraldo, Martinez, Groshans, Kirk, Moreno, etc. If both McGuire hits then great, if not, you have Kirk, Moreno and Adams who could come along. McGuire’s defense will still be a huge plus.

 

[phillipmike]

 

[Discoverer]

Guys add me to the boat of if it isnt Cole, Rendon, Strasburg or maybe Wheeler, i have no interest in giving up our 2nd round pick to sign MadBum, Odorizzi, Donaldson, Abreu, Ozuna or Smith.

Jays stand to lose the most out of all the teams if they sign a qualified free agent, so it better be worth it;

Which Pick(s) Each Team Would Forfeit By Signing A Qualified Free Agent



Last year the 5th pick in the 2nd round had a bonus value of 1.617M. That is a lot of money to lose and potentially long term value if you arent getting a cornerstone player via free agency.

Last 5th pick in the 2nd round over the last 3 Drafts:
2019: SS Nasim Nunez (Miami) - 51st ranked prospect by MLB.com (Miami's 15th ranked prospect)
2018: SP Simeon Woods-Richardson - 160th ranked propsect by MLB.com (Now the Jays 6th ranked prospect)
2017: CF Drew Waters - 42nd ranked prospect by MLB.com (Braves 2nd best prospect) (23rd best overall)

Sure this evidence could be seen as flawed but there is a lot of talent to be had in the 2nd round especially if you have a big bonus pool. You can grab first round talent early in that 2nd round that could become a big piece for the Jays.

The top four are obviously worth it for me, while Odorizzi and Donaldson are kind of in a middle ground where it's a really tough call (Odorizzi because of his ability to repeat 2019 and Donaldson because of his age). The rest are easy no's for me (and I suspect Abreu and Smith both accept the QO anyway).

(Also... that's why it makes so much sense to go big for one of the top guys AND sign a secondary guy like Odorizzi. The payroll room is quite obviously there and then the cost of signing Odorizzi drops to a third-round pick. I'm not stupid enough to believe there's any chance they would actually do this, but it makes a ton of sense.)

 

[phillipmike]

Blue Jays locked in on pitching but more bats also offer path to improvement - Sportsnet.ca

Jays all over the place on the rumor market;

Shi Davidi of Sportsnet reports that the Blue Jays have "at minimum, discussed Mike Moustakas internally."

Shi Davidi of Sportsnet reports that the Blue Jays met with Jake Odorizzi's representatives Tuesday and they have "legitimate interest" in him.

Blue Jays general manager Ross Atkins confirmed Tuesday that his club has interest in Japanese hitters Yoshitomo Tsutsugo and Shogo Akiyama.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Jays all over the place on the rumor market;

I like how it took out the s--- part of Tsutsugo's name.

Profanity filter a bit too strong on HF