TSN: NHLpa Rock Solid

[Brewleaguer]

So a fellow with a "long standing background in upper management in business" spends a considerable amount of his time on an internet message board arguing with teenagers over a dispute he has nothing to do with.

Likely story.

(Tell Bob I say 'Hi')

Yeah right, keep dreaming. As you can see I have around 107 posts... OH yeah thats spending 'a considerable amount of time' on the internet arguing with teens. Get real.

You all keep replying to my post on this thread, so there must be some disappointment amongst the Buttman elite that the PA is not cracking at the seams, as some have said it was. :lol

 

[richardn]

Glad the players have a spine unlike the posters in here who lick the boots of the owners and would sell their own mother.

 

[Weary]

Agreed. But the argument that you and others seem to want to extrapolate out of that is analogous to the following:

I make a mistake regarding the snow plowing 'market' and sign a contract to pay you $50 to shovel my walk each time it snows for the month rather than the $5 the job is really worth. The month expires, and I have paid $250 for the five times it snowed. I have gone into debt paying that $250, but paid it anyways. A contract is a contract and it was my fault for misreading the market. You come back and tell me that I should pay you $40 per job for the next year, instead of the $5 the job is worth, and be grateful that you came down and grateful that you recognized the problem even though it was all my fault. Then you walk off in a huff and threaten a lawsuit because I refuse to offer more than the $5 that I can afford, and that the job calls for.

Your analogy fails when you have me walking off in a huff to file a lawsuit. What really happens is that when you say you won't pay me $50, I respond by saying that I'll go to work for another company that will pay be $50. But you inform me that all the snow shoveling companies have gotten together and agreed to that no snow shoveller shall be paid more than $5. I protest that my shovelling may be worth $50 to a competing company. You say that since I'm only worth $5 to you, no company can pay me more than $5. That's when we start talking lawsuits.

 

[Mountain Dude]

Glad the players have a spine unlike the posters in here who lick the boots of the owners and would sell their own mother.

"WE WILL NEVER ACCEPT A CAP EVER" - Every member of the PA

Stuck to their guns the whole time. :lol

 

[me2]

Your analogy fails when you have me walking off in a huff to file a lawsuit. What really happens is that when you say you won't pay me $50, I respond by saying that I'll go to work for another company that will pay be $50. But you inform me that all the snow shoveling companies have gotten together and agreed to that no snow shoveller shall be paid more than $5. I protest that my shovelling may be worth $50 to a competing company. You say that since I'm only worth $5 to you, no company can pay me more than $5. That's when we start talking lawsuits.

Not all the snow shovelling companies, just all of the residents on his street. There are plenty of other residents you are free to try and exploit $50 out of. Go try the residents on UHL parade or SEL lane or RSL road.

 

[Weary]

Not all the snow shovelling companies, just all of the residents on his street. There are plenty of other residents you are free to try and exploit $50 out of. Go try the residents on UHL parade or SEL lane or RSL road.

And what right does he have to impose himself between me and another resident of the street? If someone else wants to pay me $50, I should get $50. If he's then angry because he can't get his snow shoveled for $5 -- too bad. $50 is the going rate. To say something is worth $5 when everyone pays $50 is shoddy economic theory.

 

[Mountain Dude]

And what right does he have to impose himself between me and another resident of the street? If someone else wants to pay me $50, I should get $50. If he's then angry because he can't get his snow shoveled for $5 -- too bad. $50 is the going rate. To say something is worth $5 when everyone pays $50 is shoddy economic theory.

No one is willing to pay $50.

 

[Weary]

No one is willing to pay $50.

Good. Then no need to get together and try to fix the prices. Let each negotiate for himself.

 

[me2]

Good. Then no need to get together and try to fix the prices. Let each negotiate for himself.

You run a market manipulating monopoly why shouldn't they form a collective to get more bargaining power if they want? If you don't like the collective gaining some bargaining power then go shovel snow in SEL lane at 10% of the price.

 

[vanlady]

Not at all, because the only people that are saying that they're together is Bob and his lackeys Linden, and Pronger.......he doesn't speak for the rest of them, if Commodore, Ray, all those guys come out and say, WE LOVE THE PA, then I'll believe it.

Commadore did on Sportsnet the day Gary killed the season

 

[Mountain Dude]

Good. Then no need to get together and try to fix the prices. Let each negotiate for himself.

So than dissolve the union, and let the players get screwed like they did in the 60's and 70's.

 

[Poignant Discussion*]

Glad the players have a spine unlike the posters in here who lick the boots of the owners and would sell their own mother.

Whats funny is how some of the more ignorant posters actually think the players have lost 1 red cent. Before any deal would be agreed to, the owners would have to pony up some of last years "salaries" before the professionals would take to the ice.

