TSR's 2011 Mid-Term Top 60 Skaters

[Debrincat93]

Well everyone is ranked within reason. For instance I personally really like Scheifele. You can check my pieces on him from before the OHL season where I said he'd be a major riser this season, but where we have him is probably the highest limit I'd put him right now, and two months ago, most people would have thought I was crazy.

Gotcha, i hope i didn't sound like a dick with that post because i was just curious...

Anyway, thanks for all the hard work!

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Glad to see I'm not the only one waiting to see this "powerforward" in Saad's game emerge. This is why I thought one comparison that was made of him to someone like Brendan Morrow was way off the mark.

In the games I've seen, he just looks like a finesse forward with some size, rather than a forward who uses that size on a regular (or even semi regular) basis to produce offense.

 

[McRobbiezyg]

Do you think Ryan Sproul will be able to jump into the top 60 by the time the draft rolls around?

 

[Hey234]

I am curious as to what you guys think about Jamie Oleksiak? With his size and skill package, why was he not included on the list?

Thanks for the list. I always enjoy reading them.

 

[The Scouting Report]

Do you think Ryan Sproul will be able to jump into the top 60 by the time the draft rolls around?

If he keeps up this pace, it's hard to imagine he won't. He's a big guy with pretty good offensive instincts and has been really playing a much bigger role since the Hounds sold off some guys including Archibald.

I am curious as to what you guys think about Jamie Oleksiak? With his size and skill package, why was he not included on the list?

Thanks for the list. I always enjoy reading them.

We have a couple guys who really are not fans of Oleksiak. Personally I saw him a couple of years ago so I'm not really the best person to judge, but both of our guys who have had more looks said they'd be in the 60-75 range for them. Just based on his size and ability it's hard to imagine him not going in the Top 60, but we'll see.

 

[The Saw Is the Law]

Where is WJC forward Miikka Salomäki? His WJC was impressive. Played in 3 games and 2+1. As much as Couturier but he played 7 games... Both were third line centres.

 

[PensFan101]

Great list guys! The Puempel ranking is really interesting. The Petes haven't been to my neck of the woods yet this season (nor will I be able to get to the game), so I've only been able to follow the Petes' situation through the internet.

Has Puempel really made a meaningful step forward in your staff's eyes to be ranked so high (or at least in someone's eyes)? I'm just curious to figure out if he's part of the problem or part of the potential turnaround in Peterborough...

Also, love the ranking of Scheifele. I've been thoroughly impressed with him every time I've watched him. Pretty much the only reason to watch the Colts play this season.

 

[Ward Cornell]

Also, love the ranking of Scheifele. I've been thoroughly impressed with him every time I've watched him.

I second that!!

(What did Barrie give up to Saginaw for him?
I can't recall but I don't think it was all that much)

 

[The Scouting Report]

Where is WJC forward Miikka Salomäki? His WJC was impressive. Played in 3 games and 2+1. As much as Couturier but he played 7 games... Both were third line centres.

We have limited viewing of him. Also I will never put too much stock in one tournament. It's one of the first lessons I ever learned in scouting when Luke Pither went 4th Overall in the OHL Draft after dominating the OHL Cup.

Great list guys! The Puempel ranking is really interesting. The Petes haven't been to my neck of the woods yet this season (nor will I be able to get to the game), so I've only been able to follow the Petes' situation through the internet.

Has Puempel really made a meaningful step forward in your staff's eyes to be ranked so high (or at least in someone's eyes)? I'm just curious to figure out if he's part of the problem or part of the potential turnaround in Peterborough...

Also, love the ranking of Scheifele. I've been thoroughly impressed with him every time I've watched him. Pretty much the only reason to watch the Colts play this season.

Without Puempel, Peterborough would be pretty anemic right now. I've gotten to see him quite a bit this year, and I really think he's made some progress from last year. Seems to have the ability to create more on his own this year and looks to be more engaged. Peterborough's issue is that the team has no depth up front, and the blue-line is basically a train wreck. Goaltending isn't exactly a gem, either.

