TSN ranks the top 25 NHL players of all time

[MadLuke]

-In 83-84 it was 3.94
-In 85-85, 3.97
-In 1982 it was 4.01

-Besides the small run between 1918 and 1922, the early 80's was the highest scoring era in NHL league history.


NHL League Averages | Hockey-Reference.com

Oh sorry, was looking at GAA on that page instead of Goal.

Highest scoring yes, for teams, not for first liner/first power play unit, 92-93 had more powerplay for them, look at the top 15 scorer in 92-93 and 83-84:

83-84:

1.	Wayne Gretzky* • EDM	205
2.	Paul Coffey* • EDM	126
3.	Michel Goulet* • QUE	121
4.	Peter Stastny* • QUE	119
5.	Mike Bossy* • NYI	118
6.	Barry Pederson • BOS	116
7.	Jari Kurri* • EDM	113
8.	Bryan Trottier* • NYI	111
9.	Bernie Federko* • STL	107
10.	Rick Middleton • BOS	105
11.	Dale Hawerchuk* • WIN	102
12.	Mark Messier* • EDM	101
13.	Glenn Anderson* • EDM	99
14.	Ray Bourque* • BOS	96
15.	Bernie Nicholls • LAK	95

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1.	Mario Lemieux* • PIT	160
2.	Pat LaFontaine* • BUF	148
3.	Adam Oates* • BOS	142
4.	Steve Yzerman* • DET	137
5.	Pierre Turgeon • NYI	132
	Teemu Selanne* • WIN	132
7.	Doug Gilmour* • TOR	127
	Alexander Mogilny • BUF	127
9.	Luc Robitaille* • LAK	125
10.	Mark Recchi* • PHI	123
11.	Mats Sundin* • QUE	114
12.	Kevin Stevens • PIT	111
13.	Pavel Bure* • VAN	110
14.	Rick Tocchet • PIT	109
15.	Jeremy Roenick • CHI	107

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

For top scorer, 92-93 with is near record power plays was one of the best year ever. 92-93 had 21 players with 100 points vs 12 in 83-84, 14 player scored 50 goals in 92-93 vs 8 in 83-84....

 

[JP Nolan]

Doesn't Lidstrom have the far superior Norris resume vs. Pronger and they played at the exact same time?

Lidtsrom was a product of his team....He is highly over rated.....Guy played with Chelios who did all the dirty work...Played with FEDEROV the greatest defensive forward this side of Bergeron, played with Draper who was another great checking center....Yzerman became an above average defensive player....Murphy was another defensive HOFer.....Lidstrom was a great player position wise. But he did not hit anyone, was not physical on his opponent......Defenseman are supposed to hit people.......DENNIS POTVIN was a way better player then Lidstrom....And Bourque was way way better......I think Lidstrom may be the most over rated player ever...

 

[unknown33]

Current player (Crosby & Ovi) placement is always controversial and Sawchuk is too high

Other than that pretty good

 

[yababy]

Crosby ahead of Bobby Hull, and Bobby Hull not in the top 5-6 is a joke
Bobby Hull only compiled NHL stats through age 33, and still scored 604 G. If Art and Bill Wirtz weren't super cheap, he would be talked about with Gretzky and Howe as one of the greatest forwards of all time.

Two factors hurting Hull
1, only one cup
2. Bolted to the WHA

 

[Slap]

Mario at 4?????? 4?????????? I could argue he was the best pure hockey player EVER.

4???? ROFL

Here is how you decide who was the best player. IF each were in there prime and you conducted a fantasy draft, what would be the order.

I would argue that the majority of GM's would take Mario #1. That's a fact

No one would take Mario over Gretzky and Orr. There is a small but clear gap between these two and Mario.

 

[Slap]

How do you even compare modern day players to the old ones? Would Gretzky be as good without Semenko and Messier protecting him? How would he fair now? They need a cut off point to reflect the different styles.

I don't have a problem comparing old players to modern ones. Gretzky was still great in the late 90's and he would be great now. It's the ancient players who no one even saw play I have problems with.
It's nonsensical to add Hooley O'Callahan of the Saskatoon Lumberjacks 1901 team to the mix with modern hockey players just because you found a newspaper article from your local newspaper museum saying gee whiz the lad sure can play.