The owners are just playing a stalling game, and the players can stall just as long as the owners. The players have not built new buildings to play in, or are going to lose sponsers.

Maybe they won't make their millions in other leagues, BUT will make more than enough to survive. And they won't let the owners steal from them again like they did from 1913-1994

Let teams suspend operations, the players of that team will certainly be able to then go to court and get the signed salary they agreed to during the last CBA. Since the team is now not "in a lock out situation"

You can say the game is the product, but I doubt the game is capable of bringing in 2.1 billion dollars on its own. If thats the case, then the AHL, ECHL must be making billions too.

The players are the product and with no product you have no business period

 

[dunwoody_joe]

Whats funny is how some of the more ignorant posters actually think the players have lost 1 red cent. Before any deal would be agreed to, the owners would have to pony up some of last years "salaries" before the professionals would take to the ice.

The owners are just playing a stalling game, and the players can stall just as long as the owners. The players have not built new buildings to play in, or are going to lose sponsers.

Maybe they won't make their millions in other leagues, BUT will make more than enough to survive. And they won't let the owners steal from them again like they did from 1913-1994

Let teams suspend operations, the players of that team will certainly be able to then go to court and get the signed salary they agreed to during the last CBA. Since the team is now not "in a lock out situation"

You can say the game is the product, but I doubt the game is capable of bringing in 2.1 billion dollars on its own. If thats the case, then the AHL, ECHL must be making billions too.

The players are the product and with no product you have no business period

And this is the real crux of the issue. True enough that the NHLPA own the highest talent or product. The owners own the venues and the spotlight. Which is more important?

Well peanut butter is nice alone; and so is jelly. But they were meant to be together!

They really need each other more than either will admit right now. On the one side, each player is a wasting asset in that their useful pro career is time limited and the present group just lost 1 year of earning potential. On the other side, an NHL franchise isn't worth much without product and the value of franchises must diminish in this lockout.

Like little boys, too proud to settle a dispute, they are knocking the snot out of each other. And killing the game.

Fans are starting to become seriously disinterested. Forget about the general population, especially in the States. If they don't fix this soon, next year could be the death blow for the NHL.

 

[Smart Alek]

Yeah right, keep dreaming. As you can see I have around 107 posts... OH yeah thats spending 'a considerable amount of time' on the internet arguing with teens. Get real.

You all keep replying to my post on this thread, so there must be some disappointment amongst the Buttman elite that the PA is not cracking at the seams, as some have said it was. :lol

Now using homophobic-induced imagery to make your points. We are all thoroughly impressed.

And yeah, 107 posts is 'considerable' time, when it is all in the span of one month. I've seen few posters who can contribute 100 valuable posts in a single month... though I've also seen far fewer who have been capable of delivering 100 worthless posts in the same span.

Congrats, you win one award in my book. And congrats again, because you're now the 200th person on my ignore list... a considerable feat in and of itself.

P.S. Your 'laughing smilie' was quite devastating in it's 'mawking' disposition. I suggest only bringing that out when truly necessary, to better retain the element of surprise.

 

[SENSible1*]

Whats funny is how some of the more ignorant posters actually think the players have lost 1 red cent. Before any deal would be agreed to, the owners would have to pony up some of last years "salaries" before the professionals would take to the ice.

You are dreaming in technocolour.

The owners are just playing a stalling game, and the players can stall just as long as the owners. The players have not built new buildings to play in, or are going to lose sponsers.

The owners can stall for much longer than the players.

Losses in revenues will simply be reflected in payments to players. Even in the most restrictive offer, the owners offered 53% to the PA, so they PA suffers more with each dollar lost.

Maybe they won't make their millions in other leagues, BUT will make more than enough to survive.

The players have always been free to ply their trade in other leagues without having to suffer the indignity of making 10 times as much in the NHL.

And they won't let the owners steal from them again like they did from 1913-1994

Hope they enjoy decertification and the return to the "good old days"

Let teams suspend operations, the players of that team will certainly be able to then go to court and get the signed salary they agreed to during the last CBA. Since the team is now not "in a lock out situation"

The number of players under contract is limited. They'll have to make their case in court, but the NHL may contend that the contracts, like the franchise, are merely suspended and will be honoured when they re-open the doors.

You can say the game is the product, but I doubt the game is capable of bringing in 2.1 billion dollars on its own. If thats the case, then the AHL, ECHL must be making billions too.

Revenues without profits are useless. If the league generates $1B, but 10% profits they are far better off than 2.1B with 10% losses.

The players are the product and with no product you have no business period

PA members are NOT the product. They are simply the hockey players who provided a service under the old CBA. If the PA members refuse to provide their services when the doors reopen, then other hockey players will gladly take their place.

