Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by Seachd, Oct 12, 2004.
Anyone watching this? Saskin is really dancing around those questions.
Transcripts of Both Interviews:
Bill Daly's Transcript:
Ted Saskin's Transcript:
Pretty much the same old cookie cutter stuff we've come to expect from these two, the only interesting comment I took out of it was from Saskins in regards to European players losing their jobs to NHLers during this lockout...he essentially said "too bad, that's life". It seemed to me like he wasn't expecting a question from that angle.
He certainly didn't have much sympathy towards the lower echelon NHLers either. If I'm an NHL 3rd or 4th liner/bottom pair dman, I'd like to be reminded again why exactly I'm paying union dues to an NHLPA that shows negligible interest in my job security. If that's the way it is and it's dog eat dog, fine enough...just don't expect one more red cent of union dues coming from MY bank account.
That being said, I do think Saskins made some valid points and at least came across as the more flexible of the two.
Long story short...this crap's going to get a hell of a lot worse before it gets any better. There's going to be some long lasting (if not permanent) damage done here.
Daly Backtracks on hotseat.
Well, Bob and Gord, and Damien, you did a good job. I dont know what we could of expected, but at least you put them on a hot seat as best you can.
The fact they accepted shows we are in for a long haul. I think the PA looks more flexible too.
Daly was asked about his comments that Cablevision runs the Rangers at a loss to keep its share value high elsewhere. I never said anything like that Daly says. "What I said is, owners in the National Hockey League make decisions on players and payroll for various reasons"
Ha ha Bill. You're such a terrible liar. He really seemed to be getting peeved with the impudence of these broadcasters questioning him non these things
Then he says regarding Rangers UROs. "It doesn't just capture what the New York Rangers want to report as revenues, it doesn't."
Well Bill that seems to be the problem now doesnt it. It doesnt count the revenues the way NYR and Philadelphia value them themselves. Its phony. Artificial. No possible way to base an agreement on revenues on when the owners actions dont even agree with those numbers.
Regarding Levitt, Daly says, "And verified the fact that-took his own independent look at this business and said, "what's a fair view of this business?" And he said that the unified report of operations captures it."
Levitts job was to determine whether the UROs fairly represented the business. Levitt said it did. IF we got the big 8 (are there still 8?) to prepare independent versions of UROs, would they all be different and also found a fair way of capturing the business of hockey by Levitt? Did Levitt say the UROs are the only possible way of preparing UROs to capture the businees, or just the ones that best make owners lots of money now.
Here was a great Daly quote. Bob asks if Daly would just tell the players, yes we made mistakes, its our fault, we need your help.
Well, I'm not saying any-I mean, I don't think it's true to say nobody-I mean, everybody makes mistakes at times. So I'm not going to say that the league office is not guilty of having made mistakes, I'm not going to say our owners are not guilty of having made mistakes, and I'm not going to say our general managers at times are not guilty of making mistakes. But the problem is, we're a league that's lost almost $500 million in the last 2 years and $1.8 billion over the term of this collective bargaining agreement, and that's a joint problem, that's all of our problems, and we should work together to try to solve it.
Cant say it can you Bill? We should work together to try and solve it? lol
And as for the Atlanta owners comments, he says he has only been here a few months and been to one board meeting. Gary has talked to him and he now regrets what he said. Daly actually tries to discredit him. I thought that was pretty funny. Uncalled for, unauthorized and dont represent our views. He is a junior owner with no attendance, a rookie, and doesnt really know whats going on. Presumably he is just going to follow the rich owners who have the real power.
We want to negotiate a deal witjh the players association, not break the union. Thats why we're here on TV refusing to bargain. The sooner they accept our way, the sooner we can negotiate
Daly: They dont want to believe our numbers thats their problem, not ours.
Little hot under the collar bill?
