TSN: TSN Trade bait list- Are we kicking tyres? Should we be kicking Tyres?

[Daisy Jane]

Subban can't play defence and is prone to moments of super hero delusions. I wouldn't offer the towel boy for Subban.

Not directed at you SprDaVE - As far as the trade rumors, Leaf fans have to get out of the "we can trade our way into a championship" thought process because its a quick fix. Folks I realize 2 years is a long rebuild (sarcasm) but we have to be patient and wait for our prospects to develop. Dubas has said the answers we need are on the farm, Shanny has said we need to be patient, Babcock has said this will be painful, all hints that this rebuild is a long game, chances are guys like Gardiner, Brown, Hyman, ect may not be on this team when we win (if we win) a championship.

We've seen this year just how hard it is to win a championship, teams who have had special years like like Nashville, Winnipeg, Tampa, Boston don't even get to the SCF and the Cinderella team LV is on the brink of elimination, it tells us that a good team like Toronto has A LOT of work to do if they want to get anywhere near a SCF. Obviously anything can happen but IMO we are not a year or 2 away from being that really dominant team, we are 3 to 5 years away. I just hope our management does not do what they have always done in the past, think we are really close, get impatient, trade away a bunch of prospects/picks for suspect talent (Raycroft, Nolan, ect) and continue the historical cycle of stupid that runs through the halls of MLSE.

I like Trouba, Hamilton, Faulk, Tanev but not at the cost of overpaying with our prospects/picks and isn't that the usual MO of GM's, rob the other guy blind? No thanks to big ticket trades.

No to Faulk.
NO TO TANEV.

 

[Daisy Jane]

True. Some fans don't realize that you can make a trade without selling the farm. BTW, other than Lily, I don't see any Blue chip prospects in the system that I would be afraid to move.

well to me, and i am going to say this. - a lot of people here do not like the idea of trading - period.
and a tonne of people here have "untouchable" as long as my arm. i was reading in one of the threads that Bracco is an untouchable.

the hell he is.

 

[GoonieFace]

A larger than life type like PK would change the entire dynamic of the room. Contract aside, skill aside, not sure PK is a fit with what we have here. Pass . Karlsson to me is a nightmare in the making, I see declining asset and big time regret. OEL I’d have serious interest.

I agree, don't want Subban anywhere near this team. Karlsson is a declining asset. OEL and Doughty I would be all over, and since its only money, Carlson would be a target as well.

 

[saltming]

Sure, let's kick some tyres. What else are we supposed to do this summer?

As long as we avoid injury I'm good

 

[ShaneFalco]

Carlson and/or Calvin de Haan along with JT and call it an off-season

 

[Daisy Jane]

Carlson and/or Calvin de Haan along with JT and call it an off-season

i'm a meh on Carlson
and we also need a centre.

 

[ShaneFalco]

i'm a meh on Carlson
and we also need a centre.

I'm hoping Lindholm or Aaltonen can step in. And then look for a Moore-type vet if no long-term solution is available

 

[bluumax]

Tyres?

Bate?!

Oi mate, you got a loicense?

...

Subban is a great player and I thought he wasn't on the block but if he is...why?

A player is traded once big deal, anyone can be traded, doesn't really raise questions, but a superstar is traded twice in a few years? That has some smell to it.

He would be almost to a T what we need, but I want to know what's at the bottom of this first.

I don't think Karlsson is declining yet, but he will need probably at least ten million to keep after next year.

OEL same but eight, seems younger but only a draft year behind, shoots left but would be our best guy there and would easily let us move Jake.

I kick tyres on all three, but it's going to cost a lot. Preds would surely ask for Nylander or Marner plus back because of the years, sens and Arizona aren't that stupid, but still need a good futures heavy asset package, say goodbye to any 4 or 5 of the '19 1st and 2nd, '20 1st, Kapanen, Liljegren, Johnsson, Grundstrom and Dermott.

Provided not too much was lost, any would make the team much better.

If he was guaranteed to sign, I would probably do OEL for the 2019 first and second, Grundstrom and Dermott. Ottawa in the division makes me iffy and good as Subban is, there's some questions I need answered and I'm extremely hesitant to offer Mitch or Willy.

Yes its hilarious English people spell things differently.... good catch on the bait typo though mayte.

