Player Discussion Troy Brouwer - our $4.5 million grinder

[Langdon Alger]

At 17.5% retained ($5,981,250 cap hit), the Flames would be on the hook for $24,750,000 in actual salary, while only saving $16,000,000 in actual salary. Meaning that the Flames would still be eating 8.75m for the Sens. There is no reason to do this deal if the Flames are eating a chunk of actual dollars without compensation, so the Sens would need to eat closer to 45% (the Flames would still be taking on $500k in actual salary) or the Sens would need to be sending over that Penguins 1st round pick in the deal

Only way I’d consider the deal with Pittsburgh’s first is if Calgary takes on Ryan at full price. Even then, not sure I’d do that. In part because Ottawa doesn’t have a 2nd or 3rd in this draft, and they’ve traded away too many picks lately.

Ryan is tough to move at this point unless Ottawa takes money back, retains salary, or both. I think Dorion will try his best to move Ryan this off season, but it won’t be an easy task.

 

[Lunatik]

Only way I’d consider the deal with Pittsburgh’s first is if Calgary takes on Ryan at full price. Even then, not sure I’d do that. In part because Ottawa doesn’t have a 2nd or 3rd in this draft, and they’ve traded away too many picks lately.

Ryan is tough to move at this point unless Ottawa takes money back, retains salary, or both. I think Dorion will try his best to move Ryan this off season, but it won’t be an easy task.

If you want to move Ryan at full price, you would be looking at giving up your first (assuming it is top 10). Ryan is owed $30,000,000 over the next 4 years and his $8 million in remaining signing bonuses makes him more expensive to buyout than your average player for the first half of the buyout penalty period, so that's not really an option if he continues to stink it up.

The bottom line is the NHL is not a charity, if you want to get rid of that abortion of a contract, either the actual dollars need to be close to even, or you have to pay the team to eat the salary and I would argue a late 1st to eat $8 million is a bargain.

 

[Langdon Alger]

If you want to move Ryan at full price, you would be looking at giving up your first (assuming it is top 10). Ryan is owed $30,000,000 over the next 4 years and his $8 million in remaining signing bonuses makes him more expensive to buyout than your average player for the first half of the buyout penalty period, so that's not really an option if he continues to stink it up.

The bottom line is the NHL is not a charity, if you want to get rid of that abortion of a contract, either the actual dollars need to be close to even, or you have to pay the team to eat the salary and I would argue a late 1st to eat $8 million is a bargain.

I’m well aware the nhl is not a charity, which is why I was willing to take Brouwer, a guy you guys clearly don’t want, and Stone who is your 5th defenceman making 3.5 million a year. It’s not like I’m offering Ryan for a pick and expecting anyone to be interested.

Like I said, I’d consider including the Pittsburgh first, ideally if there was no retention. Taking salary, retaining and including a first seems like a lot, so I’d rather not do all three, but I do appreciate that there won’t be much of a market for Ryan, so Ottawa might need to get creative.

At some point Ottawa needs to rid themselves of Ryan, but I’m not against him staying for one more year and trying to move him next summer. Maybe if he has a good year next year it will be easier to move him then as opposed to right now.

I think a fresh start would be good for Ryan, but there is no guarantee he turns it around if he moves on.

 

[Lunatik]

I’m well aware the nhl is not a charity, which is why I was willing to take Brouwer, a guy you guys clearly don’t want, and Stone who is your 5th defenceman making 3.5 million a year. It’s not like I’m offering Ryan for a pick and expecting anyone to be interested.

Like I said, I’d consider including the Pittsburgh first, ideally if there was no retention. Taking salary, retaining and including a first seems like a lot, so I’d rather not do all three, but I do appreciate that there won’t be much of a market for Ryan, so Ottawa might need to get creative.

At some point Ottawa needs to rid themselves of Ryan, but I’m not against him staying for one more year and trying to move him next summer. Maybe if he has a good year next year it will be easier to move him then as opposed to right now.

I think a fresh start would be good for Ryan, but there is no guarantee he turns it around if he moves on.