Daly suggests if the union want to stand behind their numbers, thats something were willing to do. Its all fine and well I guess to say lowering the rookie cap, changing bonuses and instituting revenue sharing through payroll taxes will saves so much money, but prove it. Hold back part of your salaries, and if we foolishly overspend thiniing we can get it back from the escrow fund, we can recover our losses.
Stupid I know, but maybe its a path.
Cox: Why lay off staffers with a warchest?
Daly:Its the teams warchest.
Cox: what about leadership
Daly:Leadership being paid at desire of ownership.
One intersting thing from Daly was when he suggested the NFL didnt really break the union. Well they did, but then the NFLPA won anti trust suits which left the owners in so much liability they agreed to a cap.
Is this his plan? Turn the league into a minor league, lower its revenues, lose all the court cases, and then say well you have to negoitiate with us now?
Bill Daly: Well, there's a lot of reasonable ways of addressing the revenue disparity and we think we have better ways of addressing them
Well lets hear them Bill. IF there lots of ways, why is it cap or the highway?
Quote=Bill Daly] But it's not a revenue-well, why wouldn't they agree to it, is what I'd counter that with. I don't understand-the revenues are what they are. But this hasn't been a revenue problem. We've grown our revenues 160% in the 10 years of this collective bargaining agreement, which is a higher percentage than many other sports leagues, including the major ones. OK, so this isn't a revenue-generation problem at all. This is player costs that have gone out of control as a result of the system
Well why wouldnt they? Its like he really doesnt know. Hockeys revenue have grown faster than any other league, EVEN THE MAJOR ONES!
You dont want to be a major league any more Bill? This is good marketing? At least we know from the horses mouth, or one side of the horse anyway, its not a revenue generation problem. We fans can stop with ways of trying to make them more money.
I love this answer, what a lawyer. Gord asks if it 6 teams losing 75% of the money.
Ha ha ha So lets get Dalys math down. 75% of the $224mil in losses DO conme from 6 teams, and $130mil from the other 14 teams. Let me get out my calculator. Oops,.my fault, losses are back up to $300mil. this week. Because in this case we arent looking at a league overall number but the individual losses. We then take those individual losses to come up with a general league wide number that also applies to the teams making money.
Bill Daly: I'm not saying anything-I'm saying we're going to negotiate until we have an agreement
Saskin calls it : Concessionary bargaining. An interesting term. Does Daly agree?
Bob asked Sakin: are fans wrong?
Saskin cant say yes. But thats the answer. We havent been provided with accurate enough information to be right
When Gord reminded how the public rose up in arms against the idea of tax money going to millionaire hockey players. It was going to billionaire owners.
Here was an impressive statemtnt from Saskin:
Certainly I would invest my money in the Edmonton Oilers. Especially with cdn dollar now.
Yankess and Red Sox an example of something not working. Yet, what are the ratings for this series.
WHy should Cinderalla win against Det. Bob? Is it to be expected to happen often? IS the run itself not success enough for a cinderella?
If we didnt have an impotent bunch of mindless sycophants in the NHL Fan association, season ticket holders would start demanding their money back now in an organized display of power. And then make them beg us to renew. Obviously our demands will be for lower ticket prices too when they get their heads out of their butts.
Funny how the public didn't complain (to the same degree) when the government bailed out Air Canada.
Anyways, I also thought it was interesting when Daly admitted that the PA is essentially representing the higher skilled players in the league.
I also liked how the panel made Daly appear foolish by first making him say that there is no sympathy for Europeans who lost their hockey jobs to the players that went overseas but then when asked about replacement players he said he doesn't agree with it.
Another interesting part I saw was when Cox made him admit that a salary cap is workable (an entry cap is already implaced with consessions) except that the union just doesn't feel like negotiating on a cap.
And that is the backbone of the lockout... owners can't afford to keep the league running at its current state and require a stark contrast in the new CBA... players can afford to play for a couple million dollars instead of several million dollars
I believe that the union needs to make major consessions for the negotiations but the one thing I agree with the union is a high percentage of revenue sharing.