I second that!!

(What did Barrie give up to Saginaw for him?
I can't recall but I don't think it was all that much)

It was Mavric Parks for Scheifele and a 2nd in 2013. Scheifele was originall committed to go the NCAA route to Cornell, but Barrie was able to get him to report.

Pretty good move for both teams, as Parks has obviously been a huge component of Saginaw's success this year.

 

[The Saw Is the Law]

We have limited viewing of him. Also I will never put too much stock in one tournament. It's one of the first lessons I ever learned in scouting when Luke Pither went 4th Overall in the OHL Draft after dominating the OHL Cup.

Thanks for answer. How many you have seen these players? I guess many games of NA players but how about European players?

 

[AmericanDream]

Absolutely excellent list, I appreciate the effort, time, and the willingness to make something so fools like us can "attempt" to know what we are talking about and downgrade certain rankings!!!

Now to the fools downgrading part!!

I will comment on a few player rankings that you have.

The most glaring one is Tyler Biggs outside the first round. It just simply isnt going to happen. I respect your opinion and justification as to why he was ranked there, but there simply isnt much else like him in this draft. He plays much more physical then most (if not all) other power forwards with a softer set of hands. Dont be fooled by USNDP stats, they are meaningless.

I have backed Biggs for some time, and though a top 10 pick is a stretch for him currently, there is simply no reason or excuse to have him outside the first round when he plays the game better overall then all players comparibile to him. The only other true comparable to him is Colin Jacobs, as Colin plays with such toughness as well. And Colin might wind up as a first round pick as well.

Next up is Jamieson Oleksiak, where is he? I can understand having your USHL/College guys down on him a bit, but not in the top 60 is almost criminal. This kid has come along way, and if these people are basing their opinions of him from last year, then they shouldnt be contributing to your site, period.

I had plenty of harsh things to say about Oleksiak last year, and what he needed to work on, but the amazing part is this kid has done all of that and is having one of, if not the most impressive year for any draft eligible collegiate dman. I cant say for sure he goes in the first round (but 6'7 dmen usually go very very high, especially the mobile ones which he is), but he is at no worse a top 50 pick this year.

I also did not see Vincent Trocheck on your list, and that surprised me a bit. This kid isnt that big of a player, and takes some heat for that, but he plays much bigger then Saad does, has similar offensive skills, and drops the gloves and fights for God's sake. He is a player that seems to just get labeled a smaller forward, yet plays the game much bigger. No way Trocheck goes in the third round, he is too talented and gritty to do so.

To my surprise, you were very high on Matt Nieto and Robbie Russo, both players are down on many rankings, but both kids have all world talent. I was pleasently surprised to see this as I think Nieto gets shafted for being a freshman on such a strong team, and Russo just had super high expectations that were too hard to live up too. I hope they both go where you have them as they are two very talented young men.

Another name I have is Connor Murphy -USNDP - Defensman - Though this kid has been hurt for the better part of a year and a half, there are many in the USHL circles that still think this kid goes in the first round, which is amazing. He has one heck of an all around game, NHL size, and skills, but many just havent gotten to see him, any thoughts on him and a team really taking a chance and drafting him high??

Loved where Seth Ambroz is ranked, kid still has the skills and toughness to deserve a first round pick, plays tougher then Saad with a similar skillset.

Thanks for the great list, loved the read, and you wont please many on here, but I appreciate the effort that went in to it, and look forward to hearing back on some of the things I mentioned.

 

[AmericanDream]

I also hope Ty Rattie stays in that wonderful hawks jersey and gets drafted by the Blackhawks...I love Rattie, and I think many are missing the boat with him. Hope he goes around the 20 range so the Hawks can snag that kid up! Would love it.

Also, still waiting for the scoring ability of Ryan Nugent-Hopkins. I will go out on a limb and say this kid doesnt go top 5 in June. Just too little scoring for him. I know he is a pass first player, but when you have the lowest goals total in the entire top 60 of the WHL, something isnt right. Just cant see a team picking him in the top 5 with the lack of goals he has produced. Plus he needs to bulk up some as well, reminds me of a Kyle Turris at times.

