GDT: Traverse City Prospects Tournament

[SaskCanesFan]

Yep. If you can see it...

Svechnikov just looks so nonchalant, "yeah I'm gonna just take this around you and score now thanks."

I can't wait to see him against more serious competition when the stakes are higher

 

[tarheelhockey]

They’re getting torched, 5-2 after two periods. Helvig hasn’t been bad per se, but he’s looking human and maybe a little unsteady as Dallas pours it on.

They’re really suffering from having such an invite-heavy defense. Spending a ton of time in their own zone, in situations where the puck should have been cleared but instead was not controlled in time or turned over.

It’s been a tough game for Bean because we hardly have the puck. He’s shifty as always but he needs the puck to make a difference. He got burnt pretty badly on one of the Stars goals, in a situation where he was slow to realize the danger of a counterattack and couldn’t skate his way back into position.

Necas has been showing some holes in his game. He had an unforced turnover in his own end, coasted on the backcheck in a way that gave him a front-row seat for a Dallas rebound goal, and he’s starting to do the look-at-the-ceiling frustration thing offensively. Made up for it with a couple of good offensive shifts, but he’s definitely off his game right now.

Svechnikov is doing the same thing he’s done all tournament, three nothingburger shifts followed by a great one. That goal highlighted something I love about his game — he’s constantly in motion. He does those big arcing circles into the high-danger areas, and has the hockey sense to time his arrival to the puck. In this case it gave him the forward momentum to walk right around a guy who had stopped in front of the net.

Gauthier’s giving good effort but producing little. Roy is still dialed in and looks ok — my opinion of him has risen in this tournament. I like Geekie’s game today even though he’s still only looking average in this group. Mattheos has faded a lot. Henman just isn’t good enough to play with these guys. The invitees are looking a little chippier in this game, maybe carryover from yesterday.

 

[MrHeiskanen]

Surprised we are doing so good today without our 1D, 1C and 1G.

But, that is the nature of these prospect tournaments with rosters thrown together.

 

[bleedgreen]

Necas was rough today, you could tell he was frustrated. Also this was the third time since we drafted him I think I’ve seen him eat it into the end boards after driving the net with little to no assistance from a defender.

 

[CandyCanes]

They’re getting torched, 5-2 after two periods. Helvig hasn’t been bad per se, but he’s looking human and maybe a little unsteady as Dallas pours it on.

I thought I read that the camp invite goalie got the start today?

Edit:

I didn't watch the game. Did he get pulled and Helvig came in? Or you just getting guys mixed up?

 

[Breakdowns]

Thanks for the updates on the games guys, for someone who is not able to watch them it's very nice to see some interesting observations from them!

 

[tarheelhockey]

I thought I read that the camp invite goalie got the start today?

Edit:

I didn't watch the game. Did he get pulled and Helvig came in? Or you just getting guys mixed up?

Ahhh that explains it. He wasn’t terrible or anything, but he was definitely less solid than Helvig.

 

[The Faulker 27]

Yep. If you can see it...

He made that look effortless, yet that was so far from an effortless goal.

 

[LostInaLostWorld]

They’re getting torched, 5-2 after two periods. Helvig hasn’t been bad per se, but he’s looking human and maybe a little unsteady as Dallas pours it on.

I believe that Culina guy was in net today.

 

[Unsustainable]

Necas and Svechnikov are going to be studs.

 

[spockBokk]

Man, this looks bad for Zadina...

 

[vorbis]

there go those blue jackets

 

[bleedgreen]

He hurt his hand. That sucks. Hopefully minor because I was looking forward to watching he and Svech throughout the year.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Jesus, that’s such a stupid thing. 6th overall draft pick who hasn’t even played a game yet, getting hit like that in a glorified scrimmage. Can you imagine if it had actually caught him in the head?

Throwing that hit was Justin Wade, an undrafted camp invitee who turns 25 this season.

 

[AD Skinner]

The blue jackets are content to play goon tough guy crap instead of trying to win at the NHL level and apparently the prospect level too. I definitely think they should face repercussions for doing it with kids who aren't on pro rosters and some of whom have to pay their own way to be there.

 

[GoldiFox]

Jesus, that’s such a stupid thing. 6th overall draft pick who hasn’t even played a game yet, getting hit like that in a glorified scrimmage. Can you imagine if it had actually caught him in the head?

Throwing that hit was Justin Wade, an undrafted camp invitee who turns 25 this season.

25 year old nothingburger headhunting recent top-10 NHL draft picks.

Columbus should be banned from the tournament for picking camp invites that are clearly just there to hurt people and then telling them to go out there and hurt people.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I only saw the gif from my phone, but although it was high, it looked like he stopped his strides before hitting Zadina, got his shoulders in front of Zadina before hitting him, and targeted his chest and didn't hit his head. What was wrong with the hit? Maybe one could argue charging or that it was a tad late, although that's debatable. If Zadina is in the same spot in the NHL, he's going to get hit the same way countless times. If he DID hit him in the head, then yeah, it's a bad hit, but it didn't look that way to me and it looks like Zadina's wrist is what got hurt (not majorly).