The thing is, Brouwer on the 4th line still almost produced as much as Ryan, but unlike Ryan, Brouwer can play on the 4th line and PK. Plus Brouwer for 2 years @ 4.5 is infinitely better than Ryan for 4 years @ 7.25 (while being paid 7.5). Stone was signed to be our #5 at 3.5 million, so it's not a case where he fell down the depth chart, he was given what he was worth to be insurance for our top 4.

No you didn't just ask for a pick, but you are asking a team to eat a significant part of Ryan's contract and to get teams to eat salary for you, it will cost you assets, it's just how it works; and it's not like we are talking 1-2 million here, we're talking $8 million (almost as much as Brouwer is owed). The retention you suggested would easily cost the Sens the Pens 1st, maybe more. Without retention, you are looking at significant assets (much more than a very late 1st) to shed that contract.

Your suggestion would literally have the Flames paying almost double for a worse contract than Brouwer and we'd get nothing for moving Stone. The Flames would be better off moving Stone for a 3rd or 4th and keeping Brouwer.

You say you know the NHL isn't a charity, but you want us to take an equally poor player, throw in our #5 defenseman and still eat $8 million in actual dollars.....

 

[JPeeper]

Would you guys trade Brouwer and Stone for Bobby Ryan?

No, Stone sucks and Brouwer blows ass, but Ryan is a shell of his former self and is signed for like 4 more years at $7.5mil. Even if they retained (Ottawa, retaining? LOL), just no. Brouwer and Stone will be gone in 2 years maximum.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Ryan at 50% retained I’d consider that trade.

Would somehow like to ensure he’s mentally and physically healthy first.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Ryan at 50% retained I’d consider that trade.

Would somehow like to ensure he’s mentally and physically healthy first.

See but then I think we need to add Brouwer. I think Ryan is the better player, he’s faster and a better scorer. But I’m scared to make that deal.

Ryan for Brouwer at 5.5 I’d strongly consider though.

 

[CamPopplestone]

Put me in the camp who would do Brouwer for Okposo 1 for 1.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I dunno I mean, if we can offload Brouwer, Stone and get back into the 1st round. I would take Ryan with little retention. It’s very risky, but he could also be the answer to our RW woes.

 

[Mobiandi]

Stone can be moved for picks and Brouwer will eventually be traded or bought out after this upcoming season.

Ryan puts up a respectable 0.5 PPG but has an albatross of a contract and is quite slow. Hard pass even at 5 mil

 

[Razzdazzle1]

These trades are dumb af.

We're better off buying out Brouwer and moving forward. We don't want Ryan, or Perry, or any other high paid 'has been' that's slowing down by the minute. We need speed and youth.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

These trades are dumb af.

We're better off buying out Brouwer and moving forward. We don't want Ryan, or Perry, or any other high paid 'has been' that's slowing down by the minute. We need speed and youth.

What’s wrong with using young guys that have shown promise and actually letting them play? That’s the way the game is. Hopefully the dinosaurs that run our team have realized that finally. But I have my doubts. I agree we don’t need old slow guys. Those guys are just wasted money.

 

[DFF]

What’s wrong with using young guys that have shown promise and actually letting them play? That’s the way the game is. Hopefully the dinosaurs that run our team have realized that finally. But I have my doubts. I agree we don’t need old slow guys. Those guys are just wasted money.

Like who? There is no young forward that can play in the system.

I am not counting Bennett and Jankowski cause they are already on the roster and the Flames need them to produce regardless.

 

[Mr Snrub]

Like who? There is no young forward that can play in the system.

I am not counting Bennett and Jankowski cause they are already on the roster and the Flames need them to produce regardless.

Andrew Mangiapane? Spencer Foo?

 

[Deen]

I wouldn't even buy him out. He feels the pressure and this year is the payoff.

 

[Lunatik]

I dunno I mean, if we can offload Brouwer, Stone and get back into the 1st round. I would take Ryan with little retention. It’s very risky, but he could also be the answer to our RW woes.

