Trevor Timmins Discussion (Part V)

[Mike Mike Caron]

The only good thing about Galchenyuk is that he got us Domi.

 

[Forsead]

I dont think he would be on anyones top 5 if we started a redraft thread.

Yeah, I pretty much anybody would take :

Forsberg
Hertl
Rielly
Teravainen
Gotisbehere/Trouba/Lindholm/Dumba

Before Galchenyuk, but that's because they all had a good season in comparison.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Galchenyuk is 2nd for total points in his draft and is top 5 minimum in most re-drafts.

It was a weak draft all around.

Galchenyuk is probably barely still in the top 15 in a redraft at this point, let alone the top 5. In no particular order Forsberg, Trouba, Parayko, Rielly, Lindholm, Teravainen, Slavin, and Hertl are clearly ahead, and you could make arguments for Gostisbehere and Dumba, and even Lindell for that matter. If you include goalies Vasilevskiy, Hellebuyck, Murray, and Andersen all easily go before him too.

 

[Garbageyuk]

The only reason Galchenyuk was ranked 5th was because of his leg injury.

Go look at the re-drafts.

Go look at the draft itself, there was almost nothing passed the first round, nothing to 'wiff' at.

Timmins has had some bad drafts, but faulting him for 2012 is just ridiculous. Most here were extatic about the pick.

Back then we had Subban and Markov. Trouba and Dumba were not seen as sure picks, no more than Galcheyuk.

I had Chucky, Forsberg and TT as my top 3 for our pick.

Come on man, that is just false. At least try to be objective.

Tierney
Severson
Khaira
Pelech
Vesey
Lindell
Gostisbehere
Parayko
M. Murray
F. Andersen
Gustafsson
J. Anderson
Athanasiou
Slavin
Hellebuyck
Hutton
Kerfoot
C. Miller
C. Brown

All picked outside the first round. There was talent available, and other teams found it. Timmins did not.

Also, there was a lot of hype around Dumba, Reilly, and even Trouba in the year leading up to the draft, many had the first two rated higher than AG. It wasn't like they were 'surprises' that nobody expected to be good. And yes, Galchenyuk was rated lower due to the knee injury, and rightly so because he ended up being slow as molasses, probably due to that injury. The concerns were justified.

The AG pick was Timmins yet again trying to go against the grain to reach for the 'gem'. He has done this time and again, and with 1 or 2 exceptions in 17 drafts, it doesn't work (for him).

 

[Andrei79]

Galchenyuk is probably barely still in the top 15 in a redraft at this point, let alone the top 5. In no particular order Forsberg, Trouba, Parayko, Rielly, Lindholm, Teravainen, Slavin, and Hertl are clearly ahead, and you could make arguments for Gostisbehere and Dumba, and even Lindell for that matter. If you include goalies Vasilevskiy, Hellebuyck, Murray, and Andersen all easily go before him too.

Itll also be interesting to see what happens with Gusev.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Yeah, I pretty much anybody would take :

Forsberg
Hertl
Rielly
Teravainen
Gotisbehere/Trouba/Lindholm/Dumba

Before Galchenyuk, but that's because they all had a good season in comparison.

Add Parayko, Tom Wilson, Josh Anderson. Gustaffson, Slavin, Murray......

With out looking too hard he would be between 15 and 20 if it was held again today. His totals don't matter, especially compared to dmen. His current value is not very high, even Ryan Murray would be more coveted today despite the tough start to his career.

 

[McGees]

Not going to lie... Trevor Timmins has been amazing in the first round recently.

2016 - Sergachev (9th)
2017 - Poehling (25th)
2018 - Kotkaniemi (3rd)
2019 - Caufield (15th)

I like Juulsen too, I think when healthy, he will be a solid #3-4 which is very good for a late 20s pick.

 

[sharks9]

Well bud, he happens to bat worse than most of the league except for his one good year. The truth is only an accusation to frauds and people who believe them.

According to what measure?

 

[McGees]

Come on man, that is just false. At least try to be objective.