We'll soon see whether it is easier to replace hockey talent or the businessmen who provide the league for them to play in.

 

[Lil' Jimmy Norton*]

Whats funny is how some of the more ignorant posters actually think the players have lost 1 red cent. Before any deal would be agreed to, the owners would have to pony up some of last years "salaries" before the professionals would take to the ice.

The owners are just playing a stalling game, and the players can stall just as long as the owners. The players have not built new buildings to play in, or are going to lose sponsers.

Maybe they won't make their millions in other leagues, BUT will make more than enough to survive. And they won't let the owners steal from them again like they did from 1913-1994

Pony up salaries from last year ??? WRONGO ! Those are gone forever

Stalling game.... hmmm Billionaires vs Millionaires(with short career windows) we all know who wins this one.

Survival...Yes the UHL pays $700 a week.... good luck :lol

 

[svetovy poharu]

I was reading the comments of the players after yesterdays union meetings. It appears the players emerged from the meetings convinced they had conceded enough and confident that a better deal awaits them. And the players reaffirmed their full solidarity behind union boss Goodenow.

Bryan McCabe (Leafs player Rep): "I'm glad we didn't jump at the owners' cap limit. It's in the best interests of 750 guys that we wait for something that is right for everyone."

Gary Roberts: "As an older guy who might never play again, there was no way I would've voted for the owners $42.5-million offer if given the opportunity. Everyone was just looking at the number -- $42.5 million versus (the players' proposed) $49 million -- and saying 'it's only $6.5 million off.' But when you look at the guts of the deal, you realized how bad it was. We've put faith in our bargaining committee to come to us when they feel there's something on the table worth a vote."

Chris Pronger: "I think this so-called splinter faction in the union has been drummed up by media members and people trying to hope a deal gets done. Coming out of this meeting I can unequivocally say that everybody in the union is on board and understands the issues."

Brendan Shanahan: "Sometimes you're not happy with the team's performance, and you might get in the dressing room and argue a bit about it and discuss what you can do better. But when you come out for the next game, you are a team again. And that's what has happened at these meetings over the past two days. Our executive committee was hand-picked by us and we have complete faith in them."

 

[davemess]

It think its great that the Union seems to be together through this thing, thats the way it should be. Course 300+ of the members shouldnt be off elsewhere playing hockey either but thats another matter.

I was watching a news article earlier about the 20 year anniversay of the Miners Strike that happened in the UK... It was a reminder that no matter how much the Union members stick together if the Owners wont budge and have no reasons to want to budge then the Union will lose and lose bad.

187,000 Miners went on strike when one mine was to be closed, they stayed out for a year, cost the Country £3 Billion and still lost. The year they went back to work 25 mines where closed and before 7 years where out almost 100 had gone.

Its great to stick together, just dont pick a fight that you cannot win.

 

[chiavsfan]

They aren't sticking together...there was 150 people at the meeting yesterday. How can 150 people be the voice for 700? There is 550 people not represented, and this SOLID union is busy taking jobs from people in other countries...where they actually depend on hocky to "feed their families"

 

[Brewleaguer]

Now using homophobic-induced imagery to make your points. We are all thoroughly impressed.

And yeah, 107 posts is 'considerable' time, when it is all in the span of one month. I've seen few posters who can contribute 100 valuable posts in a single month... though I've also seen far fewer who have been capable of delivering 100 worthless posts in the same span.

Congrats, you win one award in my book. And congrats again, because you're now the 200th person on my ignore list... a considerable feat in and of itself.

P.S. Your 'laughing smilie' was quite devastating in it's 'mawking' disposition. I suggest only bringing that out when truly necessary, to better retain the element of surprise.

Well good for you I am glad you think it's 'considerable' amount of time. But it peanuts really.

I've become the 200th person on your ignore list??? You don't make many friends do you? Thats OK you will when you grow up.

The reason I bring out the illustrations is for people like you who have a tough time reading and comprehending, so pictures help.....

 

[chiavsfan]

I thought the union was "rock solid"

According to this article, the agents say players are always going to differ

Meehan said he could see agents and their clients differing on the issue of replacement players.



''What became clear today is that there are players who are going to have opposing views throughout this process,'' he said. ''I think there are agents within the room who are going to have their own views and I think the organizing committee for the PA will have differing views.



''That's positive. I can't think everybody is going to think the same way in relation to this whole process. To think that anybody would would be naive, and I think that extends to the other people on the other side of the fence as well.''

Full article here TSN

Sounds like this might be a circus if replacements are used

 

[triggrman]

They are. Sandstone is type of rock is it not.

 

[X0ssbar]

They are. Sandstone is type of rock is it not.

...hmm..I believe your right....sand castle comes to mind when I think about the solidtude of the NHLPA...