I do get the part about this is a nothing tournament so why risk a top prospect, but this isn't an all-star game where hitting is frowned upon.

 

[GoldiFox]

I classify headhunting as a player generally prowling around the ice looking for massive hits. Not a player specifically looking to target the head. As in the player’s role on the team is “headhunter”. Easy to identify the approach when you see a video like the one above. That scrub is just cruising the soft offensive lanes looking to blow someone up. Columbus was taking this approach as a team.

Personally I think the game is a lot better off removing this aspect/mindset entirely. Just like the NFL with headhunting defenseless receivers. I heard repeatedly on Sunday “That WR would have been absolutely destroyed 10 years ago making that catch.” I much prefer the present rule. It’s possible to play effective defense in both the NFL and NHL without taking a guy off on a stretcher every so often.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I only saw the gif from my phone, but although it was high, it looked like he stopped his strides before hitting Zadina, got his shoulders in front of Zadina before hitting him, and targeted his chest and didn't hit his head. What was wrong with the hit? Maybe one could argue charging or that it was a tad late, although that's debatable. If Zadina is in the same spot in the NHL, he's going to get hit the same way countless times. If he DID hit him in the head, then yeah, it's a bad hit, but it didn't look that way to me and it looks like Zadina's wrist is what got hurt (not majorly).

I do get the part about this is a nothing tournament so why risk a top prospect, but this isn't an all-star game where hitting is frowned upon.

I think the issue is that there was no tactical purpose for the hit. Zadina was obviously shooting, there was no question the puck was headed toward the net. The only reason to follow through on a hit there was to “get him” for being vulnerable for a split-second.

This tournament doesn’t provide enough development or evaluation value to be worth exposing good players to that kind of abuse. It’s not like this was an NHL vet on a PTO trying to make an impression... the problem is the presence of camp invitees, super-long-shots who are more likely to end up in the ECHL who have nothing to lose and little to offer. Having guys like that just openly taking runs at top-10 draft picks is a bit much. I have 0% interest in seeing a young superstar lying face-down on the ice in an exhibition game with 40 people in the stands.

I’d be in favor of having these tournaments officially organized under the NHL. The fan experience would probably be higher quality to begin with, and it would provide some true oversight of players/coaches/organizations who misbehave. Incidentally it would also allow the league to place the tournaments strategically to help engage non-NHL hockey communities (whether that means throwing a bone to small hockey towns like TC, or maybe laying groundwork for an expansion market like Seattle, or giving Arizona something to look forward to after a hard year). I think it would make sense on all levels, but the reckless hits are adding some urgency to get things changed.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think the issue is that there was no tactical purpose for the hit. Zadina was obviously shooting, there was no question the puck was headed toward the net. The only reason to follow through on a hit there was to “get him” for being vulnerable for a split-second.

I do think there is a tactical purpose for the hit. The tactical purpose is to make it painful if a guy wants to get in that area and take a shot. Make a guy think twice, make him potentially less aggressive, get him off his game, etc.. People may not "like" that as a tactical purpose, but it definitely is one. In the NHL, if a guy wants to go to the scoring areas, he's often going to pay a price. That's the tactical purpose. It's why Skinner got pounded on time and time again and sometimes it worked.

This tournament doesn’t provide enough development or evaluation value to be worth exposing good players to that kind of abuse.

That's fair. Once a team commits to play though, they are doing so with the understanding that their players are going to get hit and potentially hurt and that there are going to be players that are trying to make a name for themselves and get a contract.

I’d be in favor of having these tournaments officially organized under the NHL. The fan experience would probably be higher quality to begin with, and it would provide some true oversight of players/coaches/organizations who misbehave. Incidentally it would also allow the league to place the tournaments strategically to help engage non-NHL hockey communities (whether that means throwing a bone to small hockey towns like TC, or maybe laying groundwork for an expansion market like Seattle, or giving Arizona something to look forward to after a hard year). I

I'd be for that.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I do think there is a tactical purpose for the hit. The tactical purpose is to make it painful if a guy wants to get in that area and take a shot. Make a guy think twice, make him potentially less aggressive, get him off his game, etc.. People may not "like" that as a tactical purpose, but it definitely is one. In the NHL, if a guy wants to go to the scoring areas, he's often going to pay a price. That's the tactical purpose. It's why Skinner got pounded on time and time again and sometimes it worked.

That makes sense in a playoff series or even a regular season game, where you’re sending messages and attrition is a factor in your ability to beat down an opponent. Why do it during an exhibition game? Both teams are already dissolved and will never be re-assembled, and 90% of the players will never step on the same ice as Zadina again.

I get that this is “part of hockey” in a sense, but understanding game context is also important in playing at a high level. You wouldn’t see a guy do this during an intersquad scrimmage or an all star game, because it’s understood that the game outcome is secondary to the actual purpose of those games. If these little summer prospect tourneys are going to be a situation where players are trying to break their opponents physically and win an all costs, I’d rather keep our guys the hell out of it and send an entire team of PTOs.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

That makes sense in a playoff series or even a regular season game, where you’re sending messages and attrition is a factor in your ability to beat down an opponent. Why do it during an exhibition game? Both teams are already dissolved and will never be re-assembled, and 90% of the players will never step on the same ice as Zadina again.

