Value of: Trouba for T. Johnson +

[robertocarlos]

Just wait 2 years and you will get Trouba for nothing.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Trouba would be a good fit in Tampa if he really does want out of Winnipeg, Johnson could be the center the jets are looking for and he would add speed between Ehlers and Laine. Jets fans probably won’t like the general idea (I know how canadian fans are on here) but I think a deal of this sort makes sense. Something like Trouba for Johnson+Raddysh+2nd, if jets really think Trouba is gone in fa. In normal circumstances this is an underpay for Trouba but if the jets are worried about losing him for nothing it makes sense. Thoughts?

Just NO.

 

[Hunter368]

Not wanting him is one thing, but a top six center on a very reasonably priced longterm deal is more than enough to constitute a realistic return for a very good defenseman with only two years before he hits UFA status. Again, I’m not saying the Jets should trade Trouba for Johnson - only that the value is fair when you consider all the factors.

You will notice I never insulted him or called him bad......just zero interest in him. He would be so far down my list that just call it zero interest.

 

[Hunter368]

Just NO.

When the best they offer as the main piece is Johnson.....you know it’s a pointless thread/discussion. Zero interest in Johnson......zip.....zero.

 

[broc]

Ppl thinking they’re gonna fleece Chevy can look at the track record.

Ppl were saying for a long time the same stuff about Evander Kane- “oh, he doesn’t wanna stay long term, he’s unhappy, you guys will have to sell him for quarters on the dollar”. He was a winger with a season ending injury and Chevy got a terrific return for him.

Trouba is one of the best under 24 year old or under Defencman in the league. No one is going to get him at a discount, just like no one got Kane at one either.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Ppl thinking they’re gonna fleece Chevy can look at the track record.

Ppl were saying for a long time the same stuff about Evander Kane- “oh, he doesn’t wanna stay long term, he’s unhappy, you guys will have to sell him for quarters on the dollar”. He was a winger with a season ending injury and Chevy got a terrific return for him.

Trouba is one of the best under 24 year old or under Defencman in the league. No one is going to get him at a discount, just like no one got Kane at one either.

Well it’s better for peg than him going to arb again, getting another 1 year deal, then boom ufa

 

[Hunter368]

Well it’s better for peg than him going to arb again, getting another 1 year deal, then boom ufa

Is it though?

Look at some of these offers in this thread and others.....some offers I wouldn’t trade one year of Myers for never mind two years of Trouba. Others fans told us the same thing two years ago, take our ten cents on the dollar and by happy about it....thank goodness Chevy is way smarter then that. This last season we broke multi franchise records and even exceeded a couple Leaf original six team records that have been around for 100 years. We made to final four teams in the nhl and beat the best team in the nhl in a seven game series.

As I’ve stated in most of my posts, not insulting Johnson.......but him as a main piece is poor. Certainly not good enough to pry Trouba out of the Peg reducing our chances at potentially two more cup runs.

My personal choice would be keep him this season, one more run and try to sign him long term. Failing signing him by next summer then take offers, if they aren’t good enough keep him for one more run and if your not doing good enough trade him at the TDL......some of these offers honestly look like TDL offers for 20 games of his service. Funny each time his contract has been up insiders report huge interest from others teams yet on hfb we get rental type of offers and low ball offers. Weird how that works, in these fictional forum offers.

Sitting back waiting for the season to start, good luck to the Bolts this year.

 

[Grimm]

Am I the only one who thinks Trouba is kind of overrated? He's not a #1 IMO. He's eclipsed 30 points once and I hate plus/minus but was a whopping +4 and +9 on a team who was 6th and 2nd in scoring respectively.

He's young, yes. He has value in his potential, I get it. But right now I just don't see this monster coveted d-man. I could care less if Detroit gets him eventually.

 

[JoVel]

Apparently he's worth much more, page one if we want Foote we have to take Girardi as well.....but we do get a 4th Rd winger and a 2nd Rd pick for our troubles. Haha

Girardi can be useful, he wouldn't be just cap space. And I guess you'd also call Palat just a 7th round winger... If that draft happened again, Joseph would go waaay before the 4th round.

