Speculation: TSN Will Brandon Pridham carve the future for the leafs acquiring LTIR's?

[joe dirte]

why would you only have 16.3 M in cap by the trade deadline? shouldn't you have 70% of each players cap hit in cap space, because every players cap hit is only 30 percent of what it was at the beginning of the season?

You dont at any point have 16.3 mil. You have space to take on a 16.3 mil player. Because his cap would be 16.3 × .3 = 5 mil. And you were 5 mil under.

 

[Beaumaris]

Its confusing and there is a good reason they pay people to know it.

Hard to explain. But let me try piece by piece.

Lets say you have 70 mil in contracts thatvare all non LTIR. And one player that is LTIR at 5 mil. Your cap hit for the team is 75 mil. Lets say there is an 80 mil cap. Youvhave 5 mil in space.

At the trade deadline, you can take on 5 mil in space. At roughly 30% of the season left, you can take on a 16.3 mil player (or combo of players). Technically a little more but lets not go into that. 5 mil / 30% = 16.3 mil.

Now lets say, same scenario, before the season starts, you add in an 8 mil per year cap hit player. Your cap hit is now 83 mil. With an NHL cap of 80 mil. Your teams cap hit becomes 83 mil. This is because your teams cap hit only rises by the amount youre exceeding the cap. (And cant be more than your LTIR total). so yiu cant exceed the cap by more than 5 mil. Butbyour new cap does not become 85 mil.

How is that different? This part is key. If your new cap was 85 mil becausenof the 5 mil LTIR, and youre onlybsoending 83, you would be 2 mil under the cap, and you accumulate that cap spacet. You can use it at the deadline. But your new cap is NOT 85 mil, its only 83 mil. I.e. toure deemed to be at the cap and you dont accumulate any usuable space.

Ita an important difference because it enables contending teams that are inder the cap to pick up elite players on expiring contracts. And its also why players, especially those with expiring contracts, go for a premium at the deadline. (Not necessarily JUST expirimg contracts butbthe following season youre hit with full cap so yiu have to be able to fit the player in).

A little clearer Joe,thanks for trying.

 

[kb]

A little clearer Joe,thanks for trying.

Sadly, his post is incorrect. For an $80 million cap, if you put a $5 million on LTIR while being $5 million under the cap, it does not automatically give a team $10 million in space. Because the team is cap compliant, LTIR rules would not apply in his example.

 

[joe dirte]

Sadly, his post is incorrect. For an $80 million cap, if you put a $5 million on LTIR while being $5 million under the cap, it does not automatically give a team $10 million in space. Because the team is cap compliant, LTIR rules would not apply in his example.

I never said it did. The first thing I said was if you have a 70 mil non LTIR payroll and a 5 mil LTIR it means you have 75 mil in cap. If the league cap is 80 mil you’re deemed to have 5 in space.

If you pick up a 5 mil player you’re deemed to have no cap space.

but you can pick up another 5 mil player. At which point you’re cap amount is over the league cap, and you’re into LTIR “cap space”.

Your team cap can go over the league cap by LTIR amount. But it still counts as cap hit. Your cap hit at no time is reduced by LTIR amounts, which is a common misconception. They always count, but you can go over by that amount. And you never accumulate cap space over the league cap amount. Including LTIR.

that’s why when you’re under it’s not good to pick up LTIR. But when you’re already over it doesn’t hurt to acquire more. You’re not accumulating cap space anyway.

 

[kb]

I never said it did. The first thing I said was if you have a 70 mil non LTIR payroll and a 5 mil LTIR it means you have 75 mil in cap. If the league cap is 80 mil you’re deemed to have 5 in space.

If you pick up a 5 mil player you’re deemed to have no cap space.

but you can pick up another 5 mil player. At which point you’re cap amount is over the league cap, and you’re into LTIR “cap space”.

Your team cap can go over the league cap by LTIR amount. But it still counts as cap hit. Your cap hit at no time is reduced by LTIR amounts, which is a common misconception. They always count, but you can go over by that amount. And you never accumulate cap space over the league cap amount. Including LTIR.

that’s why when you’re under it’s not good to pick up LTIR. But when you’re already over it doesn’t hurt to acquire more. You’re not accumulating cap space anyway.

Minor correction here. You don't ever want to put players on LTIR unless you actually require the cap relief. So it would be $70 million in payroll, and $5 million on IR (to get a roster exemption), and not on LTIR.

Putting a player on LTIR when a team is cap compliant serves no real purpose as it doesn't create any relief pool(s) due to the ACSL being at $75 million. You want to have the ACSL calculated when a relief pool is actually required.

This is/was my point.

 

[joe dirte]

Minor correction here. You don't ever want to put players on LTIR unless you actually require the cap relief. So it would be $70 million in payroll, and $5 million on IR (to get a roster exemption), and not on LTIR.

Putting a player on LTIR when a team is cap compliant serves no real purpose as it doesn't create any relief pool(s) due to the ACSL being at $75 million. You want to have the ACSL calculated when a relief pool is actually required.

This is/was my point.

Sure, but that's not really the key of what I was pointing out. The main point is that people seem to think that putting a player on LTIR lowers your teams total cap hit. It doesn't. If gives the team the ability to spend over the cap by (up to) the same amount, but you don't actually get that space, until you use it. That SOUNDS meaningless, but it isn't. It's very important because teams accumulate cap space, when they're under the cap. It's a concept that many have a hard time with.

And I suspect it's what the author of the article referenced doesn't get.

 

[Beaumaris]

Sadly, his post is incorrect. For an $80 million cap, if you put a $5 million on LTIR while being $5 million under the cap, it does not automatically give a team $10 million in space. Because the team is cap compliant, LTIR rules would not apply in his example.

Now I’m more confused

 

[Wafflewhipper]

exactly, but of course totally different from seeking out new players fpr ltir, which doesnt help at all.

Then you have potrntial Compliance buyouts which is a totally different ballgame, but thats not being discussed here

There is not a contract we would buy out. There are lots of teams much older and less talented that can’t say that.

 

[rent free]

Now I’m more confused

you only get ltir cap space if you're up against the cap

 

[Merrrlin]

This is not how LTIR works. There is no reason for the Leafs to acquire more at this point. It doesn't save cap. Sports media is just horrible and doesn't know anything about anything.

To be fair, I think the cap and how different contracts and clauses affect it, can be pretty daunting.

However...you shouldn't "report" on anything you don't understand. Very few in Sports media seem to really grasp the NHL cap. I don't see those issues in other sports.