Hey RNH, shoot the damn puck kid! You read it here first, RNH will fall folks come June...not an epic Fowler or Gormley fall, but he wont go top 5 imo.

 

[The Scouting Report]

Thanks for answer. How many you have seen these players? I guess many games of NA players but how about European players?

Yeah we cover all the North American leagues really well. I have a couple great contacts who really have good opinions of the HS and Prep School kids, and we have a guy in Europe who knows quite a bit as well and I really respect his opinion. Then we obviously get to see guys at international tournaments, and we had a couple of our contributors who managed to get out to Buffalo this year. I sadly only got to one game, the Germany/USA game, which was not spectacular to say the least!

Absolutely excellent list, I appreciate the effort, time, and the willingness to make something so fools like us can "attempt" to know what we are talking about and downgrade certain rankings!!!

Now to the fools downgrading part!!

I will comment on a few player rankings that you have.

The most glaring one is Tyler Biggs outside the first round. It just simply isnt going to happen. I respect your opinion and justification as to why he was ranked there, but there simply isnt much else like him in this draft. He plays much more physical then most (if not all) other power forwards with a softer set of hands. Dont be fooled by USNDP stats, they are meaningless.

I have backed Biggs for some time, and though a top 10 pick is a stretch for him currently, there is simply no reason or excuse to have him outside the first round when he plays the game better overall then all players comparibile to him. The only other true comparable to him is Colin Jacobs, as Colin plays with such toughness as well. And Colin might wind up as a first round pick as well.

Next up is Jamieson Oleksiak, where is he? I can understand having your USHL/College guys down on him a bit, but not in the top 60 is almost criminal. This kid has come along way, and if these people are basing their opinions of him from last year, then they shouldnt be contributing to your site, period.

I had plenty of harsh things to say about Oleksiak last year, and what he needed to work on, but the amazing part is this kid has done all of that and is having one of, if not the most impressive year for any draft eligible collegiate dman. I cant say for sure he goes in the first round (but 6'7 dmen usually go very very high, especially the mobile ones which he is), but he is at no worse a top 50 pick this year.

I also did not see Vincent Trocheck on your list, and that surprised me a bit. This kid isnt that big of a player, and takes some heat for that, but he plays much bigger then Saad does, has similar offensive skills, and drops the gloves and fights for God's sake. He is a player that seems to just get labeled a smaller forward, yet plays the game much bigger. No way Trocheck goes in the third round, he is too talented and gritty to do so.

To my surprise, you were very high on Matt Nieto and Robbie Russo, both players are down on many rankings, but both kids have all world talent. I was pleasently surprised to see this as I think Nieto gets shafted for being a freshman on such a strong team, and Russo just had super high expectations that were too hard to live up too. I hope they both go where you have them as they are two very talented young men.

Another name I have is Connor Murphy -USNDP - Defensman - Though this kid has been hurt for the better part of a year and a half, there are many in the USHL circles that still think this kid goes in the first round, which is amazing. He has one heck of an all around game, NHL size, and skills, but many just havent gotten to see him, any thoughts on him and a team really taking a chance and drafting him high??

Loved where Seth Ambroz is ranked, kid still has the skills and toughness to deserve a first round pick, plays tougher then Saad with a similar skillset.

Thanks for the great list, loved the read, and you wont please many on here, but I appreciate the effort that went in to it, and look forward to hearing back on some of the things I mentioned.

Yeah I'm sure people can easily make a case for Biggs in the first round, and if the draft was today, I'd be surprised if he wasn't in the Top 30. That's just where we have him. As for Oleksiek, I mentioned that I personally haven't seen him in two years. We have two other guys who have seen him this year. As you mentioned, yeah I have a hard time seeing him slip past probably even #40, but there's also no shortage of examples of hulking defenseman who have gone on to prove absolutely nothing. I'm not saying that's the case with him, but size isn't everything.