 

[JoVel]

Personally wouldn't really be interested in Trouba. I'd much rather take that 8 mil he's asking for and try to get Karlsson as a UFA if he hasn't signed anywhere before then. I would not give Trouba more money than Hedman...

 

[AndreRoy]

Personally wouldn't really be interested in Trouba. I'd much rather take that 8 mil he's asking for and try to get Karlsson as a UFA if he hasn't signed anywhere before then. I would not give Trouba more money than Hedman...

We don’t have that $8M to begin with. We’re already looking at Stralman walking and Miller being traded just to afford everybody else we already have.

 

[Guffman]

Am I the only one who thinks Trouba is kind of overrated? He's not a #1 IMO. He's eclipsed 30 points once and I hate plus/minus but was a whopping +4 and +9 on a team who was 6th and 2nd in scoring respectively.

He's young, yes. He has value in his potential, I get it. But right now I just don't see this monster coveted d-man. I could care less if Detroit gets him eventually.

He’s overrated when it comes to contract time and he asks too much. However, when it’s about making these trades on HF Forums, he’s this really good, young RHD that deserves a lot of premium assets in return.

 

[AndreRoy]

Is it though?

Look at some of these offers in this thread and others.....some offers I wouldn’t trade one year of Myers for never mind two years of Trouba. Others fans told us the same thing two years ago, take our ten cents on the dollar and by happy about it....thank goodness Chevy is way smarter then that. This last season we broke multi franchise records and even exceeded a couple Leaf original six team records that have been around for 100 years. We made to final four teams in the nhl and beat the best team in the nhl in a seven game series.

As I’ve stated in most of my posts, not insulting Johnson.......but him as a main piece is poor. Certainly not good enough to pry Trouba out of the Peg reducing our chances at potentially two more cup runs.

My personal choice would be keep him this season, one more run and try to sign him long term. Failing signing him by next summer then take offers, if they aren’t good enough keep him for one more run and if your not doing good enough trade him at the TDL......some of these offers honestly look like TDL offers for 20 games of his service. Funny each time his contract has been up insiders report huge interest from others teams yet on hfb we get rental type of offers and low ball offers. Weird how that works, in these fictional forum offers.

Sitting back waiting for the season to start, good luck to the Bolts this year.

I don’t think you’re insulting Johnson, but I do think you’re underestimating the value of a good top six center on a very reasonably priced longterm deal relative to that of a top pairing defenseman with only two years of team control remaining. Trading Trouba for Johnson may not make sense for the Jets given their strengths and needs but in terms of value it’s more than fair. It’s not a lowball offer; it’s just not an offer that fits your needs.

 

[Hunter368]

Girardi can be useful, he wouldn't be just cap space. And I guess you'd also call Palat just a 7th round winger... If that draft happened again, Joseph would go waaay before the 4th round.

Ok cool.....so would you like an offer of an old cap dump and a long shot prospect for one of your best players? Not to mention Joseph is worthless to us, we have wingers for days.

Big Buff was a 8th round draft pick, most teams have 1-2 long shots.....so your point about Palat is meaningless.

 

[JoVel]

Ok cool.....so would you like an offer of an old cap dump and a long shot prospect for one of your best players? Not to mention Joseph is worthless to us, we have wingers for days.

Big Buff was a 8th round draft pick, most teams have 1-2 long shots.....so your point about Palat is meaningless.

I never commented whether the trade was fair or not, just that how you described some of those players was pretty dumb. Joseph isn't really a long shot anymore at this point, he did have 53 points in the AHL last season. Also we've had quite a few more "long shots" than one or two. Kucherov, 2nd round. Point, 3rd round. Palat, 7th round. Johnson, Marchessault and Gourde, undrafted.

 

[Hunter368]

I never commented whether the trade was fair or not, just that how you described some of those players was pretty dumb. Joseph isn't really a long shot anymore at this point, he did have 53 points in the AHL last season. Also we've had quite a few more "long shots" than one or two. Kucherov, 2nd round. Point, 3rd round. Palat, 7th round. Johnson, Marchessault and Gourde, undrafted.

Good luck with him I hope he works out, we all have multi players like him......We’re here talking about a fictional trade offer.....in that context he wouldnt even cover as payment for forcing us to take your cap dump.