I think you are downplaying how this tournament is viewed for some of these invites. I think for a guy like that, this IS his playoffs and his chance to make a name and hopefully get a camp invite and get a contract. Yeah, for guys like Zadina, Svech, Necas, etc....this is might just an exhibition, but not for those guys. IMO, guys like him are trying to hit players hard in an attempt to alter the game at hand. Whether that be to pump up their team or to intimidate the other team, that's the tactical purpose. It seemed to have worked as well.

I get that this is “part of hockey” in a sense, but understanding game context is also important in playing at a high level. You wouldn’t see a guy do this during an intersquad scrimmage or an all star game, because it’s understood that the game outcome is secondary to the actual purpose of those games. If these little summer prospect tourneys are going to be a situation where players are trying to break their opponents physically and win an all costs, I’d rather keep our guys the hell out of it and send an entire team of PTOs.

This isn't an intrasquad scrimmage or all star game though. Maybe to us fans it is. And maybe, like I said above, to guys like Necas, Svech, Zadina, etc.. it is, but I don't think most of the players view it that way.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

You wouldn’t see a guy do this during an intersquad scrimmage or an all star game, because it’s understood that the game outcome is secondary to the actual purpose of those games.

I don't blame the player. To this guy, this may be the closest to a "championship" game that he ever gets. It's an aggressive hit, and it's mostly a clean hit. It's not the play that's at issue; it's the players and the stakes.

If these little summer prospect tourneys are going to be a situation where players are trying to break their opponents physically and win an all costs, I’d rather keep our guys the hell out of it and send an entire team of PTOs.

Yup. I'm glad we were only seeing Svech move at half-speed most of the time. Kinda get the sense that he's smarter than to risk injury for a glorified scrimmage. Good.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I think you are downplaying how this tournament is viewed for some of these invites. I think for a guy like that, this IS his playoffs and his chance to make a name and hopefully get a camp invite and get a contract. Yeah, for guys like Zadina, Svech, Necas, etc....this is might just an exhibition, but not for those guys. IMO, guys like him are trying to hit players hard in an attempt to alter the game at hand. Whether that be to pump up their team or to intimidate the other team, that's the tactical purpose. It seemed to have worked as well.

This isn't an intrasquad scrimmage or all star game though. Maybe to us fans it is. And maybe, like I said above, to guys like Necas, Svech, Zadina, etc.. it is, but I don't think most of the players view it that way.

The mix of stars and invites is exactly the issue I have with this environment.

Columbus in particular brought 13 invitees (we had 7) plus I believe 5 undrafted signees. It was very obvious from the get-go in our game against them that their approach was to just attack everyone constantly, knowing that in this environment it would mean constant turnovers by lower-skilled invitees who had no idea where to pass the puck and little ability to skate out of trouble. That approach is of course effective for winning games (which Columbus did, with the lowest-pedigree group of players), and what do they care if some other team’s top prospect gets hurt? What do they even care if their invitees get hurt?

To me, that’s an environment that just doesn’t work for prospect development and evaluation. I’m not interested in knowing which players can dipsy-doodle around reckless forechecking by ECHL talent, nor do I care at all whether we win this tournament (have we won it before? I feel like we did ok once or twice). I want to see the prospects skating in real-game-like conditions, learning how to use their linemates, gelling together, backchecking hard, and developing pro instincts. If that’s not going to happen at these rookie tournaments, or if it’s happening in a really minimal way against a background of injuries to top players, then there’s just no point to doing it. I’d rather just call them back to Raleigh for another week of training and development, like Florida did this year, and send a literal team of invitees to Traverse to make a nominal appearance and maybe uncover a surprise or two.

 

[Joe McGrath]

The mix of stars and invites is exactly the issue I have with this environment.

Columbus in particular brought 13 invitees (we had 7) plus I believe 5 undrafted signees. It was very obvious from the get-go in our game against them that their approach was to just attack everyone constantly, knowing that in this environment it would mean constant turnovers by lower-skilled invitees who had no idea where to pass the puck and little ability to skate out of trouble. That approach is of course effective for winning games (which Columbus did, with the lowest-pedigree group of players), and what do they care if some other team’s top prospect gets hurt? What do they even care if their invitees get hurt?

To me, that’s an environment that just doesn’t work for prospect development and evaluation. I’m not interested in knowing which players can dipsy-doodle around reckless forechecking by ECHL talent, nor do I care at all whether we win this tournament (have we won it before? I feel like we did ok once or twice). I want to see the prospects skating in real-game-like conditions, learning how to use their linemates, gelling together, backchecking hard, and developing pro instincts. If that’s not going to happen at these rookie tournaments, or if it’s happening in a really minimal way against a background of injuries to top players, then there’s just no point to doing it. I’d rather just call them back to Raleigh for another week of training and development, like Florida did this year, and send a literal team of invitees to Traverse to make a nominal appearance and maybe uncover a surprise or two.

I wonder if it would be more beneficial for teams to set up joint practices for the prospects with a controlled scrimmage like in the NFL.