Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by ColoradoHockeyFan, Mar 9, 2005.
I really missed these two
Sounds like both sides are intent on getting a deal done. It's definetely going to take a while but May 1st isn't unreasonable. Get it done boys!
either way, there is no hockey this year
But I think we all want an entry draft and hockey in the fall with real players....
It will be interesting who is leaving what on the table. This will get real ugly if both sides go back to their September offers/stances.
Just the thought of the having to start this all over again gives me a headache.
They'd better be intent this time. I can tell you many more teams that were hardliners or on the fence before are now off the fence when they see the losses piling up. They want a season and WITH the real players. Teams with heavy taxes like Montreal want to play and would've taken a deal at 45M. Gillett even has admitted that with the property taxes Montreal pays, he'd much rather be playing right now. Oh sure, guys like Jacobs say the same thing but they can live with an inactive NHL as long as he eventually gets what he want: cost certainty, equity and a crushed union. These are businessmen. For the most part, save perhaps Edmonton (who has maintained they want equal footing when it comes to salaries), these guys are doing it for business reasons only. They could care less about competitive balance. As for the nearly-as-idiotic hardline players, they want the best money they can get but are business people because they'd rather not play at all in the NHL than play for a pay cut.
Why? How the hell do you think this would get resolved? Suck it up
I think Daly has been overal the most approachable guy in all of this, and often seeming like the man with the most common sense... I had some respect for Saskin, but he managed to blow all that when the season was canned.(the 2nd time)
What would I like to see come out of this meeting...
Don't talk about the details of the issues.. Talk about when you are going to talk about the issues..
Plan out a two-three week attack.
Talk about changes to the game, something easy that does not involve money and is best for both sides.
UFA Age, other details surounding it
Arbitration: From the Players Side, what their rights are going to be.
Day Four: From the Owners Side, what their rights are going to be.
Waviers, Injury compesation,and Cutting players(easy after arbitration rights)
Various other minor details: Draft.
Day off to assess each sides situation resulting from first week of talks.
Hard Cap+Lux Tax issue, find a set of numbers that work for both sides.
What counts against the Cap:
Final issues, clear up, clean up.
Anounce 2005-2006 Season.
After 13 Days, if deal is not done, both Bob and Gary are gone.
THATS what Friday's talks should be about..
Newsflash to these PA idiots.....!!! Here's how it should go: Sense of Urgency timetable to make sure the PA knows exactly what path their ******ed leader has led them down. Publish this "timetable" and as each deadline approaches cross off the date and what could have been the Cap. Goodenow thinks he's a tough guy ??? lets see how GD tough he is when the PA will be well aware of each passing date.
April 1st 42.5 million
April 15 37.5 million
May 1st 32.5 million
May 15th 27.5 million
June 1..Cancel 2005-2006 season as it relates to any NHLPA member.
I'm not sure how well it would go over, but I love the idea.
Thats exactly the problem..
Thats not negoitation, thats outright DEMANDING.
The PA should NOT bow to NHL pressure to take EVERYTHING the NHL wants...
PA has given alot..
the 24% rollback is bigger than anyone gives credit for...and working into a hard cap system is another big move..
The way I see it, the owners need to give something back... I know they got off linkage, but if they get a cap around 40 million, they don't need linkage. If the lockout had not happend, I highly doubt the NHL's value would have dropped anymore and with teams making a bit of money with the hard cap in place, investing in the NHL would have been a safer bet.
If the owners would place a clause that after 3-4 seasons an independent board would examine the earnings of the league(say they get past 2.8 billion or something legit past the pre-lockout numbers), and then adjust the Cap upward accordingly( a debateable number since there is no current cap number to work off of).. With NO risk to the players that the cap would go down...
Why only one way linkage, well.. The players are giving everything..The owners are not granting ANYTHING new to the players in this agreement..This would also result in a player commitment to make the game better..
Another, safer bone the Owners could throw is the SFC bonus, cap free..
Allow teams to put up to 5 million in bonus clause's into contracts if they make the Stanley Cup Finals... Playoffs=profits.. soo
Or perhaps cut the players into a small % of playoff game revenue past the 2nd round. For each home game a team plays, perhaps the players of that team get 1-2% of the gate back.
Owners need something to make the players bite if they want to get the players attention.
Owners have the hand it seems to crush the Union, or at the very least to bring in replacements... but, they need the players... and they need their talent..
The 24% roll back is almost a non issue now.
Now that this season is over, so are a whole slew of the outstanding contracts. What's left going into next season? Less than 200 players still under contract? How many of those really carry huge figures?
I would expect this to be one of the first things pulled off the table by the union and would be surprised if this decision caused any great problems with the league considering the supposed urgency in moving ahead with next season.
People often talk about completing a deal that makes both sides looklike winners. This is the type of thing that can save Goodenow alot of face with the players and it doesn't have that much effect on the owners in the process.
I think if the owners were to look at a more PA friendly way to revenue share, then good things could happen...But for that to happen Bettman would have to talk to the Jacobs,and Wirtz's of the ownership group and I don't know if GB could change their minds on anything...I would like to be optomistic, but I just can't be...gonna be alot of foolishness and more broo-ha-ha coming from these guys in the coming weeks. Fire Gary and Knob and a deal would be done in weeks.
I think the big money deals are the remaning deals?
Like Yashin, Peca, Sakic, Blake, Fedorov, Modano, just to name a few...
So the rollback still means something..
Plus, if they apply the rollback to all past contracts in terms of thier arbitration and UFA comparison value, its still worth a boat load?
I think if it had been up to Daly and Saskin a deal would have been done months ago.
*considers suicide instead of going thru all of this again*
The 24% rollback was withdrawn by the union after the latest meeting was announced.
Hardcap = big move.
rollback = m'eh
Most of them are off contract come July 1 anyway. If owners get 2-way arbitration the 24% rollback won't mean much. So let the ones with current contract keep their full salaries for the duration of their contracts. The rest will get sorted with time.
Lets even grandfather the cap in. The UFA market will be very depressed with the rich teams out the market for 3 or 4 years and it will depress other salary but will eventually reach equalibrium.
I'm 100% certain hockey will start on time next season. It may be replacement players, but there will be NHL hockey.
If it's NHLPA players that's just icing on the cake.
I don't understand what you said? Explain?
I won't get sick of Daly, he's just such an awesome guy it seems, he seems like the guy who cared the most, and was the most flabergasted after the entire affair, he really seemed the most remorseful towards the fans. Saskin on the other hand is a snivelling little toad.
Bull it was. Oh yeah the players came out and said the 24% rollback was off the table and the league came back and said linkage was back on. But everyone here knows that if the players come to the meeting on Friday and tell the league that they will take the $42.5M cap, the league would take it. And just the fact that it was there once, means its still there.
It's just like going to court, the judge may tell the jurors to disregard the testimony, but in the back of their mind, they still use that testimony to come to a conclusion.
Once something is on the table, it never truly goes off. The league and the players, both know that.
We are screwed if:
The NHL comes back with linkage
The NHLPA comes back with no-cap
I doubt that either side will...I actually hold a glimer of hope that a deal will be done sometime in the next month...
But that may be dashed on Friday...
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