[TSN]: Goals should be worth two points

grieves

silent prayer
Apr 27, 2016
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It's fine the way it is. A lot of times it's the primary (sometimes secondary) assist that creates easy goals.

Not a bad move. It might be underappreciating goals slightly but it should be a relatively safe number.
 

MattySnipes

Registered User
Jan 26, 2018
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'Mecca' of Hockey
Not a bad move. It might be underappreciating goals slightly but it should be a relatively safe number.
I value goals more than assists tbh. But it's fine the way it is. Just compare players without using secondary assists since they don't seem to be much of a factor anyway.
 

grieves

silent prayer
Apr 27, 2016
3,556
2,672
I value goals more than assists tbh. But it's fine the way it is. Just compare players without using secondary assists since they don't seem to be much of a factor anyway.

We can have differing opinions but after reading the articles I linked, I can't really unread that anymore.

But to each their own of course.

I'm not saying we should change how we calculate points because I think that ship has sailed, but I have barely seen talk about how to properly valuate those points. Now I think I have at least some idea.
 

daver

Registered User
Apr 4, 2003
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Elite playmakers are just as valuable as elite goalscorers. The best playmakers accumulate the most assists thus deserve the recognition for it.
 

Randyne

Registered User
May 20, 2012
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A lot of times it's the primary assist that creates easy goals.
A lot of times 'easy goals' misses wide open net even empty net.

Has anyone made a list of Art Ross winners if only primary assists were counted?

For now I have Sid vs Ovi stats.
By primary points only Ovi outscored Sid in 9 seasons out of 13 and have 80 primary points lead:

Ovi Sid
2005-20068883
2006-20077885
2007-200810157
2008-20098884
2009-20108887
2010-20116252
2011-20125224
2012-20134543
2013-20146870
2014-20157459
2015-20165664
2016-20175372
2017-20186962
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
 
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Name Nameless

Don't go more than 10 seconds back on challenges
Apr 12, 2017
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Ok, you've convinced me. I'm going to start making general rules according to exceptions rather than what typically happens.

:huh::laugh:

You are the one here who are claiming the general rule is the assists are easier. And make up examples, or at best, show some hasty generalization for it. And when someone try to explain to you the assist-guys may have done great work they never got anything for, because the men with the easy finishing-job wiffed, that is something you blow off as "one example".
 

Wo Yorfat

dumb person
Nov 7, 2016
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Haven't read through, safe to assume this thread became an Ovi vs Crosby pissing contest?
 

BoredBrandonPridham

Registered User
Aug 9, 2011
7,573
4,061
And so continues the battle to dumb everything down to a scalar value to assign a player a value that is larger than or less than another player.

God forbid we value as 1 “goal” and a primary assist as 1 “primary assist”. That is “advanced”.
 

Wo Yorfat

dumb person
Nov 7, 2016
2,961
3,924
Not at all, didn't even come up until the post above.
giphy.gif
 

Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
54,151
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Pittsburgh
Hey, I also think game winning goals in shootouts should count towards that players season total.

How can you have a game winning goal but the player never really gets credited for it.
 

BoredBrandonPridham

Registered User
Aug 9, 2011
7,573
4,061
For now I have Sid vs Ovi stats.
By primary points only Ovi outscored Sid in 9 seasons out of 13 and have 80 primary points lead:

Ovi Sid
2005-20068883
2006-20077885
2007-200810157
2008-20098884
2009-20108887
2010-20116252
2011-20125224
2012-20134543
2013-20146870
2014-20157459
2015-20165664
2016-20175372
2017-20186962
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

You are taking into consideration 5v5/60 right?
 

Name Nameless

Don't go more than 10 seconds back on challenges
Apr 12, 2017
6,548
3,004
Hey, I also think game winning goals in shootouts should count towards that players season total.

How can you have a game winning goal but the player never really gets credited for it.

Because shoot-outs are crapfest, and they sure do get credited more than enough for it.
 

Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
54,151
18,550
Pittsburgh
Because shoot-outs are crapfest, and they sure do get credited more than enough for it.

But, the team gets 2 points just as a regular win. They only have a separate slot for OT/SO losses. The goal should count.

All they're are saving is drawn out OT games. Someone at some point would score that goal. If they want to keep having a clear winner.
 

LakeLivin

Armchair Quarterback
Mar 11, 2016
4,644
13,332
North Carolina
Yes Let's give Maroon 2 points on this play and McDavid 1.

:huh::laugh:



You are the one here who are claiming the general rule is the assists are easier. And make up examples, or at best, show some hasty generalization for it. And when someone try to explain to you the assist-guys may have done great work they never got anything for, because the men with the easy finishing-job wiffed, that is something you blow off as "one example".

Huh? Did you notice that the post I was responding to was one where someone posted a video of a great McDavid assist in order to mock the notion of valuing goals more than assists? Or read where I acknowledged that there are times where a passer "contributes" more to a goal than the actual scorer? Or read the article where a statistician actually did an analysis exploring the relative "scoring value" of goals vs. primary assists vs. secondary assists?
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
51,157
9,904
I disagree with the suggestion:

- Goal scorers would become prohibitively expensive
- Threading the needle is a skill I'd argue is as important as finishing a play
 

McFlash97

Registered User
Oct 10, 2017
7,469
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Huh? Did you notice that the post I was responding to was one where someone posted a video of a great McDavid assist in order to mock the notion of valuing goals more than assists? Or read where I acknowledged that there are times where a passer "contributes" more to a goal than the actual scorer? Or read the article where a statistician actually did an analysis exploring the relative "scoring value" of goals vs. primary assists vs. secondary assists?
Your out to lunch man. Just stop. It's pure idiocy to suggest goals are somehow more valuable then assists, especially when you watch generational players gift wrap goal after goal for thier linemates. Cheechoo would have finished ahead of Joe Thornton in 06 if Thornton played the full season by your analysis....lol

I assume outside of the Carolina Hurricanes you dont get to watch much hockey, one out of every 3 points by 97 is usually plays similar to this just slightly less spectacular....so it becomes the norm.
 
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LakeLivin

Armchair Quarterback
Mar 11, 2016
4,644
13,332
North Carolina
Your out to lunch man. Just stop. It's pure idiocy to suggest goals are somehow more valuable then assists, especially when you watch generational players gift wrap goal after goal for thier linemates. Cheechoo would have finished ahead of Joe Thornton in 06 if Thornton played the full season by your analysis....lol

I assume outside of the Carolina Hurricanes you dont get to watch much hockey, one out of every 3 points by 97 is usually plays similar to this just slightly less spectacular....so it becomes the norm.

If 1 out of 3 of McDavid's points are great assists, that means 2 out of 3 aren't. Last I checked, 2/3 > 1/3. So wouldn't that mean the scoring norm for McDavid is other than great assists? :sarcasm:
 

member 300185

Guest
No. 2 points for an assist and 1 point for a goal.

Booyah! Let that sink in.
 
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Hockey4Lyfe

Registered User
Feb 26, 2018
6,601
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Just leave it how it is. How it’s been for god knows how long. How this is affecting anyone is beyond reason. The best players are usually at the top of the point leaders. This also has nothing to do with the actual outcome of the game.
 

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