 

[Hunter368]

I don’t think you’re insulting Johnson, but I do think you’re underestimating the value of a good top six center on a very reasonably priced longterm deal relative to that of a top pairing defenseman with only two years of team control remaining. Trading Trouba for Johnson may not make sense for the Jets given their strengths and needs but in terms of value it’s more than fair. It’s not a lowball offer; it’s just not an offer that fits your needs.

See I think you and I don’t agree on two, maybe three things regarding the whole OP offer.

You call Johnson a “good top six C”, I call him a passable top six C (especially in the central) that would likely struggle in a more physical central division. I don’t even think he could beat out Little for 2C, taking all factors into consideration (two way play, FO, physical play). Then he becomes a highly paid 3C on our team b/c God knows we don’t need more wingers.

You call his contract very reasonable, I call it questionable (both cap hit and more so term). Especially if he’s our 3C.

I don’t see any fit here, we’re fundamentally too far apart on values in each other’s players. Good luck this year in the east. Cheers!

 

[DarthProbert]

Value doesn't matter, if either is moved it's for cap relief. Moving them for each other doesn't achieve that.

 

[Flyerfan52]

Well it’s better for peg than him going to arb again, getting another 1 year deal, then boom ufa

If Trouba & Overhart file for arbitration again the Jets would get to pick if the term would be 1 year or 2.
The Jets would be happy to go the 2 for the extra year which includes the 1st year that could have been Trouba as UFA.
So far Overhart has tried to play hardball with Chevy twice. The 1st resulted in a holdout that ended with a bridge deal @ about 40% less than the offer Wpg. tendered. The second was this arbitration where he was awarded $1 million under what the Jets offered away from the arbitrator. So a 3rd try could result in an extra year of team control & loss of 1 year as UFA.
Hopefully Trouba notices (or someone close to him points it out) that listening to this particular agent costs him money way above the agent's % while gaining him a reputation as a malcontent.

Johnson is a good player & if put on the trading block Stevie Y would recieve many good offers. He just doesn't fill a need on the Jets. Especially not if it costs them 1/2 their top pairing defensive D. I like all the prospects that have been mentioned as adds but Johnson as the centerpiece just doesn't fit.
Looking @ the TB roster there aren't any other players they could/should give up as the main piece. The Jets are in a win now mode too so even a bunch of those excellent prospects along with a cap dump to make $s work wouldn't interest them.
Any trade between these teams would have to benifit both & the realistic moveable parts to do that just aren't there.

 

[HoseEmDown]

See I think you and I don’t agree on two, maybe three things regarding the whole OP offer.

You call Johnson a “good top six C”, I call him a passable top six C (especially in the central) that would likely struggle in a more physical central division. I don’t even think he could beat out Little for 2C, taking all factors into consideration (two way play, FO, physical play). Then he becomes a highly paid 3C on our team b/c God knows we don’t need more wingers.

You call his contract very reasonable, I call it questionable (both cap hit and more so term). Especially if he’s our 3C.

I don’t see any fit here, we’re fundamentally too far apart on values in each other’s players. Good luck this year in the east. Cheers!

Tyler Johnson for his career averages 23g and 55p a season, Matt Duchene 25g 60p. Duchene was a 1C in the central for a few years, he's just a few inches taller. If he can be a top 6 center than so can Johnson. Johnson and Little have very similar production the past 5 seasons, Johnson put up a few more points with Little the higher ppg. So if Little isn't good enough for you to be a 2C than Johnson won't either and that's fine but Johnson is a 2C or 2RW on almost every team in the league. He's also signed for the same length as Little for about 250k less while being 3 years younger. So if you don't like Johnson you don't really like Little either.

 

[Hunter368]

Tyler Johnson for his career averages 23g and 55p a season, Matt Duchene 25g 60p. Duchene was a 1C in the central for a few years, he's just a few inches taller. If he can be a top 6 center than so can Johnson. Johnson and Little have very similar production the past 5 seasons, Johnson put up a few more points with Little the higher ppg. So if Little isn't good enough for you to be a 2C than Johnson won't either and that's fine but Johnson is a 2C or 2RW on almost every team in the league. He's also signed for the same length as Little for about 250k less while being 3 years younger. So if you don't like Johnson you don't really like Little either.