 

[KJoe88]

Lidtsrom was a product of his team....He is highly over rated.....Guy played with Chelios who did all the dirty work...Played with FEDEROV the greatest defensive forward this side of Bergeron, played with Draper who was another great checking center....Yzerman became an above average defensive player....Murphy was another defensive HOFer.....Lidstrom was a great player position wise. But he did not hit anyone, was not physical on his opponent......Defenseman are supposed to hit people.......DENNIS POTVIN was a way better player then Lidstrom....And Bourque was way way better......I think Lidstrom may be the most over rated player ever...

Lol. Seriously.

The Wings were as great for as long as they were BECAUSE of Lidstrom, who imo, is the greatest defenseman of all time.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I dunno. Am I the only one who is ready to put Crosby over Beliveau and Harvey?

 

[tmurfin]

Lidtsrom was a product of his team....He is highly over rated.....Guy played with Chelios who did all the dirty work...Played with FEDEROV the greatest defensive forward this side of Bergeron, played with Draper who was another great checking center....Yzerman became an above average defensive player....Murphy was another defensive HOFer.....Lidstrom was a great player position wise. But he did not hit anyone, was not physical on his opponent......Defenseman are supposed to hit people.......DENNIS POTVIN was a way better player then Lidstrom....And Bourque was way way better......I think Lidstrom may be the most over rated player ever...

This honestly might be one of the worst posts I've ever read on here. And I've read some real doozies.

 

[1865]

I only really clicked the link because I’d convinced myself they’d put Toews in there somewhere

 

[Bizz]

>CTRL-F
>"Mike Bossy"
>0 results found

what a terrible list.

If Eddie Shore's injury-shortened career can make the list Bossy should be on there as well.

 

[saffronleaf]

Lidstrom, Jagr and Hasek were underrated by TSN.

 

[rhinoshawarma]

These kinds of lists are very hard to make. That being said, this list is decent.

 

[unknown33]

>CTRL-F
>"Mike Bossy"
>0 results found

what a terrible list.

If Eddie Shore's injury-shortened career can make the list Bossy should be on there as well.

You're mixing something up here? Shore played 14 NHL seasons and retired from the NHL when he was 37 y.o.

 

[JP Nolan]

This honestly might be one of the worst posts I've ever read on here. And I've read some real doozies.

You guys are the same guys who used to say Holland was the leagues best GM.....LOL, Everything with you Detroiters was the best....Yzerman was the best.....Holland was the best, Lidstrom was the best........Please....That 90's Wing team was store bought.....Lidstrom was a great player....But not even close to the Bourques or the Potvins...Because they played the position. They hit people.....Please dont give me Lidstrom was so good he did not have to hit people......I know, Federov was great defensively...BECAUSE of Lidtsrom......Pleeez.....Get over it. The most over rated player in the last 40 years.

 

[KingBran]

In

in what universe. I'm a big fan of prime bad consistency but at a certain point it just doesn't matter

My universe. Duh.

 

[The Panther]

I don't know why I'm setting myself up for disappointment, but as you seem confused by NHL/hockey history, I'm going to try to pitch in:

-In 1979 dilution started.

It's probably better to study some history before you make incorrect statements like this.

If you want to say when N.A. pro-hockey "dilution" started, that would be 1967 for obvious reasons. Then, because of the WHA, it got radically further "diluted" from about 1972, reaching a "dilution peak" around 1975. In 1975-76, there were 14 pro teams in the WHA, and 18 pro teams in the NHL, for a total of 32 pro teams -- more than today.

In 1979, the WHA folded and the NHL absorbed 4 of its teams to move from 17 to 21 teams. (This number stayed the same for 12 years, until 1991 when the Sharks were added.) In other words, 1979 was actually a reduction of teams, not an increase. In 1978-79, there had been 23 teams (plus one more than didn't finish the WHA season), and in 1979-80 there were 21. About 50+ well-paying jobs for pro-hockey players were cut in 1979.

4 teams from the WHA were added to the NHL, the same year the Great One entered the NHL. Do you know how bad some of these new teams were? They didnt just cherry pick players like Vegas did. The Jets were -154 in goal differential, NEGATIVE 154 in goals against. The Whalers were -87, Devils -86, Wings -87, Nordiques -75.