Tierney
Severson
Khaira
Pelech
Vesey
Lindell
Gostisbehere
Parayko
M. Murray
F. Andersen
Gustafsson
J. Anderson
Athanasiou
Slavin
Hellebuyck
Hutton
Kerfoot
C. Miller
C. Brown

All picked outside the first round. There was talent available, and other teams found it. Timmins did not.

Also, there was a lot of hype around Dumba, Reilly, and even Trouba in the year leading up to the draft, many had the first two rated higher than AG. It wasn't like they were 'surprises' that nobody expected to be good. And yes, Galchenyuk was rated lower due to the knee injury, and rightly so because he ended up being slow as molasses, probably due to that injury. The concerns were justified.

The AG pick was Timmins yet again trying to go against the grain to reach for the 'gem'. He has done this time and again, and with 1 or 2 exceptions in 17 drafts, it doesn't work (for him).

You think teams are reading The Hockey Writers like you and trying to 'go against the grain' for their picks? C'mon now. They have their own lists and they aren't all supposed to look the exact same and they are projecting, not just ranking players. It isn't a science.
I can see you are in pain about the Galchenyuk pick but remember that the Habs DESPERATELY needed a centre at that time and they were really between him and Forsberg. I think with less family influence and Mtl night life, Galch would have lived up to his potential. Still not a bad pick.

 

[Garbageyuk]

According to what measure?

According to the draft history since he took over.

 

[Garbageyuk]

You think teams are reading The Hockey Writers like you and trying to 'go against the grain' for their picks? C'mon now. They have their own lists and they aren't all supposed to look the exact same and they are projecting, not just ranking players. It isn't a science.
I can see you are in pain about the Galchenyuk pick but remember that the Habs DESPERATELY needed a centre at that time and they were really between him and Forsberg. I think with less family influence and Mtl night life, Galch would have lived up to his potential. Still not a bad pick.

There is a clear pattern to what Timmins does. He likes to reach. And he is almost never successful at it. The reason why he does it is irrelevant.

Regarding Galchenyuk, family influence and nightlife have nothing to due with him being as dumb as a bag of rocks, buttery soft, poor defensively, slow, and lazy. There is a substantial argument for him being a bad pick.

 

[sharks9]

According to the draft history since he took over.

So just your subjective opinion? Nothing real to prove he’s the worst in the league? Got it.

 

[Andrei79]

In his presser, Timmins basically admitted he drafted for need, so he did actually specifically draft LH defensemen after the 1st.

For Struble, I can understand the pick with the skills he has.

But, how many good drafting teams do this ? Anyone here agree with it ?

 

[WeThreeKings]

In his presser, Timmins basically admitted he drafted for need, so he did actually specifically draft LH defensemen after the 1st.

For Struble, I can understand the pick with the skills he has.

But, how many good drafting teams do this ? Anyone here agree with it ?

No, I can't ever agree with it.

If you have a potential top 6 W on the board and you take an AHL D.. how does that help?

 

[Habnot]

HFboards - evaluate player based on what he has done up to date and reading a bunch of pseudo-draft gurus and very limited viewing

Timmins & Management - evaluate/see/meet players for 2-3 years and project 4-5 years later using data supported by scientific and psychological profiling.

As Charley Brown would say - good grief

 

[Andrei79]

HFboards - evaluate player based on what he has done up to date and reading a bunch of pseudo-draft gurus and very limited viewing

Timmins & Management - evaluate/see/meet players for 2-3 years and project 4-5 years later using data supported by scientific and psychological profiling.

As Charley Brown would say - good grief

Timmins and management: an almost decade long drought.

Prospectsfanatic: outperforming them through a draft software.

Hey, let's apply this to anything: don't ever criticize any management move. They know better. Like Chiarelli for example.

I just heard Timmins refer to Struble as an "alpha male" - taken from how Churla describes him. Thats some precious scouting gem there.

 

[Habnot]

Timmins and management: an almost decade long drought.

Prospectsfanatic: outperforming them through a draft software.