Anyway, with regards to PK, seems Nash are in cap trouble but yes i do agree that its a little bit of a warning sign. I wonder if it has more to do with ownership not wanting to pay the actual dollars though? 9M for another 4/5 years plus what i assume will be fairly high bonuses due to the fact hes a perennial Norris candidate

 

[bluumax]

well to me, and i am going to say this. - a lot of people here do not like the idea of trading - period.
and a tonne of people here have "untouchable" as long as my arm. i was reading in one of the threads that Bracco is an untouchable.

the hell he is.

Ive lingered on here for 10 years and the following has always been true;

- Prospects are worth more than proven vets
- Unless its the next coming of Gretzky/Orr its trash and worthless
- Every prospect is the next coming of Gretzky/Orr and therefore is untouchable

Joking aside, the JFJ era has scared pretty much every leaf fan into a state of "cant trade the kids" no matter what, pretty soon though we will have to start cracking some eggs to make this omelette.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Ive lingered on here for 10 years and the following has always been true;

- Prospects are worth more than proven vets
- Unless its the next coming of Gretzky/Orr its trash and worthless
- Every prospect is the next coming of Gretzky/Orr and therefore is untouchable

Joking aside, the JFJ era has scared pretty much every leaf fan into a state of "cant trade the kids" no matter what, pretty soon though we will have to start cracking some eggs to make this omelette.

LOL, a lot of truth in here.

 

[bluumax]

It's all good fun mate, most of my good buddies over here are British. Sadly couldn't get many of the lads into hockey, but a few already watch.

I think that might perhaps be a possibility, but it seems like Nashville has been doing well with great support for a while now, ownership seems steady. I think they'll more likely shop Ellis, and probably get a ton back for him, who I also would be in on.

I refuse to believe you Canadians can do banter.

Id be in on any defenseman Nashville have, maybe we should poach their scouting staff at the same time.

 

[IBeL34f]

Subban can't play defence and is prone to moments of super hero delusions. I wouldn't offer the towel boy for Subban.

Not directed at you SprDaVE - As far as the trade rumors, Leaf fans have to get out of the "we can trade our way into a championship" thought process because its a quick fix. Folks I realize 2 years is a long rebuild (sarcasm) but we have to be patient and wait for our prospects to develop. Dubas has said the answers we need are on the farm, Shanny has said we need to be patient, Babcock has said this will be painful, all hints that this rebuild is a long game, chances are guys like Gardiner, Brown, Hyman, ect may not be on this team when we win (if we win) a championship.

We've seen this year just how hard it is to win a championship, teams who have had special years like like Nashville, Winnipeg, Tampa, Boston don't even get to the SCF and the Cinderella team LV is on the brink of elimination, it tells us that a good team like Toronto has A LOT of work to do if they want to get anywhere near a SCF. Obviously anything can happen but IMO we are not a year or 2 away from being that really dominant team, we are 3 to 5 years away. I just hope our management does not do what they have always done in the past, think we are really close, get impatient, trade away a bunch of prospects/picks for suspect talent (Raycroft, Nolan, ect) and continue the historical cycle of stupid that runs through the halls of MLSE.

I like Trouba, Hamilton, Faulk, Tanev but not at the cost of overpaying with our prospects/picks and isn't that the usual MO of GM's, rob the other guy blind? No thanks to big ticket trades.

Minus the part about Subban, I agree heavily with this.

 

[SniperOnTheWing]

I'd like Subban and the term he'd come with but not for the price he'd command

 

[tmlfan98]

Nylander and Gardiner for Skinner and Pesce (if we sign Tavares).

 

[bluumax]

I'm Canadian and don't type American either.
I guess the Brit spelling is better than the French though.

English spelling*

 

[Zizzzzy]

A larger than life type like PK would change the entire dynamic of the room. Contract aside, skill aside, not sure PK is a fit with what we have here. Pass . Karlsson to me is a nightmare in the making, I see declining asset and big time regret. OEL I’d have serious interest.

Agree completely on PK. He would want to come to Toronto in a heartbeat as I feel he wants to be the next Don Cherry, where better to be.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

yes. some of the answers are on the marlies.
but that doesn't mean all of them are.
it also doesn't mean every single trade is going to be bad.