I don't know why you think this started in 1979. It didn't. Consider Bobby Orr and the Bruins in 1970-71, a season when Boston had scoring leaders number 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, and 9 in the NHL. How much parity was there? 8 of 14 teams (57% of the NHL) were in their 1st to 4th season in the League. While the powerhouse Bruins scored 399 goals, the Minnesota North Stars scored 191, a difference of 209 goals. The Rangers allowed 177 goals against, while the California Golden Seals allowed 320.

Fast-forward to 1992-93: Detroit and Pittsburgh scored 369 and 367 goals respectively, while Ottawa and San Jose scored 202 and 218. Pittsburgh at .708 that season, and San Jose and Ottawa at .143.

2014-15? The Rangers at .652 and Buffalo at .262.

You call this competitive with parity? The talent was already secured by the Elite teams. Every team in the entire Smyth division had negative goal differential.

(It's "Smythe" -- I'm guessing you have no idea who he is...). First of all, can I ask why you're implying that Gretzky's team, the Oilers, was an "Elite team"? They were anything but. The Oilers entered the NHL with 4 protected players from their WHA team, and the NHL broke its own rule and stole one of them (Bengt Guftafsson) back, leaving Edmonton 3 players to enter the NHL with. They were Gretzky and a bunch of scrubs, and got the last draft pick of all teams.

Despite this, the Oilers made the playoffs in their first season. They were 20-37-12 as late as March 9th and nowhere near the playoffs, but then went 8-2-1 to end the season, with Gretzky getting 24 points in those 11 games. Gretzky was still the age of an Ontario high-school student, but had the best PPG in the NHL, and would continue to do so every season until 1988-89 (and would do so again in 1990-91 and 1993-94). As someone else said, the Oilers were Hartford but for Gretzky's presence.

Talent was not "secured by elite teams" in 1979. The NHL draft had been in full force for several years, and no team had a particular monopoly.

In fact, the disparity and diversion of NHL talent was probably more "fair" in Gretzky's prime years than at any time in history, with the exception of the post-Lockout era (post-2005 to now). No one team had a stranglehold on players or big contracts or big salaries, though that would start to change after Gretzky's 'trade'.

Next: No, every team in the Smythe did not have "negative goal differential". Calgary's goal-differential in the 1980s was +453.

It's true, however, that the "Western" half of the NHL (Smythe and esp. Norris divisions) were less defensive than the "Eastern" halves. So, let's see: What were the best NHL teams (regular season) in the 1980s (1980-1990), excepting Gretzky's team, Edmonton (and L.A. 1988-1990)? The answers are: Montreal, Philadelphia, Boston, Calgary, NY Islanders.

So, let's see how Gretzky did against those top teams only in those 10 years, 1980-1990:
vs. Montreal
34GP: 18 + 45 = 63PTS (1.85 PPG)
vs. Philadelphia
32GP: 29 + 41 = 70PTS (2.19 PPG)
vs. Boston
33GP: 15 + 31 = 46PTS (1.39 PPG)
vs. Calgary
77GP: 54 + 115 = 169PTS (2.19 PPG)
vs. NY Islanders
32GP: 21 + 46 = 67PTS (2.09 PPG)

In total, then, he scored 415 points in 208 games, or 2 points per game, or 160 points per 80 games.

So yeah, if Gretzky had to play against only the top-5 teams of the decade and everybody else had to play against all 20 other teams, he would have won the scoring titles by only 40 points every year instead of 75.

-Hey, lets put the Pittsburgh Penguins with Lemieux and Jagr, Recchi, Stevens, Trottier, Paul Coffey and put them up against college teams and see how the stats go.

We... already did...??

The Penguins of the early-90s played against San Jose in 1991-92 and 1992-93. The mighty Sharks, in those two seasons combined, put up a 28-129-7 record (.192), a worse two-season record than that of any team Gretzky ever faced in his prime. Meanwhile, the next season, Ottawa joined the NHL, going .143 in 1992-93 (and .220, .240, and .250 the next three after that).

So, we did see exactly what you said: the "Penguins with Lemieux and Jagr, Recchi, Stevens, Trottier, Paul Coffey... against college teams".

The new teams that entered the league all got annihilated outside of the Oilers.