This is basically what I was saying, but without getting back into the first round, or significant retention, it's a bad idea. Over the last 2 years Ryan only has 11 more points than Brouwer and is completely useless when not productive.

 

[DFF]

Andrew Mangiapane? Spencer Foo?

Mangiapane is vastly overrated by Flames fans. I like Foo better. Between the two of them, one may eventually help but I wouldnt bet on it for this coming season. They need to get external help.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Mangiapane is vastly overrated by Flames fans. I like Foo better. Between the two of them, one may eventually help but I wouldnt bet on it for this coming season. They need to get external help.

You didn’t mention Dillon Dube. Who is a really good player with speed.

We need to let young guys play and get experience. Dube, Mangiapane, and Foo will help thus team. But they need to get playing time for that to happen.

Putting all our chips in on players who are rapidly on the decline is nuts. We need effective youth to come in or we just won’t be an elite team.

I’d rather go down taking a chance on young guys with skill, rather than go for the same philosophy this management has always had (old + slow = good)

 

[Ace Rimmer]

See but then I think we need to add Brouwer. I think Ryan is the better player, he’s faster and a better scorer. But I’m scared to make that deal.

Ryan for Brouwer at 5.5 I’d strongly consider though.

Well yeah, the trade I was referencing was Brouwer & Stone for Ryan @ 50%.

I'm not even sure if the cap works in that scenario to be honest. (For Ottawa)

 

[Fig]

I would not be surprised if Brouwer suddenly does better under a new coach. We shall see what transpires.

 

[Rangediddy]

You guys are just talking about putting out a fire by throwing gasoline on it.

These aren't the fixes this team needs to make. The only time and brainpower Treliving should spend on Brouwer is figuring out how to remove him from this team without taking back an equally bad player or contract. Brouwer for Ryan is a sideways move that may or may not make this team better. We need moves that definitely make this team better (like benching/waiving/buying out Brouwer).

If there's no deal to be made, then either make the decision to bench, waive or buy him out and move on. The phone calls should be spent on making moves that improve the team.

 

[Lunatik]

You guys are just talking about putting out a fire by throwing gasoline on it.

These aren't the fixes this team needs to make. The only time and brainpower Treliving should spend on Brouwer is figuring out how to remove him from this team without taking back an equally bad player or contract. Brouwer for Ryan is a sideways move that may or may not make this team better. We need moves that definitely make this team better (like benching/waiving/buying out Brouwer).

If there's no deal to be made, then either make the decision to bench, waive or buy him out and move on. The phone calls should be spent on making moves that improve the team.

You really think the 4th line winger and PKer being off the team is going to magically make this team better by fixing our real problem of the middle six needing to score more goals? Some of you are so f***ing delusional when it comes to Brouwer.

 

[Mr Snrub]

I would not be surprised if Brouwer suddenly does better under a new coach. We shall see what transpires.

Then again, sounds like what Peters wants is pretty much what Gulutzan wanted but with faster play and more puck movement, neither of which are Brouwer's forte. I think his best case scenario is to be converted into a role player and a PK specialist, not someone put in a position to carry any sort of scoring burden for the team.

 

[Rangediddy]

You really think the 4th line winger and PKer being off the team is going to magically make this team better by fixing our real problem of the middle six needing to score more goals? Some of you are so ****ing delusional when it comes to Brouwer.

Reading comprehension not a strong suit for you hey? That is exactly my point. Treliving's time and energy shouldn't be spent trying to replace Brouwer with an equally bad boat anchor. It should be spent making the top end of the roster better. If something comes along where we can ditch Brouwer and his contract without replacing it with with another bad one, then pull the trigger, but it's not likely so don't spend the time on it.

 

[Lunatik]

Reading comprehension not a strong suit for you hey? That is exactly my point. Treliving's time and energy shouldn't be spent trying to replace Brouwer with an equally bad boat anchor. It should be spent making the top end of the roster better. If something comes along where we can ditch Brouwer and his contract without replacing it with with another bad one, then pull the trigger, but it's not likely so don't spend the time on it.

Sorry, I read the first part and just chalked it up to people throwing Brouwer under the bus. That's my bad.