Tukkonen v Olesz

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by WADEugottaBELAKthat, Jan 7, 2005.

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  1. WADEugottaBELAKthat

    WADEugottaBELAKthat Flynt Flossy

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    Did I mention that..
    Do you think the point differential between the two this past WJC is a sure-fire indication Olesz has higher offensive upside? Overall?
     
  2. Legionnaire

    Legionnaire Kill! Jeff, Kill!!! Sponsor

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    No. It's one tournament.

    While I don't doubt both will be successful, Olesz is obviously farther along.
     
  3. hockeyfan125

    hockeyfan125 Registered User

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    What NHL'er would Olesz be compared to? I saw him play, just can't think of any comparisons...
     
  4. Legionnaire

    Legionnaire Kill! Jeff, Kill!!! Sponsor

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    Reminds me of Holik.
     
  5. Jason MacIsaac

    Jason MacIsaac Registered User

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    Holik is a bull, Olesz plays like a wimp....that is at the WJC level. Imagine what he will play like at the NHL level. I don't hold hatred towards any prospects. I covered Czechs very closely because Vrana was with them. Olesz just puzzles me, he doesn't drive to the net at all or use his size well in the corners. His lower body strength is also quite low for someone his size. The thing that I enjoy about his game is his comitment to play defense and he finishes almost every chance he gets.
     
  6. Souffle

    Souffle A soupçon of nutmeg

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    He kind of made me think of Viktor Kozlov: good skill, vision and size, but somewhat passive.
     
  7. Venom_17

    Venom_17 Registered User

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    I think that Olesz does have higher offensive potential. But, I think that they are very even overall when other areas of their games are considered. I think Tukonen is a more well-rounded player but Olesz will put the puck in the net more regularly.
     
  8. Radek Dvorak.
     
  9. Barnaby

    Barnaby Registered User

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    Smaller Holik with more offense. Maybe a Peca plus offense. He plays very nice defense and can hit in addition to his scoring ability.
     
  10. PanthersRule96

    PanthersRule96 Registered User

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    No, not as fast. Dvorak was all about speed.

    Not Holik either IMO. Nor Kozlov. Kozlov was ultra soft. Olesz will hit and play aggressive but is more of a finesse player from what I hear of this tournament.

    It's kinda hard to think of comparasins. I mean I think his game is still changing and it will for a while. He used to be known as a playmaker who didn't score but set up people and now I think he's switched to being more of an overall player who scores and sets up, but then he had 7 g and 3 a.

    Olesz is way higher than Tukonen and even with the injury, Olesz was picked 4 spots ahead of a healthy Tukonen. Tukonen dropped for some unknown reason. Teams would've picked him if they felt he was awesome but there was a behind the scene reason he dropped.

    Olesz I don't think really plays a style of one particular NHLer today. A great 2 way forward with lots of offensive skill but plays aggressive sometimes. Not an amaizing skater but above average and fast enough to succeed. Has great hockey sense. I dunno. Sounds like Stephen Weiss only a lot bigger and more aggressive.
     
  11. Levitate

    Levitate Registered User

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    i honestly dont' think tukonen really dropped for an unknown reason...i think his upside just isn't as high as some people thought it should be, and NHL teams knew this. not saying he's a bad player but i dont' think he's gonna be a real 1st line powerforward type guy some thought he would be. he's a great pick at #11 but it's not a huge shock that he dropped to that spot

    and olesz dropped too...
     
  12. J17 Vs Proclamation

    J17 Vs Proclamation Registered User

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    Tukonen does have hogh end potential. Many people thought he was top #5. Olesz remember was called the 2nd coming of Jagr and was the concensus #2 a year before his draft. Heck even with injury and all he was still though top #5 easy. Teams were suprised he fell. Wheeler and Montoya and Ladd went too high.
     
  13. Levitate

    Levitate Registered User

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    i don't ever remember olesz being called the second coming of jagr...he doesn't have nearly the talent jagr does, not even close

    i heard more comparisons to holik

    as for tukonen...I've talked to more than one person who has seen him play a lot and feels his scoring potential isn't all that great. not that he won't score some points, but he doesn't have enough to be an elite scorer.
     
  14. Jungle Boy

    Jungle Boy Registered User

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    He was compared to Jagr in an article (Future Stars I think) here in HF 3 or 4 years ago. this article was also talking about Stall, Horton, Brown, Fritsche, O´Sully, Ovechkin, Tukonen, Belle, Suter, Coburn... Very good read.
     
  15. Matt13

    Matt13 Registered User

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    Behind the scenes was Phx taking some guy named Wheeler, which dropped him one spot right there.
     
  16. PanthersRule96

    PanthersRule96 Registered User

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    Yeah, but Olesz, Montoya, Smid, Picard etc.... Tukonen dropped below all of them too.