I don't know which teams you're referring to here. Quebec, Hartford, Winnipeg (the 1979 entrants)? Those teams all did well at different times. The Jets had the 4th-best record in the NHL in 1985 and made the playoffs seven years in a row in the mid-80s. Quebec was a really good team in the mid-80s, having over 90 points three years in a row (90 was like 100 then), and eliminating Montreal from the playoffs in '85 and making the Conference series. Hartford was less competitive, but did finish 1st in their division (ahead of Boston, Montreal) in 1987 and made the playoffs seven years in a row.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The really criminal placement here is Hasek at #21, fifth among goalies. THAT makes no sense.

 

[The Panther]

The really criminal placement here is Hasek at #21, fifth among goalies. THAT makes no sense.

I agree. I can see an argument for Sawchuk and maybe Roy (I rate him a bit lower than most) or Plante ahead of Hasek, but certainly nobody else, and I personally have Hasek ahead of Roy and Plante.

As I recall, I thought this player-list was okay, but I did think Jagr and Hasek were too low.

 

[newfy]

-In Mario's prime he was averaging just under 3 points per game, the best in NHL league history by a huge margin, until he was diagnosed and playing with Cancer. No other player came close to 3 points per game in a single season. None. No other player, comparing peak to peak, since the existance of when the game started, was anywhere remotely close to scoring 160 points in 60 games. The fact you think Howe could score 160 in 60 games or Orr is in even bigger joke. Wayne couldnt do it at his peak.

Youre only going to convince yourself that Mario was better than Wayne. Howe's offensive absolute peak I would give an argument for Lemieux over obviously, but thats not the only thing that counts either. Howe dominated his opponents at a comparable level, even if slightly lower at his peak but he was the much better all around player and did it for 20 years. Having that player for 20 years trumps the slight edge Lemieux may have had offensively for a 2 year peak. Orr is hard to gauge because he was a dman, but theres a reason hes unanimously the best dman of all time, and many including myself would have him ranked higher.

You guys are the same guys who used to say Holland was the leagues best GM.....LOL, Everything with you Detroiters was the best....Yzerman was the best.....Holland was the best, Lidstrom was the best........Please....That 90's Wing team was store bought.....Lidstrom was a great player....But not even close to the Bourques or the Potvins...Because they played the position. They hit people.....Please dont give me Lidstrom was so good he did not have to hit people......I know, Federov was great defensively...BECAUSE of Lidtsrom......Pleeez.....Get over it. The most over rated player in the last 40 years.

Detroit made playoffs for 25 straight years, being the most successful team in the stanley cup playoffs on the backs of all those guys you just mentioned. Holland was the leagues best gm (or one of them) but hes old now and ready to retire.

Youre making yourself look stupid, the 90s team was store bought?? 8 of the top 9 scorers on the 97 wings team were either drafted by Detroit, or someone Detroit drafted and developed was traded for them (Shanahan).

And obviously last but not least, ask Eric Lindros how Lidstrom not hitting him worked out. Lindros was arguably the most physical freak of all time in the NHL. Lidstrom matched up with him in those finals and he didnt score his first goal in the series until 13 seconds left in the sweep clinching game. Lidstrom was the backbone of all those good Red Wing teams, he played half the game for them

 

[tmurfin]

You guys are the same guys who used to say Holland was the leagues best GM.....LOL, Everything with you Detroiters was the best....Yzerman was the best.....Holland was the best, Lidstrom was the best........Please....That 90's Wing team was store bought.....Lidstrom was a great player....But not even close to the Bourques or the Potvins...Because they played the position. They hit people.....Please dont give me Lidstrom was so good he did not have to hit people......I know, Federov was great defensively...BECAUSE of Lidtsrom......Pleeez.....Get over it. The most over rated player in the last 40 years.

Detroiters? Lol I'm a Flames fan bud, I got no horse in this race. I'm just saying you're way off base. Lids is easily one of the top dmen of all time

 

[Jtown]

Lemieux 4? I stopped reading after that.

 

[livewell68]

Youre only going to convince yourself that Mario was better than Wayne. Howe's offensive absolute peak I would give an argument for Lemieux over obviously, but thats not the only thing that counts either. Howe dominated his opponents at a comparable level, even if slightly lower at his peak but he was the much better all around player and did it for 20 years. Having that player for 20 years trumps the slight edge Lemieux may have had offensively for a 2 year peak. Orr is hard to gauge because he was a dman, but theres a reason hes unanimously the best dman of all time, and many including myself would have him ranked higher.