I've seen Trocheck quite a bit, and frankly I don't even know if I'd take him in the 3rd round. He's got pretty good speed and he's also got a great shot, but he just doesn't bring it enough. He dogs it on the back-check a lot and is extremely turnover prone. I've seen him turn the puck over at the opposing blue-line too many times this year and it's painful to watch. He's going to be a great OHL player, could be a decent pro, but he really hasn't convinced me personally that he's going to be able to play a top two line role at the next level.

I don't think Murphy will go in the 1st, but I could definitely see him in the 45-60 range when it's all said and done. It's really unfortunate to have that setback in your draft year, though.

Where do you think Ambroz goes next year? I guess there's some talk he might take the WHL route, which might be better given his style of game... but it will be interesting to see what happens with him.

Appreciate your comments though!

Cheers

 

[AmericanDream]

Yeah we cover all the North American leagues really well. I have a couple great contacts who really have good opinions of the HS and Prep School kids, and we have a guy in Europe who knows quite a bit as well and I really respect his opinion. Then we obviously get to see guys at international tournaments, and we had a couple of our contributors who managed to get out to Buffalo this year. I sadly only got to one game, the Germany/USA game, which was not spectacular to say the least!



Yeah I'm sure people can easily make a case for Biggs in the first round, and if the draft was today, I'd be surprised if he wasn't in the Top 30. That's just where we have him. As for Oleksiek, I mentioned that I personally haven't seen him in two years. We have two other guys who have seen him this year. As you mentioned, yeah I have a hard time seeing him slip past probably even #40, but there's also no shortage of examples of hulking defenseman who have gone on to prove absolutely nothing. I'm not saying that's the case with him, but size isn't everything.

I've seen Trocheck quite a bit, and frankly I don't even know if I'd take him in the 3rd round. He's got pretty good speed and he's also got a great shot, but he just doesn't bring it enough. He dogs it on the back-check a lot and is extremely turnover prone. I've seen him turn the puck over at the opposing blue-line too many times this year and it's painful to watch. He's going to be a great OHL player, could be a decent pro, but he really hasn't convinced me personally that he's going to be able to play a top two line role at the next level.

I don't think Murphy will go in the 1st, but I could definitely see him in the 45-60 range when it's all said and done. It's really unfortunate to have that setback in your draft year, though.

Where do you think Ambroz goes next year? I guess there's some talk he might take the WHL route, which might be better given his style of game... but it will be interesting to see what happens with him.

Appreciate your comments though!

Cheers

Trocheck- I guess we will have to disagree a bit on him. The games I have seen, Trocheck was everywhere on the ice, backchecking relentless, and getting in the face as an agitator as well. Though it has been a 5-6 game sampling this year from Saginaw, I just think Trocheck has many intangibles that teams love. He is fiesty, competitive, willing to fight, and charges the net. I think he definitely goes top 60.

As for Murphy it definitely sucks having to miss as much time as he has in the past year plus, but the kid is definitely talented and I strongly feel that whoever drafts him is getting one hell of a kid. I also would be floored to see him go top 30, but I think those I talk with in the USHl feel he has top 30 talent and many NHL scouts know this. But his sampling is too small for any team to make a risky pick on him that high. 45-60 makes a lot of sense for a team to pick him up, but we will see.

As for Ambroz, it would make little sense for him to go the WHL next year, when that is what he should have done this season. I know his buddy Colin Jacobs pressed him hard to come to Seattle this season, but that didnt work. If Ambroz was in the WHL I would guarantee him to be a top 15 pick, but it is what it is. Ambroz goes to the U next season, and I wouldnt even think twice about it. Why would he stick in the USHL for another year if he wasnt trying to hold onto his college eligibility? Whatever he decides, I wish him the best, because I have some fond memories of watching him play as a 15 year old nearly three years ago...great kid.

Where do you guys have Matt Killian and Colton St Clair ranked? Dont know if you just stop at 60, but was curious to see if you had a ballpark range for these two young Americans. Both solid young kids that could go top 4 rounds.