The Hot Seat wasn't a complete waste of time. There were good points brought up by the panel.
The TSN guys did a darned good job, their questions weren't fluffy, which always bugs me about CBC sometimes. The only problem is that we didn't really learn anything new. The answers were well rehearsed, I was reminded of a Presidential debate. No one's mind will be changed after that. Full marks to TSN though.
If I had to pick a winner, Saskin seemed more believable. This nonsense about the six teams and the majority of losses has to be fleshed out. Give us the list Bill, which teams are on there. Is all this crap going on to save the Rangers?
I thought it was interesting when Gord asked Saskin if he would invest in the NHL. "Certain teams, certain situations" was the reply.
Saskin specifically stated that the Oiles' economics were in great shape. Who is this lock-out all about than?....the Rangers?
Why is it no connection to revenue or the highway for the players?
Big deal. Hockey revenue is still nowhere near that of the bigger sports. Are all the players suffering from Al MacInnis syndrome?
We have all we need. We know the League wants a deal that will keep teams in our cities, and keep them competitive at the same time. The Union doesn't want that because it might cut into their salaries. That prevents us from seeing hockey. That's all we need to know.
And Saskin could kiss that money goodbye in a massive hurry under the current system or the NHLPA's "proposal". It would be a pretty stupid decision.
Yeah, it's because of payroll. Probably has nothing to do with the rivalry.
I wouldn't think so.
All Saskin talked about is a "fair system" for the players. Is 55+% of revenues or whatever the league was offering not fair? That's comparable to the other leagues. "Fair" would probably be about 50%, wouldn't it? No matter what the new CBA looks like, it will be much more than fair for the players.
One of Saskin's funnier statements was this: "Well Damien, effectively people are taking people's jobs everyday in the National Hockey League. Our guys fight for their jobs every night, every shift. That's the way it works. And right now they are locked out and they are looking at opportunities where some of their home countries want to see these players play, it is a great opportunity for them to play in front of their home fans they are doing it, frankly, for amounts of money that hardly covers their insurance risks."
Saskin doesn't seem to realize that when an NHL millionaire loses a job, it's to another millionaire. Now these millionaires are taking jobs away from people who need the money a lot more than they do. Unreal how he walked around that one.
The fact that Saskin thinks the NHL is a good business right now is amazing.
Like the writers said after the questions, the NHLPA is extremely out of touch with reality, and the lower-paid players should be worried, because their union obviously doesn't care about them at all.
Yep, I watched, and both sides are STUCK on the whole salary cap issue! As long as that's the problem, the nhl is SCREWED! I feel for the younger players, because it seems like all the NHLPA cares about is protecting the great big star ones. Both sides are incredibly stubborn, and I really fear that the nhl will be wiped out
Are there no grocery bagging jobs in Europe? No factory openings? No sales or teaching positions of any kind available?
Those men who aren't good enough to play a boys game for money can join the rest of the working world.
When there are perfectly good jobs waiting for them where they'll make well over 50% of $2 billion, saying "find your own job" isn't much of an excuse. It's actually pretty petty.
No no... I'm talking about the displaced European League players. It's pretty hard to swallow their sob stories about "feeding their families" playing hockey.
the owners of the european teams are now raking it in - have you seen the fans freaking out? -
i'm watching it now - late west coast re-run - being pro player i have to admit - they're both goofs -
why are they doing this?
Apparently 30,000 people came out to see Ovechkin vs Kovalchuk. Pretty impressive what star power can do for the bottomline eh.
Hey Scrooge, your line is supposed to be "Are there no prisons, are there no workhouses..."
GMAFB. So if some millionaire gets your job he doesn't even need in a publicity stunt, that makes you useless? So if Donald Trump gets hired to replace you, you're perfectly ok with that?
And of course, that means you fully support replacement players, and will welcome them with open arms next year in the NHL.