Detroit made playoffs for 25 straight years, being the most successful team in the stanley cup playoffs on the backs of all those guys you just mentioned. Holland was the leagues best gm (or one of them) but hes old now and ready to retire.

Youre making yourself look stupid, the 90s team was store bought?? 8 of the top 9 scorers on the 97 wings team were either drafted by Detroit, or someone Detroit drafted and developed was traded for them (Shanahan).

And obviously last but not least, ask Eric Lindros how Lidstrom not hitting him worked out. Lindros was arguably the most physical freak of all time in the NHL. Lidstrom matched up with him in those finals and he didnt score his first goal in the series until 13 seconds left in the sweep clinching game. Lidstrom was the backbone of all those good Red Wing teams, he played half the game for them

I agree with almost everything you said except for the last part I put in bold. Lidstrom was obviously a big factor in limiting Lindros, but let's not forget that those Red Wings were most likely the strongest two-way team in the NHL. They had 4 Selke calibre players including Fedorov, Yzerman, Maltby and Draper. It took a collective to limit Lindros.

Lindros also had certain limitations to his game offensively, that say Jagr or Lemieux didn't have. While it was proven that one can shut Lindros down, Lemieux and Jagr could never get shut down like that in the 90's. Just ask Scott Stevens about Jagr in the 1999 playoffs.

Otherwise I do agree that some people severely underrate Howe. For me, Lemieux being #4 is very fair, in fact in any single rendition of a top 100, 50, 25, 10 top lists, Lemieux is always ranked 4th. Quite frankly, Orr's peak is more impressive than Lemieux', I would go as far as saying that Orr's peak is comparable to Gretzky's considering Orr was a defenseman.

Lemieux is the single most one-dimensional player you will find in the top 5-8 range. He was lazy, couldn't be bothered to play defense, would basically stay on the ice for 28-30 minutes, and when he was tired, would sit out games, and then go on and score 8 Pts in a blowout game. For all of his heroics, Lemieux has 0 OT playoff goals in his career. Please don't give me the whole Hodgkin thing either, if maybe Lemieux took more care of his body back then, and didn't smoke, things would have been different for him.

I would pick Beliveau, Orr, Howe and Gretzky before I would pick Lemieux.

Also as mentioned, Jagr is way too low on the list, and Crosby, way too high.

 

[livewell68]

Lemieux 4? I stopped reading after that.

You do realize that with any single publication of the top 100 players ever, Lemieux has been #4 every single time right? Lemieux' peak wasn't more impressive than Gretzky's, it was comparable to Orr's and Howe, while Howe trumps Lemieux in consistency and longevity. Also I give Orr more credit for what he did being a defenseman and all, and he was exceptional on the defensive side of the puck, don't kid yourself, he was no Karlsson.

 

[PenguinSpeed]

I don't know why I'm setting myself up for disappointment, but as you seem confused by NHL/hockey history, I'm going to try to pitch in:

It's probably better to study some history before you make incorrect statements like this.

If you want to say when N.A. pro-hockey "dilution" started, that would be 1967 for obvious reasons. Then, because of the WHA, it got radically further "diluted" from about 1972, reaching a "dilution peak" around 1975. In 1975-76, there were 14 pro teams in the WHA, and 18 pro teams in the NHL, for a total of 32 pro teams -- more than today.

In 1979, the WHA folded and the NHL absorbed 4 of its teams to move from 17 to 21 teams. (This number stayed the same for 12 years, until 1991 when the Sharks were added.) In other words, 1979 was actually a reduction of teams, not an increase. In 1978-79, there had been 23 teams (plus one more than didn't finish the WHA season), and in 1979-80 there were 21. About 50+ well-paying jobs for pro-hockey players were cut in 1979.

I don't know why you think this started in 1979. It didn't. Consider Bobby Orr and the Bruins in 1970-71, a season when Boston had scoring leaders number 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, and 9 in the NHL. How much parity was there? 8 of 14 teams (57% of the NHL) were in their 1st to 4th season in the League. While the powerhouse Bruins scored 399 goals, the Minnesota North Stars scored 191, a difference of 209 goals. The Rangers allowed 177 goals against, while the California Golden Seals allowed 320.

Fast-forward to 1992-93: Detroit and Pittsburgh scored 369 and 367 goals respectively, while Ottawa and San Jose scored 202 and 218. Pittsburgh at .708 that season, and San Jose and Ottawa at .143.