I think his point is there's no reason to give up prospects and gamble on a big contract whenif they're not even remotely close to a championship.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I think his point is there's no reason to give up prospects and gamble on a big contract whenif they're not even remotely close to a championship.

every move you make is a gamble.
you get the players that make your team better. period.

there's no big white board that has this mystery date of when the Leafs can be close to a championship. make the moves that make the team good, and then see how the season plays out.

 

[Bluelines]

So the Norris is given out based on popularity? And Team Canada is picked based on popularity? You say you wouldn't offer the towel boy for Subban and are calling me glib and uneducated? Time to sleep it off dude.

Of course it is a popularity contest, it's based on a persons opinion and not on quantifiable defenceman metrics.

Maybe you are not a well read person but its not hard to find stories about how Hockey Canada has in some cases a reputation for selection by politics/reputation vs merit.

 

[Boutette]

Ive lingered on here for 10 years and the following has always been true;

- Prospects are worth more than proven vets
- Unless its the next coming of Gretzky/Orr its trash and worthless
- Every prospect is the next coming of Gretzky/Orr and therefore is untouchable

Joking aside, the JFJ era has scared pretty much every leaf fan into a state of "cant trade the kids" no matter what, pretty soon though we will have to start cracking some eggs to make this omelette.

It goes way past the JFJ era. This team has a long and storied history of trading highly skilled youngsters who go on to have pretty good careers for GUD PRO plugs. So yeah, by all means trade a Russ Courtnall or a Freddy Modin. Just try to aim higher than a John Kordic or a Cory Cross in return, please.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Of course it is a popularity contest, it's based on a persons opinion and not on quantifiable defenceman metrics.

Maybe you are not a well read person but its not hard to find stories about how Hockey Canada has in some cases a reputation for selection by politics/reputation vs merit.

The Norris isn't based on "a persons" opinion, it's based on the opinions of many people. There are no reliable metrics to decide who's the best anyway so you're whining about nothing. Team Canada's roster is also based on "opinions" but I'll take their opinion over yours any day. Bottom line is that whoever wins the Norris is a very good player, and to suggest that it wouldn't be worth trading our towel boy for such a player is ridiculous. You offered up a ridiculous opinion, most people would just admit that they went overboard and retract their statement. You have instead chosen to resort to insults - first you called my response "glib and uneducated", now it's maybe I'm not "well read". Your original post was a joke and you resorting to insults to deflect criticism is an even bigger joke. I'm done with you, have a nice day.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It goes way past the JFJ era. This team has a long and storied history of trading highly skilled youngsters who go on to have pretty good careers for GUD PRO plugs. So yeah, by all means trade a Russ Courtnall or a Freddy Modin. Just try to aim higher than a John Kordic or a Cory Cross in return, please.

Haha yeah, that's fair but I think we can put the past behind us. I understand your concern and I've lived through all this past nonsense same as you but I'm not worried at all - I think we're in good hands with Dubas. I read here recently that the Courtnall trade was a good one for us (yes, really) so I think it would be wise to take what people say here too seriously.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Yep agree with you on Subban and Karlson, they are both super stars that drive their coaches mad when they have to play in their own end.

Yup. To give up the necessary assets and blow close to 10 million in cap space for Jake Gardiner on steroids? No thanks.

 

[Lightsol]

It goes way past the JFJ era. This team has a long and storied history of trading highly skilled youngsters who go on to have pretty good careers for GUD PRO plugs. So yeah, by all means trade a Russ Courtnall or a Freddy Modin. Just try to aim higher than a John Kordic or a Cory Cross in return, please.

That deal wasn't a masterpiece by any means, but it seems to me you've forgotten how ABSOLUTE SHIT Modin was here in Toronto. There's the prime definition of a guy with all the tools and no toolbox...

 

[ACC1224]

Of course it is a popularity contest, it's based on a persons opinion and not on quantifiable defenceman metrics.

Maybe you are not a well read person but its not hard to find stories about how Hockey Canada has in some cases a reputation for selection by politics/reputation vs merit.

Thankfully the Leafs haven't had to worry about those popular Norris, Conn Smythe or Hart winners, they'd be doomed.
The popular Calder winner could drag them down though.