Hey, let's apply this to anything: don't ever criticize any management move. They know better. Like Chiarelli for example.

I just heard Timmins refer to Struble as an "alpha male" - taken from how Churla describes him. Thats some precious scouting gem there.

I am not protecting Timmins - just pointing out how absurd it is to judge a pick 2 days after. You need at least a couple of years to let the dust settle.

 

[1909]

I am not protecting Timmins - just pointing out how absurd it is to judge a pick 2 days after. You need at least a couple of years to let the dust settle.

We had 16 years to judge his work..... and his thinking.

His batting average is low.

 

[JianYang]

There is a clear pattern to what Timmins does. He likes to reach. And he is almost never successful at it. The reason why he does it is irrelevant.

Regarding Galchenyuk, family influence and nightlife have nothing to due with him being as dumb as a bag of rocks, buttery soft, poor defensively, slow, and lazy. There is a substantial argument for him being a bad pick.

I'm not sure if you consider galchenyuk a reach, but I think he was widely speculated to go 3rd overall to the habs. The "experts" generally called it, and the fans wanted it.

I think the main issue here is that the organization seems to draft for need. I don't mind if they pick a player who fills an organizational need if they feel the differences between the BPA, and the need player are marginal, but when they strictly focus on need, thats when you can expose yourself to dumb reaches.

Reaches are not necessarily a bad thing, but I don't accept reaches based out of prioritizing organizational need over BPA.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

There is a clear pattern to what Timmins does. He likes to reach. And he is almost never successful at it. The reason why he does it is irrelevant.

There's most definitely a pattern.

Great success until we hired two moron coaches and then our record dropped off the earth. Now all of a sudden we've got a great prospect pool again.

If you want to develop players, don't hire bad coaches.

 

[scrubadam]

you can't blame 08-15 on coaching.

We are talking 8 drafts with nearly nothing.

I bet 03 and 04 we were still feeling the Savard effect with our scouts. Because it starts to go downhill from there.

05 he took Price, but Kopi was on the board and the team need was C. Its a good pick, but when we look back we could of addressed our needs at C. Was it a stretch because he went 11th? Sure but taking Price at 5 was a stretch. Now Price is a stud, but keep in mind that Rask went 21st, and Quick/Bishop went in the 3rd round. Someone who is the best could of seen this and taken Kopi and then picked up a goalie in the 2nd round. Who knows maybe Rask falls to the 2nd round with Price on the board.

Rest of the draft was the TT special of guys who play 300 games and then don't have much more of an NHL impact.

06 bust city. I mean you can hang your hat on Ryan white if you want another TT special.

07 TT hit it out of the park and then thats the end of it. Since then we have been running on Galley and Lek.

And even 03 and 04 he got lucky with the extra rounds to grab Streit and Halak. Kots a 50 point guy who played 400 games vs guys like Carter/Perry/Richards/Parise etc.. Waste a pick on Chipchura. Ya he got Emelin and Grabs had a decent career outside of Montreal.

And in the end TT really seems to be only able to draft Dmen. Thats where he had his most sucsess. 15/16 we will probably only see Juulseen, Serg and Mete making it. No forwards for a change.

You aren't winning anything in the NHL if you can't draft a 70-80 point forward.

 

[waffledave]

HFboards - evaluate player based on what he has done up to date and reading a bunch of pseudo-draft gurus and very limited viewing

Timmins & Management - evaluate/see/meet players for 2-3 years and project 4-5 years later using data supported by scientific and psychological profiling.

As Charley Brown would say - good grief

For sure, he knows better than us. That's why we get the secret picks like Lukas Vejdemo while nobody else has ever heard of them for some unknown reason.

 

[WinterLion]

We had 16 years to judge his work..... and his thinking.

His batting average is low.

Just curious, His batting average is low compared to who? What made you come to that decision?

 

[1909]

Just curious, His batting average is low compared to who? What made you come to that decision?

Just look around....

 

[WinterLion]

Just look around....

oh that's weak...