2014-15? The Rangers at .652 and Buffalo at .262.

(It's "Smythe" -- I'm guessing you have no idea who he is...). First of all, can I ask why you're implying that Gretzky's team, the Oilers, was an "Elite team"? They were anything but. The Oilers entered the NHL with 4 protected players from their WHA team, and the NHL broke its own rule and stole one of them (Bengt Guftafsson) back, leaving Edmonton 3 players to enter the NHL with. They were Gretzky and a bunch of scrubs, and got the last draft pick of all teams.

Despite this, the Oilers made the playoffs in their first season. They were 20-37-12 as late as March 9th and nowhere near the playoffs, but then went 8-2-1 to end the season, with Gretzky getting 24 points in those 11 games. Gretzky was still the age of an Ontario high-school student, but had the best PPG in the NHL, and would continue to do so every season until 1988-89 (and would do so again in 1990-91 and 1993-94). As someone else said, the Oilers were Hartford but for Gretzky's presence.

Talent was not "secured by elite teams" in 1979. The NHL draft had been in full force for several years, and no team had a particular monopoly.

In fact, the disparity and diversion of NHL talent was probably more "fair" in Gretzky's prime years than at any time in history, with the exception of the post-Lockout era (post-2005 to now). No one team had a stranglehold on players or big contracts or big salaries, though that would start to change after Gretzky's 'trade'.

Next: No, every team in the Smythe did not have "negative goal differential". Calgary's goal-differential in the 1980s was +453.

It's true, however, that the "Western" half of the NHL (Smythe and esp. Norris divisions) were less defensive than the "Eastern" halves. So, let's see: What were the best NHL teams (regular season) in the 1980s (1980-1990), excepting Gretzky's team, Edmonton (and L.A. 1988-1990)? The answers are: Montreal, Philadelphia, Boston, Calgary, NY Islanders.

So, let's see how Gretzky did against those top teams only in those 10 years, 1980-1990:
vs. Montreal
34GP: 18 + 45 = 63PTS (1.85 PPG)
vs. Philadelphia
32GP: 29 + 41 = 70PTS (2.19 PPG)
vs. Boston
33GP: 15 + 31 = 46PTS (1.39 PPG)
vs. Calgary
77GP: 54 + 115 = 169PTS (2.19 PPG)
vs. NY Islanders
32GP: 21 + 46 = 67PTS (2.09 PPG)

In total, then, he scored 415 points in 208 games, or 2 points per game, or 160 points per 80 games.

So yeah, if Gretzky had to play against only the top-5 teams of the decade and everybody else had to play against all 20 other teams, he would have won the scoring titles by only 40 points every year instead of 75.

We... already did...??

The Penguins of the early-90s played against San Jose in 1991-92 and 1992-93. The mighty Sharks, in those two seasons combined, put up a 28-129-7 record (.192), a worse two-season record than that of any team Gretzky ever faced in his prime. Meanwhile, the next season, Ottawa joined the NHL, going .143 in 1992-93 (and .220, .240, and .250 the next three after that).

So, we did see exactly what you said: the "Penguins with Lemieux and Jagr, Recchi, Stevens, Trottier, Paul Coffey... against college teams".

I don't know which teams you're referring to here. Quebec, Hartford, Winnipeg (the 1979 entrants)? Those teams all did well at different times. The Jets had the 4th-best record in the NHL in 1985 and made the playoffs seven years in a row in the mid-80s. Quebec was a really good team in the mid-80s, having over 90 points three years in a row (90 was like 100 then), and eliminating Montreal from the playoffs in '85 and making the Conference series. Hartford was less competitive, but did finish 1st in their division (ahead of Boston, Montreal) in 1987 and made the playoffs seven years in a row.

-I have no idea what you are arguing. The league went from 6 to 21 teams within a 12 year period, and all the players were from coming from Canada. The talent was diluted so poorly in those years and the majority of teams overall were weak.

-The average goalie had a goals against average of 3.77. Compare that to today's game and where the goalie's rank. Scoring with a puck in Wayne's days was a piece of cake. You could of shot a basketball into the net and still averaged a point per game if you were good. Wayne wasnt competing against players all over the world, he was competing against players from 1 country, Canada. Same with Howe. Same with Orr.