Little & Duchene, neither big centres themselves are both 3 & 4 inches taller and a min of 10-15 lbs heavier.....big difference. Oh I'm well aware of Littles contract and trust me I'm not enthusiastic about it either......which is all the more reason not to take on another questionable one like Johnson. Little is comparable in offence and better at everything else. Sorry no interest whatsoever in Johnson.....zero. Johnson would be our 3C or 3RW. He isn't beating out Mark or Little at C, and he has no hope of beating out Wheeler or Laine at RW. Pass, if the best you can offer is Johnson we're not good trade partners at least at this time......maybe resurrect the conversation next summer. Cheers!

 

[Hunter368]

If Trouba & Overhart file for arbitration again the Jets would get to pick if the term would be 1 year or 2.
The Jets would be happy to go the 2 for the extra year which includes the 1st year that could have been Trouba as UFA.
So far Overhart has tried to play hardball with Chevy twice. The 1st resulted in a holdout that ended with a bridge deal @ about 40% less than the offer Wpg. tendered. The second was this arbitration where he was awarded $1 million under what the Jets offered away from the arbitrator. So a 3rd try could result in an extra year of team control & loss of 1 year as UFA.
Hopefully Trouba notices (or someone close to him points it out) that listening to this particular agent costs him money way above the agent's % while gaining him a reputation as a malcontent.

Johnson is a good player & if put on the trading block Stevie Y would recieve many good offers. He just doesn't fill a need on the Jets. Especially not if it costs them 1/2 their top pairing defensive D. I like all the prospects that have been mentioned as adds but Johnson as the centerpiece just doesn't fit.
Looking @ the TB roster there aren't any other players they could/should give up as the main piece. The Jets are in a win now mode too so even a bunch of those excellent prospects along with a cap dump to make $s work wouldn't interest them.
Any trade between these teams would have to benifit both & the realistic moveable parts to do that just aren't there.

Agreed

If Bolts offered JT Miller & Foote for Trouba+ I would be all ears.........but want no part of Johnson. Steve Y would be given access to Trouba beforehand to discuss desire to extend and rough numbers......happens all the time historically at July 1st before the grace period given now before FA. Suddenly all the signings announced within 15 mins of start time......people really think multi year deals worth millions worked out in 15 mins? No of course not......they were verbally agreed to before officially allowed to.

 

[Mikeaveli]

If Jets fans want Miller instead that is 100% okay with me lol. I would much rather trade him instead of Johnson.

 

[AndreRoy]

If Jets fans want Miller instead that is 100% okay with me lol. I would much rather trade him instead of Johnson.

I’d trade Miller but there’s no way we trade Foote unless Trouba is signed long term before the deal goes down (which again never happens in the real world.) And unless they believe Miller can be a center going forward I don’t see why the Jets would trade Trouba for him alone given their depth on the wing. We aren’t dealing with Bergevin here.

Plus that still doesn’t address how we would afford Trouba’s next contract considering Miller’s cap hit already has to go after next season to keep the guys we currently have. So realistically to extend Trouba we’d need to convince Killorn to waive for a trade AND let Gourde walk. Even if we only wanted Trouba as a two year rental we’d have to do one of those things OR somehow move Callahan which would cost us an additional asset or two - not to mention that the price we’d be willing to pay for Trouba as a rental doesn’t make sense for the Jets as we’ve already discussed. We could have had the futures to put together a nice package for him but we blew those on McDonagh (whose extension also took up a large chunk of the cap space that could have been used to extend Trouba) and the guys we have left we need to fill in the depth behind our core once they’re resigned.

In short there’s just not a way to work this deal that makes sense for both sides; we’re better off waiting for another season and hoping the Jets are out of contention by the deadline so we can pick up Trouba at the rental price at that time.

 

[Hunter368]

If Jets fans want Miller instead that is 100% okay with me lol. I would much rather trade him instead of Johnson.

Ok good, yes much perfer JT Miller.

JT Miller & Foote for Trouba, access to talk contract before trade albeit the contract cannot be announced until after Jan 1st & winger prospect not named Roslovic or Vesalainen or 3rd pick.