 

[ohlguy]

What are the chances Boone Jenner falls that far? Id love for the Leafs to get him

I've watched Boone play most of his home games this year and I really don't know if his skating will translate at the pro level. He also has to stop tapping that stick on the ice, it really ticks off his teammates. I can't see him going in the top 30.

 

[Brun0]

Yeah we cover all the North American leagues really well. I have a couple great contacts who really have good opinions of the HS and Prep School kids, and we have a guy in Europe who knows quite a bit as well and I really respect his opinion. Then we obviously get to see guys at international tournaments, and we had a couple of our contributors who managed to get out to Buffalo this year. I sadly only got to one game, the Germany/USA game, which was not spectacular to say the least!


May I ask his nationality, I have a feeling that he is Swedish after watching this list..

We all now that leads to hyping swedes and forgetting finns which is missleading...

By the way Salomäki was heavily praised by some nhl scoutes with his offensive instincts and great 2-way game and also being surprisngly physically mature for his age.

I think its also dangoures to combine both europe and NA without any propet scouting in europe... it might effect on the liability of this site.

 

[Hollywood Bad Boy]

It's not just ME disagreeing with him. It's pretty much everyone. Sounds like he's down him him for the sake of being different.

I bet if you email him he would be happy to not only give insight as to his thoughts, but he might even welcome your thoughts and differing opinion. TSR has the contact info of their contributors....just a thought.

 

[The Scouting Report]

I've watched Boone play most of his home games this year and I really don't know if his skating will translate at the pro level. He also has to stop tapping that stick on the ice, it really ticks off his teammates. I can't see him going in the top 30.

Yes, he really needs to stop this. You can see the frustration on his teammates face's when he does this, and it happens far too frequently.

 

[prongertheman9]

I also hope Ty Rattie stays in that wonderful hawks jersey and gets drafted by the Blackhawks...I love Rattie, and I think many are missing the boat with him. Hope he goes around the 20 range so the Hawks can snag that kid up! Would love it.

Also, still waiting for the scoring ability of Ryan Nugent-Hopkins. I will go out on a limb and say this kid doesnt go top 5 in June. Just too little scoring for him. I know he is a pass first player, but when you have the lowest goals total in the entire top 60 of the WHL, something isnt right. Just cant see a team picking him in the top 5 with the lack of goals he has produced. Plus he needs to bulk up some as well, reminds me of a Kyle Turris at times.

Hey RNH, shoot the damn puck kid! You read it here first, RNH will fall folks come June...not an epic Fowler or Gormley fall, but he wont go top 5 imo.

You can go out on a limb all you want but RNH will go top 5 in June. I think his lack of goal scoring might be overshadowed by the fact that he is the offensive catalyst for the hottest team in the CHL.

 

[R S]

I also hope Ty Rattie stays in that wonderful hawks jersey and gets drafted by the Blackhawks...I love Rattie, and I think many are missing the boat with him. Hope he goes around the 20 range so the Hawks can snag that kid up! Would love it.

Also, still waiting for the scoring ability of Ryan Nugent-Hopkins. I will go out on a limb and say this kid doesnt go top 5 in June. Just too little scoring for him. I know he is a pass first player, but when you have the lowest goals total in the entire top 60 of the WHL, something isnt right. Just cant see a team picking him in the top 5 with the lack of goals he has produced. Plus he needs to bulk up some as well, reminds me of a Kyle Turris at times.

Hey RNH, shoot the damn puck kid! You read it here first, RNH will fall folks come June...not an epic Fowler or Gormley fall, but he wont go top 5 imo.

I normally love what you have to say and appreciate all the info on some American guys that we never hear about, but you are way out to lunch on RNH.

He scored a goal tonight in the game I was at.

It was a nice quick wrister that really showed off his quick release and quick decision making.

The kids goal scoring abilities aren't that much of a question. It's not that he can't score.

He's just a pure passer. The most pure passer the draft has seen in several years.

