Trottier vs. Crosby

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Jan 22, 2007
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Better career? Crosby

More complete player? Trottier

More important for the game? Crosby

More accolades? Crosby

Who would I build my team around if both were available in an all-time re-draft? Crosby

Who would I take in a Game 7 if my life depended on it and both players were at their best? Toss up, but I lean Trottier
 

daver

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Better career? Who would I take in a Game 7 if my life depended on it and both players were at their best? Toss up, but I lean Trottier

Who would you take to lessen the chances of your team having to go to Game 7 to begin with?
 

The Panther

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I have no dog in this (thread-bumped) fight, and I think at this point Crosby clearly wins in overall career value and probably in peak/prime as well, but I just wanted to throw in that I sometimes feel Bryan Trottier's offensive peak -- esp. in 1978-79 -- gets overlooked.

We all know he was a great two-way player, playmaker, etc. But how about 1978-79, when Trottier scored 134 points in 76 games (that's 145 points per 82 games), went +76, and beat peak Lafleur and Dionne in scoring? It's a pretty heady offensive level.
 

daver

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I have no dog in this (thread-bumped) fight, and I think at this point Crosby clearly wins in overall career value and probably in peak/prime as well, but I just wanted to throw in that I sometimes feel Bryan Trottier's offensive peak -- esp. in 1978-79 -- gets overlooked.

We all know he was a great two-way player, playmaker, etc. But how about 1978-79, when Trottier scored 134 points in 76 games (that's 145 points per 82 games), went +76, and beat peak Lafleur and Dionne in scoring? It's a pretty heady offensive level.

Helps to have a player putting up the biggest goal total over a decade on your line. Bossy was in on almost 50% of Trottier's points.

Kind of like the Stamkos/St. Louis dymamic.
 
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Dennis Bonvie

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I have no dog in this (thread-bumped) fight, and I think at this point Crosby clearly wins in overall career value and probably in peak/prime as well, but I just wanted to throw in that I sometimes feel Bryan Trottier's offensive peak -- esp. in 1978-79 -- gets overlooked.

We all know he was a great two-way player, playmaker, etc. But how about 1978-79, when Trottier scored 134 points in 76 games (that's 145 points per 82 games), went +76, and beat peak Lafleur and Dionne in scoring? It's a pretty heady offensive level.

An incredible season, for sure.

Should be noted that 2nd and 3rd in plus/minus that season were Potvin & Bossy.
 
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tarheelhockey

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I have no dog in this (thread-bumped) fight, and I think at this point Crosby clearly wins in overall career value and probably in peak/prime as well, but I just wanted to throw in that I sometimes feel Bryan Trottier's offensive peak -- esp. in 1978-79 -- gets overlooked.

We all know he was a great two-way player, playmaker, etc. But how about 1978-79, when Trottier scored 134 points in 76 games (that's 145 points per 82 games), went +76, and beat peak Lafleur and Dionne in scoring? It's a pretty heady offensive level.

IMO the trio of Trottier, Potvin, Bossy all tend to be viewed through the lens of 1980-84 because the playoff heroics are what capture the popular imagination. In a weird backhanded way, that takes attention off their careers before 1980 which in all three cases includes their peak or near-peak seasons.

That trio won 3 Calder Trophies, a goals title, two assists titles, a points title, three Norrises, six 1ASs, three 2ASs, a Hart Trophy, and two other seasons as Hart finalists before 1980. Those achievements alone would put them among the great franchise-defining trios, even if they hadn't followed it up with a 4-Cup dynasty and a whole bunch of other awards.

I'm sure most folks who spend a lot of time on the History board are aware of this, but generally it seems to be completely overlooked.
 
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JackSlater

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IMO the trio of Trottier, Potvin, Bossy all tend to be viewed through the lens of 1980-84 because the playoff heroics are what capture the popular imagination. In a weird backhanded way, that takes attention off their careers before 1980 which in all three cases includes their peak or near-peak seasons.