LOL. It's not like they're in a job category that will take them to the age of 65. Sooner or later they'll have to start a second career anyways.
of course its ok ... why wouldnt it be ? are you not confident enough in yourself that if your organization decided to replace you, THEY, not you, would be worse off ?
i have no fear of losing my job, it would my employers loss, not mine.
So then DR I can assume that you are at the pinnacle of your field? There isn't another person in the world that could do what you do better? Given that there is more then likely a group of people that could do your job better then you...
A number of very rich, superskilled people doing your job came into town and all the businesses decided to take the superstars and fire all the regular people. And to make it worse since so many superstars came to town and took so many jobs, there are very few openings left in your field. What do you do then?
That is what these guys in Europe are experiencing. And I feel bad for them.
Anyone notice how TSN wanted Saskin to tie himself to the baseball model and were ready to jump in ? McGuire was on Mtl. radio an hour before,claiming Donald Fehr has been communicating directly with NHLPA members.
im sure there are people capable of doing my job, of course. what i am saying is that i dont fear losing my job because i am confident in my skill sets that the competition would be very happy to see me as a a "free agent".
here is an interesting dynamic of the entire argument. one one hand, the pro cappers are saying "business has a right to make money". ok, i buy that ! how come then they also dont have a right to hire the best when the best are available ? if my business had a chance to hire a superskilled person who is at the pinnacle of their field, why should they be discouraged from doing so ? who cares if it knocks out a lower skilled person, isnt it best for the business to have the best people ?
why is everyone so "lets protect the week at the expense of excellence" ?
anyhow, this is off topic.
I get a kick out of how fast Saskin backpeddled on the whole NFL and NBA issue... He says that they NFL and NBA caps are horrible for the players... There is no way the NHL will accept them because of how bad they are for players... The TSN staff brings up the fact that the head of the players union in the NFL and the NBA have gone on record as saying they love their cap and they are looking at extending it... Sasking says, well all the players we're talking to disagree with that...
So, you have proof from the heads of those unions that it is working, but you refuse to admit it... I honestly wonder how many disgruntled NBA and NFL players they have talked to about the issue...
Ok, I understand your logic to a point... But there is one major flaw in it...
In the situation you are talking about, where some super skilled employee came in and took your job, I'd understand that it's good for the business to let you go and hire that skilled employee... BUT, how would you feel, if that skilled employee had no intention of keeping the job, and only planned on staying on for a couple of months and then going back to his posh lifestyle making 10 times as much money after going slumming for a couple of months? How would you feel during those few months while you're struggling to put food on the table for your family, just so that skilled employee can take your job for a matter of a few months, then leave...
If the skilled employee had every intention of staying on with the company permanently then fine, it makes business sense to keep him... But if his plans are to "go slumming" for a couple of months and then leave, and in the process you put your loyal staff members through hardship during those couple of months, then it makes no business sense to me at all... How can you expect that loyal employee to come back after that without any resentment towards the company?
It's the same with the European hockey situation... These NHL players aren't planning on staying there (with the odd exception)... They are only over there until things blow over with the NHL... In the meantime, they put all of these hard working European players out of jobs and make them suffer through hardship... And in a few months time, these loyal players will be expected to come back... If I was one of them, I wouldn't be too happy with me team... or too loyal to them from that point on either...
Saskin is missing some teeth too, I saw one large tooth in the top of his mouth.
The NHLPA keep proving they don't care about hockey or the fans, and they are out of touch with the real world.
The Cap works, and will work in the NHL, not a hard cap, but even a soft cap with hard taxes. These are overpaid bums. Bring on the replacement players I will suppourt them more then I will these current asswholes. **** Trevor Linden to I hope some shoots one of his testicles off.
Let me ask you this, why aren't the owners offering up a soft cap? But yet you find it easy to blame the players even though they are the ones who atleast put a luxury tax in their proposal. Sure the players luxury tax is weak, but it's more than the owners have done.
Separate names with a comma.