Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by Balthazar, Dec 15, 2017.
Are you coming back to the NHL next year?
Jagr seems low on the initial list - longevity isn't valued? For the same reason I wouldn't mind seeing Brett Hull up there.
Makarov should be in the Top 10. Bossy -- in the Top 25. 50s Canadians are overrated. Hasek, Lidstrom, Jagr are too low. Plante, Hall, and Sawchuk are too high.
Mario at 4?????? 4?????????? I could argue he was the best pure hockey player EVER.
Here is how you decide who was the best player. IF each were in there prime and you conducted a fantasy draft, what would be the order.
I would argue that the majority of GM's would take Mario #1. That's a fact
in what universe. I'm a big fan of prime bad consistency but at a certain point it just doesn't matter
inb4 Malkin is top 25 player
Fact usually means its true. Gretzky was clearly better, Orr a different position but I would say clearly better if we're talking at their peak/prime and Howe outscored the competition at a similar rate as Lemieux did while playing a much better 2 way game, having the best longevity in history, being tougher and not being a whiner.
Mario is 4th as he should be
How do you even compare modern day players to the old ones? Would Gretzky be as good without Semenko and Messier protecting him? How would he fair now? They need a cut off point to reflect the different styles.
This is some of the worst faux shock I have ever seen. Mario at #1? Maybe in the "Wayne Gretzky fell in the Ice as a Child" Universe
-In Mario's prime he was averaging just under 3 points per game, the best in NHL league history by a huge margin, until he was diagnosed and playing with Cancer. No other player came close to 3 points per game in a single season. None. No other player, comparing peak to peak, since the existance of when the game started, was anywhere remotely close to scoring 160 points in 60 games. The fact you think Howe could score 160 in 60 games or Orr is in even bigger joke. Wayne couldnt do it at his peak.
That's a great argument if everyone had to play only one season.
You're bring a knife to a firefight. You're never going to convince us to see Mario as superior to Gretzky because Mario was not superior to Gretzky.
Where’s Toews? Should be top 10.
-I already did that.
-Wayne, when he entered the league, took advantage of a league that got inflated with brand new expansion teams that were complete garbage when the league went from 6 teams to 21 teams in 11 years. All the players in Wayne's era had juiced up stats and points because of the AHL teams moving over to the NHL, and a few of these teams were outscored by 170 goals in a single season. They collectively sucked worse, way worse, then any expansion team in league history. The talent difference between teams like Montreal and Edmonton and new expansion teams was like an NHL team playing an Elite College team.
-Here are the only meaningful stats that matter
Points Per game
No other player in NHL history is over 1.5, any era
Playoff Points Per game
No other player with a minimum 35 playoff games played is over 1.25, any era
-The only other player, era adjusted, that is close to these 2 is Sidney Crosby
-And Mario did it with Hodgkens Cancer and a Spinal Disc in his back. Wayne is better than Mario, by a thin hair. Both are far superior to Orr and Howe. Crosby is far superior to Howe. If Howe played in any other generational era besides the 6 Team era he started in back in the 40's, he would have 0 Art Ross or any other awards.
But Gretzky did better than a 160 in 60 pace in more games 2 times ?
Top ppg season in nhl history (40 games or more)
92-93 Lemieux: 2.67
81-82 Gretzky: 2.65
88-89 Lemieux: 2.62
84-85 Gretzky: 2.60
-That's not Era adjusted. This is. Scoring 6 goals a game like the Oilers did beating up on AHL and College teams needs adjusted. I still think Howe is overrated on this list. And the list doesnt factor in injuries, which impacted players like Bure and Crosby substantially.
I didn’t see an intangibles category in the chart...
160 in 60 = 2.67 per game
1983-84 - 2.77
1985-86 - 2.69
-Adjust it for Era, since the average goals scored in those 2 seasons were 4 goals per game in the NHL, league highs all time.
Looking at your adjusted number I do not see how Gretzky is not close to Lemieux ppg performance, career adjusted is 1.68 for Lemieux to 1.66 for Gretkzy with Wayne Gretzky playing 550+ more games.
I still do not understand the no other players came close to 3ppg in a season, Gretzky was the closest to a 3 ppg season no ? Or the no other player was remotly close to 160 points in 60 games, he scored 153 points in the first 51 games of the 83-84 season, he had 205 points in 74 games that year, that is an higher pace than 160pts in 60 games no ?
Wayne was on one of those garbage expansion teams. The only difference between the Oilers and the Whalers was Gretzky. That dude lifted that whole team from the get-go, something Mario never did since the Penguins missed the playoffs until year 5.
Severely underselling the great one bud
Mike Bossy, Bryan Trottier or Dennis Potvin not on the list. Mikita, Lafluer, Hull, over Bossy ? and Tottier......SORRY No.......Lidstrom over POTVIN........Sorry....
92-93 was quite a high scoring year for power play specialist/first line player in general
92-93: 3.53 gaa, 5.28 power play a game
83-84: 3.78 gaa, 4.01 power play a game
85-86: 3.86 gaa, 4.62 power play a game
83-84 top scorer (outside Wayne scoring for first liner was not far from a year like 2005-2006, he was just a ridiculous anomaly):
Player's finishing 9th in scoring in 92-93 would had enough points to win the Art Ross in 83-84 without Greztky, arguably for a player playing on the first power play 92-93 was a better year to accumulate points than 83-84 even if the total line up scored more, because of how many power play the league had that year.
Love Lemieux buddy, but you're tugging on Supermans cape
Crosby ahead of Bobby Hull, and Bobby Hull not in the top 5-6 is a joke
Bobby Hull only compiled NHL stats through age 33, and still scored 604 G. If Art and Bill Wirtz weren't super cheap, he would be talked about with Gretzky and Howe as one of the greatest forwards of all time.
-In 83-84 it was 3.94
-In 85-85, 3.97
-In 1982 it was 4.01
-Besides the small run between 1918 and 1922, the early 80's was the highest scoring era in NHL league history.
NHL League Averages | Hockey-Reference.com
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