That trio won 3 Calder Trophies, a goals title, two assists titles, a points title, three Norrises, six 1ASs, three 2ASs, a Hart Trophy, and two other seasons as Hart finalists before 1980. Those achievements alone would put them among the great franchise-defining trios, even if they hadn't followed it up with a 4-Cup dynasty and a whole bunch of other awards.

I'm sure most folks who spend a lot of time on the History board are aware of this, but generally it seems to be completely overlooked.

I've referred to Trottier and Potvin as "Yzermans" to friends over the years because of what you're describing. People mainly remember their later Stanley Cup winning period rather than their actual peaks.
 

jigglysquishy

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I always felt bad for Billy Smith in these discussions. The fourth most important player on that dynasty, his Conn Smythe and Vezina tend to get downplayed by only talking about the first three.

Same with Clarke Gillies and Butch Goring. Those teams were absolutely stacked.
 

tarheelhockey

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I always felt bad for Billy Smith in these discussions. The fourth most important player on that dynasty, his Conn Smythe and Vezina tend to get downplayed by only talking about the first three.

Same with Clarke Gillies and Butch Goring. Those teams were absolutely stacked.

FWIW, the reason I didn't mention Smith is that his pre-1980 wasn't anything that would stand out all-time in its own right.

Gillies, absolutely. Consecutive 1ASs in 1978 and 1979. Four consecutive 30-goal seasons in 1976-79.

Goring won the 1978 Lady Byng and Masterton awards with a 37-goal season. He had a run starting in 1976 where he scored 73, 85, 87, 79 points with almost zero PIM. Of course that was in LA, but still.
 

The Macho King

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I always felt bad for Billy Smith in these discussions. The fourth most important player on that dynasty, his Conn Smythe and Vezina tend to get downplayed by only talking about the first three.

Same with Clarke Gillies and Butch Goring. Those teams were absolutely stacked.
TBF the Vezina wasn't voted on back then.
 

wetcoast

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I've referred to Trottier and Potvin as "Yzermans" to friends over the years because of what you're describing. People mainly remember their later Stanley Cup winning period rather than their actual peaks.

It's funny as I have often wondered how Potvin would be treated if his regular season peak lined up exactly with his playoff peak as that scenario seems to have really helped the legacy of Lafleur for some reason.
 
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JackSlater

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It's funny as I have often wondered how Potvin would be treated if his regular season peak lined up exactly with his playoff peak as that scenario seems to have really helped the legacy of Lafleur for some reason.

It might have helped his legacy as he would be a bit removed from Orr and the early 80s was somewhat shallow defensively, at least compared to the eras right before and after. It's the little things though, like if Potvin had gotten the Norris and Smythe that he very likely deserved in 1981 he may be treated better by people who are looking to count up trophies and do little else. Then again as a wise man once said, you can't argue with the little things, it's the little things that make up life.
 
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The Panther

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Potvin just got shafted all around when it comes to hardware
There's a difference between being "shafted" and being unlucky. Which do you think applies to Potvin?

I think there's a general consensus that Jaromir Jagr is one of the most unlucky forwards ever in terms of his MVP status in the NHL -- he ended up with one Hart Trophy, despite being maybe a top-5 productive forward of all time and winning 5 scoring titles. But I can't really say he was "shafted" (except in 2006). He was just unlucky.
 

Regal

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There's a difference between being "shafted" and being unlucky. Which do you think applies to Potvin?

I think there's a general consensus that Jaromir Jagr is one of the most unlucky forwards ever in terms of his MVP status in the NHL -- he ended up with one Hart Trophy, despite being maybe a top-5 productive forward of all time and winning 5 scoring titles. But I can't really say he was "shafted" (except in 2006). He was just unlucky.

He probably got shafted on that Randy Carlyle Norris
 
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wetcoast

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He probably got shafted on that Randy Carlyle Norris

Add in unlucky the year before to going down with an injury and almost certainly losing another Norris.

Those 2 events would have made a 4 year sweep of the Norris for Potvin and a 7 year run of being a Norris finalist.

Also Goring winning the Conn Smythe in 81 is kind of mind boggling but Bossy had a great case as well as Trottier.
 

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