    BTW, Olesz dropped BECAUSE of the injury. I'm not denying he dropped, as he obviously did. Olesz's nickname HAD been (dunno if it still is) Jagr2.
     
  17. FTK

    FTK Registered User

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    Olesz reminds me a lot of Radek Bonk
     
  18. Matt13

    Matt13 Registered User

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    Well of course Montoya jumped, coming off an awesome performance in Juniors and the Rangers being thin in G prospects
     
  19. PanthersRule96

    PanthersRule96 Registered User

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    Yeah, that's the guy who I was thinking of, only a bit smaller. I think Olesz could grow a couple inches more maybe. At max 2, but maybe 1 more to make him 6'2 or 6'3 as he's like 6'1.5 right now I think it said. Bonk was a good player and I think Olesz could definatley reach totals like Bonk had. I wish FLA had traded for Bonk but they just let him go to LA then MTL.
     
  20. serum114

    serum114 Registered User

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    Great coparison IMO. I had heard many Holik comparisons before watching him play, but after seeing him in action, he seems more like Bonk. Definite offensive ability, solid defensively and while he uses his size, he is by no means a physical player.

    I think Bonk with perhaps a bit more offense is a reasonable upside expectation...
     
  21. Kings16

    Kings16 Registered User

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    There are certainly teams looking to use their 1st rounders to sell tickets and scoring hype is what matters to the fringe-fan (generally expansion teams). But there are also teams that are taking a long term approach to building a winner (for the playoffs). To them, I don't think scoring potential in today's game is as an important factor as competitiveness of a player.

    Guys who are in the spotlight too long always drop on draft day. I think teams (scouts, GMs) over-analyze a guy the longer they've known about him. It's just the nature of things.

    I'm sure the Kings were ecstatic to have Tukkonen drop to them in the draft. Just as they were when Dustin Brown did and Frolov before that.

    The WJC shouldn't be used as a measuring stick of Tukkonen - the Finns were the young team in the tourney. There's a huge difference in level of play between 17-18 year olds vs 19-20.

    As for the NYR taking Montoya, I felt on draft day that it was a foolish move by a team that too recently had used a 1st rounder on Blackburn. There must be something about NY that has GM's squandering high 1st rounders on goalies.
     
  22. Levitate

    Levitate Registered User

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    if blackburn hadn't ended up being injured, it wouldn't have been a wasted pick IMO. he had a very good chance to be an excellent #1 NHL goalie. plus if he wasn't injured, there's probably less chance the rangers take montoya. with blackburn's future completely in doubt...the rangers would only have lundqvist as a top quality goalie prospect if they didn't draft montoya, and most teams probably wouldn't feel comfortable only having one good goalie prospect and not knowing if he would actually pan out.

    i also think it's a joke when people get off on the "you shouldn't draft a goalie in the first round, good ones are always found later, blah blah blah". look, these players are ranked and drafted based on their talent as observed by scouts, etc. the reason some guys go high is because everyone thinks their talent level is higher than that of the guys who go later in the draft. you can't just bank on the idea that "good goalies come from later in the draft so we'll always pick a goalie later" and expect to pick up quality guys. the goalies who go in the first round go because they're the most talented of their draft class (at the time at least). would you draft the less talented of two goalies based on that kind of speculation? i sure wouldn't, and it seems most teams wouldn't either. yeah you get lucky with later round guys sometimes...it happens with skaters too...but again, the most talented guys usually go first...some flop, some succeed, some later round guys really improve...but it's a safer bet if you need a goalie to take one in the first round if you can

    by the time the draft rolled around, olesz dropped because of concerns over his offensive prowess, not just his injury. he had a crap statistical year leading into the draft and that was definatly a big reason he wasn't ranked at #2 or #3 anymore. to think he's comparable to jagr in any way at this point is a joke.
     
  23. silver_made*

    silver_made* Guest

    You don't like anything related to the Panthers. Nice cover-up attempt at the end though
     
  24. Kings16

    Kings16 Registered User

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    Yes you can. Because on the whole, goalies take longer to develop AND assessing a goalie at the age of 18 is far more difficult than players at other positions.

    There's a reason that Bobby Clarke has so many talented prospects in his system - he doesn't waste 1st rounders on goalies and he lets others GM's make the mistake ahead of him.

    You can always get a former 1st round goalie that a team has given up on (maybe too early) for a 3-4 rounder.
     
  25. Hunter Gathers

    Hunter Gathers ordinary corrupt human love Sponsor

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    Wow. That's a solid comparison, actually.

    I see Olesz with a bit more potential of a higher scoring player than Tukkonen. I see Tukkonen with more of a 2nd line potential, but has the grit to play on the lower lines if he didn't pan out. I don't know if Olesz has that grit, frankly.
     
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