Treliving

4Flames

Registered User
Sep 2, 2015
142
6
Canada
Ah, the plus/minus argument.

Please, keep showing me how little you know about hockey
upload_2018-3-23_12-5-7.png

See anything worth a first and two seconds here?
 

The Gnome

Registered User
May 17, 2010
4,678
740
Calgary
I think the whole Hamonic trade should be viewed as we overpaid, but we did get a hell of a defensive dman. He's been one of our best players this year for sure. Unfortunately this team was a let down, making those traded picks look even worse.
 
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Lunatik

Normal is an illusion.
Oct 12, 2012
56,185
8,337
Padded Room
View attachment 106863
See anything worth a first and two seconds here?
I never commented on trade value, not once. A player who lives up to expectations is not a let down. It's really that simple, if you expected more, which I assume you did because of your moronic screen shots of stat lines, it's because you were clueless about the type of player Hamonic was. He isn't the guy that's going to put up sexy stats, he's the guy that works, hard, plays sound positionally, makes solid plays and helps your PK. I'm sorry that you lack the acumen to understand that.
 

4Flames

Registered User
Sep 2, 2015
142
6
Canada
I never commented on trade value, not once. A player who lives up to expectations is not a let down. It's really that simple, if you expected more, which I assume you did because of your moronic screen shots of stat lines, it's because you were clueless about the type of player Hamonic was. He isn't the guy that's going to put up sexy stats, he's the guy that works, hard, plays sound positionally, makes solid plays and helps your PK. I'm sorry that you lack the acumen to understand that.
You just completely ignored the fact that your precious defensive defenseman has bad advanced statistics. I personally believe that their shouldn't be anymore one-dimensional defensemen in the NHL anymore. You need to be able to move the puck and be solid defensively, and right now, Hamonic is barely one of those things.
 

Lunatik

Normal is an illusion.
Oct 12, 2012
56,185
8,337
Padded Room
You just completely ignored the fact that your precious defensive defenseman has bad advanced statistics. I personally believe that their shouldn't be anymore one-dimensional defensemen in the NHL anymore. You need to be able to move the puck and be solid defensively, and right now, Hamonic is barely one of those things.
If I need to explain why being a defensive defensemen won't give someoen glowing advanced stats... I'm not going to bother. [mod]
 

Flames Fanatic

Mediocre
Aug 14, 2008
13,329
2,888
Cochrane
Last time I checked, defensive defenseman aren't ****ing minus 5 on the season

Ah yes. The -5 defenseman on a team that has a goal differential of -22. Whose most common defense partner that he's played with the majority of the season is -16. Or Mikeal Backlund, the guy who finished 4th in the Selke vote last year, -17.

People have such short memories. Look at the value rental's got at the deadline, and then look at Hamonic's contract, and how much term we are getting from it.
 

Lunatik

Normal is an illusion.
Oct 12, 2012
56,185
8,337
Padded Room
Ah yes. The -5 defenseman on a team that has a goal differential of -22. Whose most common defense partner that he's played with the majority of the season is -16. Or Mikeal Backlund, the guy who finished 4th in the Selke vote last year, -17.

People have such short memories. Look at the value rental's got at the deadline, and then look at Hamonic's contract, and how much term we are getting from it.
I'm sorry FF but STATS
 
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Flameshomer

Likeaholic
Aug 26, 2010
3,830
1,039
Edmonton
1. Giordano
2. Hamilton
3. Hamonic
4. Kulak
5. Brodie
6. Stone

This is how our defensemen rank overall. In terms of defensive ability:

1. Giordano
2. Hamonic
3. Hamilton
4. Kulak
5. Stone
6. Brodie

In terms of playtime, for whatever reason:

1. Gio
2. Brodie
3. Hamonic
4. Hamilton

So I would say that our d issues could be fixed pretty easily, trade brodie for whatever we can acquire and get a coach who has an ounce of sense.
 

Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
46,442
14,717
Victoria
This is how our defensemen rank overall. In terms of defensive ability:

1. Giordano
2. Hamonic
3. Hamilton
4. Kulak
5. Stone
6. Brodie

I don't know about this. Brodie regularly defends one-on-one against the best players in the league and shuts them down. Where he has been an issue this season is with bad turnovers, IMO. His defensive play has actually developed leaps and bounds from when he first broke into the league.
 

DFF

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
22,275
6,525
Flames missed the playoffs because PP1 was awful outside of a pair of outlier games where Hamilton and Monahan had hat tricks.

Bennett does not play on PP1 and the performance of PP2 is virtually irrelevant given the minute splits. You might have a point if Bennett screwed up PP1 somehow but your fake #1C played on that unit, not Bennett.


I am confused, I thought you said Bennett is Hart contender calibre. He cant even beat out the "faked" 1C now?

What with all these excuses?
 

DFF

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
22,275
6,525
I don't know about this. Brodie regularly defends one-on-one against the best players in the league and shuts them down. Where he has been an issue this season is with bad turnovers, IMO. His defensive play has actually developed leaps and bounds from when he first broke into the league.

Any proof of this?

I do agree that he had plenty of brain farts
 

SKRusty

Napalm
Jan 20, 2016
2,611
1,062
Plus/Minus ... Love For Hartley ... Dumping Brodie 2 years after most here were calling for a Norris for him in the future.

Wow. I need to find some of those pharmaceuticals being passed out. How about we see if Turek will come out of retirement while we are at it.
 
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OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
16,133
7,107
2022 Cup to Calgary
Hamilton isn't on the ice for most of his mistakes, because he's in the penalty box while we have to watch Troy Brouwer and Mike Stone "defend". Brodie almost never takes penalties and he is an excellent pker.

If I had to choose, I choose Brodie every time. He's an elite defenseman when set loose. Hamilton is good too, and I think they'd be an amazing pair a la Keith-Seabrook and people fixate too much on mistakes because EVERY 20+ MINUTE D MAN IN THE NHL MAKES MISTAKES AND THEY END UP IN THE BACK OF THE NET. Then have Giordano-Hamonic take on a more defensive shutdown role a la Campbell-Hjalmarsson from the 2010 Blackhawks. it makes all kinds of sense.
 
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Dack

Registered User
Jun 16, 2014
3,911
3,544
I just did a wowy and well both are small sample sizes but I was surprised with the result.



On iceCF%FF%GF%HDCF%PDO
Together
1000+ mins
51.350.745.252.20.989
Brodie without Hamonic
240 mins
48.747.948.552.20.99
Hamonic without Brodie
160 mins
50.851.161.549.231.027
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I don't think Hamilton needs Gio either (he's obviously at his best playing with an elite D man but I don't think he needs a baby sitter). You can put him with any of the LDs and find slightly lower levels of success he's killed it with both Brodie and Kulak over very small sample sizes the past two years.
 
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Body Checker

Registered User
Aug 11, 2005
3,405
1,072
I’ve watched some of the bruins-lightning and kings-ducks games last few nights and I dunno, just doesn’t seem like we are or will anytime soon be at that level. I’ll be patient through next season but I don’t know how we can get to that level with trading 8-9 top 90 picks in last three years.
 

Kranix

Deranged Homer
Jun 27, 2012
18,122
16,154
I’ve watched some of the bruins-lightning and kings-ducks games last few nights and I dunno, just doesn’t seem like we are or will anytime soon be at that level. I’ll be patient through next season but I don’t know how we can get to that level with trading 8-9 top 90 picks in last three years.
A coach who knows what he's doing could get more out of the bottom 9. Not much more though. More quality depth needed.
 
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