The kid is not falling out of the top 5.

As for his bulk. That comes with time. Everyone knows that. You say he reminds you of Turris in that regard and that is fine, but you also have to realize that MOST people will agree that Turris was rushed by the Yotes and his body was not ready.

RNH is very much in that same boat, but it shouldn't be a concern as long as his pro team is cautious with him.

With that being said, I wouldn't be shocked if he played in the NHL next year. He's not big or heavy, but he's not weak. He's wiry strong. He's not just some wimp. He does compete hard in corners and rarely, if ever, gets hit. He's slippery. That can go along way when you have elite hockey sense like he does. That can be a dangerous combo.

 

[YARR123]

May I ask his nationality, I have a feeling that he is Swedish after watching this list..

We all now that leads to hyping swedes and forgetting finns which is missleading...

By the way Salomäki was heavily praised by some nhl scoutes with his offensive instincts and great 2-way game and also being surprisngly physically mature for his age.

I think its also dangoures to combine both europe and NA without any propet scouting in europe... it might effect on the liability of this site.

The stock of swedish players in general is on the rise, yes, but thats just because they produce such an awesome amount of great prospects. This report didn't hype swedes anymore than any other report has. I agree Salomäki should be in the top 60 but we'll see. And by the way there aren't that many finns to forget in this draft to begin with..

 

[pmorris]

I noticed that Grimaldi was listed as a center on your ranking, and maybe it was all the Fleury/St. Louis/Gionta comparisons that led me to believe he was a right wing. Anyway, do you guys see Grimaldi having to move to the wing anytime soon or do you think he could flourish in the middle much like Danny Briere?

 

[SDig14]

I normally love what you have to say and appreciate all the info on some American guys that we never hear about, but you are way out to lunch on RNH.

He scored a goal tonight in the game I was at.

It was a nice quick wrister that really showed off his quick release and quick decision making.

The kids goal scoring abilities aren't that much of a question. It's not that he can't score.

He's just a pure passer. The most pure passer the draft has seen in several years.

The kid is not falling out of the top 5.

As for his bulk. That comes with time. Everyone knows that. You say he reminds you of Turris in that regard and that is fine, but you also have to realize that MOST people will agree that Turris was rushed by the Yotes and his body was not ready.

RNH is very much in that same boat, but it shouldn't be a concern as long as his pro team is cautious with him.

With that being said, I wouldn't be shocked if he played in the NHL next year. He's not big or heavy, but he's not weak. He's wiry strong. He's not just some wimp. He does compete hard in corners and rarely, if ever, gets hit. He's slippery. That can go along way when you have elite hockey sense like he does. That can be a dangerous combo.

Not even falling out of the top 3, especially since he has done nothing but light it up since the WJC, and most scouts had him at 2 at that point if we trust Bob Mack's scouts.

The kid has 17 points in his last 6 games, is approaching 20 goals, and playing very well in all zones.

People focus on the goal scoring issues, but why does no one even mention the fact he leads the entire league in assists? The next closest is 8 assists behind right now....at this rate, he will probably put up more assists this year than Ryan Johansen did total points last year....the kid's playmaking is exceptional and his scoring is starting to come around as well (IIRC, 4 goals in his last 6 games)

 

[MoreMogilny]

The Leafs seem to be in pretty big need of a player that injects both size and skill into their prospect cupboard. I can't help but think Burke may be targeting someone that fits with bill for required amounts "pugnacity, testosterone, truculence and belligerence" because the Leafs sorely lack anyone in the lineup, or system, that has a high skill level combined with size/toughness.

They don't have their own first (obviously), but will have a second rounder anywhere from 31-35. It seems like the few guys that fall into the size/skill category in that pick range would be:

Biggs (though as some say, he will probably be taken in the first)
Jacobs
Jenner

Is this accurate? Also, any other guys available around the early second round that i should keep my eye on? Is there anyone currently ranked in the first round that may fall out?

Any input here would be great!

 

[CutOnDime97]

I think McColgan will surprise.